# Dopers, are we all one? Are we the universe experiencing itself subjectively? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [November 13, 2012, 4:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dopers-are-we-all-one-are-we-the-universe-experiencing-itself-subjectively/640894 "2012-11-13T16:02:38Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 10\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Luk3112](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/a9adbd/32.png) [@Luk3112](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Luk3112)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2012, 2:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dopers-are-we-all-one-are-we-the-universe-experiencing-itself-subjectively/640894/21 "2012-11-14T14:18:06Z")
> [@Grey](#): > > Well lets’ give this way more attention than it deserves. > Law of Attraction (the stupid one) : By thinking consistently about a specific outcome that specific outcome will occur. Basically you can’t quantify the consistency and you can’t determine the outcomes align with original intent. The only evidence offered up is anecdotal in nature and skewed by selection bias. You can’t utilize the model to predict outcomes, making the “theory” unfalsifiable. So basically it is feel good crap, or nonsense if you’re feeling particularly delicate today. > > Timewave zero is gibberish. Have you read this piece from the Wikipedia page on McKenna? Basically, things get more integrated, and consequently novel, as the universe is drawn to its end point. Somehow, by some agent, in some way, at some time though around 2012 is the typical date given. > > Given spacetime expansion and basic entropy, thing will not get more connected and so will not become more novel and so will not coalesce at the autopoietic lapis at the end of time. > > For kicks go read [Fashionable Nonsense](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fashionable_Nonsense). Think of it as an innoculation. Thanks, dunno why everyone acts so angry about it. Fair enough, never believed it in the first place just showed a great interest. Thought I just didn’t understand it but now you’ve confirmed its gibberish. You’ve convinced me! ---
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2012, 2:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dopers-are-we-all-one-are-we-the-universe-experiencing-itself-subjectively/640894/22 "2012-11-14T14:40:39Z")
> [@Luk3112](#): > > fool Do not call engage in name-calling of other posters outside The BBQ Pit. > [@Luk3112](#): > > its the dope police! While zoid was technically out of line for “junior modding,” mentioning that you were out of line while pointing out that there was a place for you to engage in that behavior was done in a civil fashion. (Particularly so since zoid was the target of your rule breaking.) Knock it off. [/Moderating] ---
**Author:** ![TriPolar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tripolar/32/3008_2.png) [@TriPolar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TriPolar)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2012, 2:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dopers-are-we-all-one-are-we-the-universe-experiencing-itself-subjectively/640894/23 "2012-11-14T14:41:19Z")
Assuming we have a subconcious beyond our ability to examine in detail then it’s entirely possible that I, you, we, are simply making the universe the way it is based on our thoughts, positive, negative, or otherwise. And such a universe is indistinquishable from the one that unfolds randomly independently of our thoughts, and was created last Thursday. ---
**Author:** ![Grey](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/b782af/32.png) [@Grey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Grey)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2012, 2:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dopers-are-we-all-one-are-we-the-universe-experiencing-itself-subjectively/640894/24 "2012-11-14T14:45:11Z")
Well you can assume anything, it doesn’t necessarily make it so. ---
**Author:** ![Esox\_Lucius](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/848f3c/32.png) [@Esox\_Lucius](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Esox_Lucius)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2012, 5:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dopers-are-we-all-one-are-we-the-universe-experiencing-itself-subjectively/640894/25 "2012-11-14T17:23:24Z")
> [@Der\_Trihs](#): > > Aha! That explains those _Six Million Dollar Man_ noises I’ve been making lately. Lucky you. The best I can do now is rusty, creaking noises. Positive energy doesn’t seem to stop the ageing process.☹ > [@Kobal2](#): > > I dunno, man. I haven’t seen a war fought over solar power yet. That’s because solar power can’t get you a pony for your birthday.😉 ---
**Author:** ![zoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/zoid/32/336_2.png) [@zoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/zoid)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2012, 9:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dopers-are-we-all-one-are-we-the-universe-experiencing-itself-subjectively/640894/26 "2012-11-14T21:29:07Z")
> [@tomndebb](#): > > Do not call engage in name-calling of other posters outside The BBQ Pit. > > While zoid was technically out of line for “junior modding,” mentioning that you were out of line while pointing out that there was a place for you to engage in that behavior was done in a civil fashion. (Particularly so since zoid was the target of your rule breaking.) > > Knock it off. > > [/Moderating] Sorry, wasn’t my intention to mod. I thought I was helping by pointing in the right direction to the pit. ---
**Author:** ![cougar58](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f07891/32.png) [@cougar58](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cougar58)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2012, 1:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dopers-are-we-all-one-are-we-the-universe-experiencing-itself-subjectively/640894/27 "2012-11-15T01:58:55Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > We are stardust. No, really, we are. So saith Karen Carpenter ---
**Author:** ![Wesley\_Clark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wesley_clark/32/20581_2.png) [@Wesley\_Clark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wesley_Clark)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2012, 2:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dopers-are-we-all-one-are-we-the-universe-experiencing-itself-subjectively/640894/28 "2012-11-15T02:15:57Z")
On the whole anything that strays from materialism, liberalism and/or agnosticism will get ridiculed here. So be prepared for that (which to be fair I do that too). As far as the theory, I don’t know. Our consciousness rises from material atoms which were created in solar fusion reactions about 5-10 billion years ago. But consciousness is such an insignificant aspect of existence. There are 200+ billion galaxies, and ours has 200+ billion stars. This star has one planet with life. The vast vast majority of life on this planet is not capable of subjective consciousness, and despite the fact that life is 3.8 billion years old subjective consciousness is probably 15 million years or newer (I have no idea). So we are a microscopic aspect of a microscopic aspect of a microscopic aspect of existence. That is like believing the purpose of your physical body is for the agenda of one molecule in one bacteria in your digestive system. We are a tiny aspect of this universe. As far as are we all one, yeah. We all arise from the same universe. I tend to subscribe to the spiritual aspect of that too, but I’ll find out when I die. ---
**Author:** ![Luk3112](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/a9adbd/32.png) [@Luk3112](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Luk3112)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2012, 8:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dopers-are-we-all-one-are-we-the-universe-experiencing-itself-subjectively/640894/29 "2012-11-15T08:42:01Z")
> [@Wesley\_Clark](#): > > As far as are we all one, yeah. We all arise from the same universe. I tend to subscribe to the spiritual aspect of that too, but I’ll find out when I die. Basically my outlook. ---
**Author:** ![Grey](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/b782af/32.png) [@Grey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Grey)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2012, 2:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dopers-are-we-all-one-are-we-the-universe-experiencing-itself-subjectively/640894/30 "2012-11-15T14:33:59Z")
“I’M SIGNIFICANT!..screamed the dust speck.” -Calvin [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dopers-are-we-all-one-are-we-the-universe-experiencing-itself-subjectively/640894.md?page=1)