# Dopers weigh in: What did/does the Prince of Wales see in Camilla Parker-Bowles? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [June 27, 2003, 6:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dopers-weigh-in-what-did-does-the-prince-of-wales-see-in-camilla-parker-bowles/184715 "2003-06-27T06:41:33Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![fortytwo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/f9ae1b/32.png) [@fortytwo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/fortytwo)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2003, 9:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dopers-weigh-in-what-did-does-the-prince-of-wales-see-in-camilla-parker-bowles/184715/21 "2003-06-27T21:16:49Z")
Well, it’s already been said before, but I also believe Camilla doesn’t photograph too well. I can’t vouch for that as I don’t move in the same circles as she does. Charles was a fool ( a not unusual trait in the royal family) not to have married her years ago before Diana came on the scene. Camilla seems a very discrete and loyal companion to Charles. V ---
**Author:** ![Padmaraga](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/f07891/32.png) [@Padmaraga](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Padmaraga)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2003, 10:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dopers-weigh-in-what-did-does-the-prince-of-wales-see-in-camilla-parker-bowles/184715/22 "2003-06-27T22:15:50Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by curly chick \* > \*\*I’d imagine that if they were ever to get married, she would not be called Queen Camilla, always supposing Charles _ever_ accedes the throne ~snip~ But the Royal family can make up whatever title they like - eg: The Queen Mother - and the spin doctors will no doubt already have contingency plans. \*\* Wait a sec - the Royal family doesn’t just “make up whatever title they like” - they are **very** tradition-driven. The title “Queen Mother” has a specific meaning, it isn’t just thrown around to whomever. It is the title of the mother of the current monarch. Camilla isn’t Charles’ mother (I don’t know/care what role-playing games they may play in private, she’s **not** ), so she can’t be “Queen Mother”. There **is** a precedent in history for monarchs marrying (secretly) someone considered beneath them in status or otherwise unsuitable for official consort status (for instance, a divorcée) - it’s called a **morganatic** marriage/wife. I wouldn’t be surprised at all if they have already secretly married in this way, especially since he has no need of any more legal heirs. Anyway, if they make each other happy, who cares what anyone else thinks (now that it’s no longer adultery, anyway)? She’s not that bad looking, although her teeth/mouth are unpleasant looking by some (ok, my) standards. ---
**Author:** ![Annie-Xmas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ecc23a/32.png) [@Annie-Xmas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Annie-Xmas)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2003, 1:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dopers-weigh-in-what-did-does-the-prince-of-wales-see-in-camilla-parker-bowles/184715/23 "2003-06-28T13:07:13Z")
As someone said when Andrew Lloyd Webber ditched Sarah Brightman for Madeline Gurdon: She’s one of those horsey-faced woman who drive men wild. Maybe it’s just a British thing. ---
**Author:** ![Baker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/bb73d2/32.png) [@Baker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Baker)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2003, 11:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dopers-weigh-in-what-did-does-the-prince-of-wales-see-in-camilla-parker-bowles/184715/24 "2003-06-28T23:59:03Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Padmaraga \* > \*\*There **is** a precedent in history for monarchs marrying (secretly) someone considered beneath them in status or otherwise unsuitable for official consort status (for instance, a divorcée) - it’s called a **morganatic** marriage/wife. I wouldn’t be surprised at all if they have already secretly married in this way, especially since he has no need of any more legal heirs. \*\* I remember watching a show about the assasination of the Archduke Franz Ferdinand, which event is said to have precipitated WWI. He and his wife(I think her name was Sophie) were joined in a morganatic union. There was a photograph of their funeral biers, side by side, and hers had to be shorter than his because she was lower in rank. Ugh. ---
**Author:** ![Eilsel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/c68b51/32.png) [@Eilsel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eilsel)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2003, 12:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dopers-weigh-in-what-did-does-the-prince-of-wales-see-in-camilla-parker-bowles/184715/25 "2003-06-29T00:56:26Z")
He thinks she has DBL’s. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2003, 2:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dopers-weigh-in-what-did-does-the-prince-of-wales-see-in-camilla-parker-bowles/184715/26 "2003-06-29T02:35:50Z")
A pulse. ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2003, 8:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dopers-weigh-in-what-did-does-the-prince-of-wales-see-in-camilla-parker-bowles/184715/27 "2003-06-29T20:08:17Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Baker \* > \*\*I remember watching a show about the assasination of the Archduke Franz Ferdinand, which event is said to have precipitated WWI. He and his wife(I think her name was Sophie) were joined in a morganatic union. There was a photograph of their funeral biers, side by side, and hers had to be shorter than his because she was lower in rank. Ugh. \*\* Not only that, while living-she couldn’t walk beside him in official parades and social functions, at dinner, Sophie (yes, that was her name) was placed much further down the table. Franz Ferdinand had to open the balls with a lady of appropriate rank-not his wife (meaning, lead the first dance), when they were announced into a room, only one door would be open, rather than both double doors, etc. It was a major insult. ---
**Author:** ![Pixelle](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ad7895/32.png) [@Pixelle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pixelle)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2003, 2:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dopers-weigh-in-what-did-does-the-prince-of-wales-see-in-camilla-parker-bowles/184715/28 "2003-06-30T02:41:16Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by bordelond \* > \*\*Until just now, I didn’t really know what Camilla Parker-Bowles looked like. She is spoken of as though she is frighteningly ugly, so I was expecting the worst. \*\* It’s ridiculous isn’t it? I am no fan of the monarchy but the public’s reaction to the supposed ugliness of Camilla P-Bowles and indeed Sarah Ferguson for that matter, is rather sad and superficial. I’m just glad I don’t have to wake up in the morning and see headlines in newspapers about how ugly or overweight I am. It must be so hurtful, especially when you then have to go out and smile at the public knowing they think that way about you. ---
**Author:** ![curly\_chick](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/7ba0ec/32.png) [@curly\_chick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/curly_chick)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2003, 8:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dopers-weigh-in-what-did-does-the-prince-of-wales-see-in-camilla-parker-bowles/184715/29 "2003-06-30T08:29:17Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Padmaraga \* > \*\*Wait a sec - the Royal family doesn’t just “make up whatever title they like” - they are **very** tradition-driven. The title “Queen Mother” has a specific meaning, it isn’t just thrown around to whomever. It is the title of the mother of the current monarch. Camilla isn’t Charles’ mother (I don’t know/care what role-playing games they may play in private, she’s **not** ), so she can’t be “Queen Mother”. > \*\* When George VI was on the throne, his wife was the Queen. When he died, his daughter, Elizabeth became the Queen, who is the lady on the throne now, so the title of Queen Mother was made up for _her_ mother. That’s what I’m saying. When George VI came to the throne, his mother, Queen Mary was still alive, but she wasn’t called the King Mother, was she? No. The only other Queen in modern times was Queen Victoria and her mother was the Duchess of Kent, never the Queen Mother. The only Queen Mother there has ever been in modern times was the relict of George VI and the title was made up for her. ---
**Author:** ![Baker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/bb73d2/32.png) [@Baker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Baker)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2003, 10:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dopers-weigh-in-what-did-does-the-prince-of-wales-see-in-camilla-parker-bowles/184715/30 "2003-06-30T10:06:18Z")
Got to admit I’m no expert on titles here, but the reason Queen Victoria’s mother was never titled Queen Mother was because she was never a queen, which is also required to get the QM designation. Victoria inherited the throne from her uncle, William IV. Her father was a younger brother of William, and had already died, so the throne passed to his daughter Vicky. She did have male cousins but was ahead of them in the line of sucession because _their_ fathers were yet younger brother of William. Also, there were two other Queens Mother in this century alone. There was Alexandra, mother of George V, who had been the Queen of Edward VII. She was QM from 1910 to 1925. Then there was Mary, mother of George VI, the Queen of George V, who was QM from 1936 to 1953. There had to have been a very brief period in 1953 when there were two women who were wives of former monarchs, because Mary was still alive when her son George VI died. There was a famous photograph titled “The Three Queens” which showed the new young queen Elizabeth, her just widowed mother Elizabeth, and the aged Mary, all in deep mourning clothes, veils and all. ---
**Author:** ![curly\_chick](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/7ba0ec/32.png) [@curly\_chick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/curly_chick)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2003, 10:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dopers-weigh-in-what-did-does-the-prince-of-wales-see-in-camilla-parker-bowles/184715/31 "2003-06-30T10:23:46Z")
I stand corrected. Thanks for filling me in I now see that to be called the Queen Mother, you have to have been the Queen, or consort of a reigning King and the mother of the current monarch. So, if the Queen dies before the Duke of Edinburgh, will he also get a new title? He is not the King, so he can’t be the King Father, even though he will be the father of the King, providing Charles outlives his mother. ---
**Author:** ![Baker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/bb73d2/32.png) [@Baker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Baker)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2003, 10:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dopers-weigh-in-what-did-does-the-prince-of-wales-see-in-camilla-parker-bowles/184715/32 "2003-06-30T10:29:01Z")
I looked it up. Call me anal about these things. It turns out there can’t be two QM’s at the same time, so when George VI died the title of Queen Mother passed to his widow, Elizabeth, and she became _H.M. Elizabeth, the Queen Mother_. His mother Mary became _H.M. Mary, the Dowager Queen Mother_. Mary did not live to see her granddaughter Elizabeth be crowned, as she died in March of 1953, and Elizabeth, although already queen on the death of her father in 1952, was not crowned until September of 1953. ---
**Author:** ![elfje](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/e19b73/32.png) [@elfje](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elfje)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2003, 10:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dopers-weigh-in-what-did-does-the-prince-of-wales-see-in-camilla-parker-bowles/184715/33 "2003-06-30T10:34:34Z")
well, Charles fancied Camilla when he was waaaaaay younger, but did not have the guts to ask her, and then his friend asked her to marry him. Which she did as she didn’t think Charles was ever going to pop the question. She wasn’t good breeding stock, you see. Which Diana was. So he asked Diana. Thing is, Camilla understands him, Diana never did. Charles is a bit of a strange guy, he’s very insecure and shy, but arrogant aswell. If he feels attacked, in any way, the arrogant barrier comes up. Diana was never interested in what he did. She was 19, a child, compared to him. He needed his Camilla, who made him laugh, understood him, supported him, liked him. That’s what he sees in her. She’s his soulmate. The woman he wants to spend the rest of his life with. I say, let him. It’s not up to us to decide whom royalty can date. ---
**Author:** ![Caricci](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/85f322/32.png) [@Caricci](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Caricci)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2003, 1:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dopers-weigh-in-what-did-does-the-prince-of-wales-see-in-camilla-parker-bowles/184715/34 "2003-06-30T13:52:25Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by elfje \* > \*\*. She wasn’t good breeding stock, you see. Which Diana was. \*\* Why is that? ---
**Author:** ![Eilsel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/c68b51/32.png) [@Eilsel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eilsel)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2003, 1:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dopers-weigh-in-what-did-does-the-prince-of-wales-see-in-camilla-parker-bowles/184715/35 "2003-06-30T13:55:23Z")
Well just LOOK at her. lol _ahem_ ---
**Author:** ![nicky](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/f0a364/32.png) [@nicky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/nicky)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2003, 1:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dopers-weigh-in-what-did-does-the-prince-of-wales-see-in-camilla-parker-bowles/184715/36 "2003-06-30T13:55:26Z")
Camilla takes it up the arse ---
**Author:** ![Eilsel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/c68b51/32.png) [@Eilsel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eilsel)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2003, 1:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dopers-weigh-in-what-did-does-the-prince-of-wales-see-in-camilla-parker-bowles/184715/37 "2003-06-30T13:57:09Z")
ew ew ew ---
**Author:** ![Oreo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/c57346/32.png) [@Oreo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Oreo)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2003, 2:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dopers-weigh-in-what-did-does-the-prince-of-wales-see-in-camilla-parker-bowles/184715/38 "2003-06-30T14:01:52Z")
Maybe I just dreamed this, but I could swear I heard/read somewhere that Camilla is a Catholic, and that this was one of the major barriers to Charles marrying her when they were young. Can anyone confirm/deny? ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2003, 7:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dopers-weigh-in-what-did-does-the-prince-of-wales-see-in-camilla-parker-bowles/184715/39 "2003-06-30T19:36:02Z")
I’ve never heard of her being a Catholic. Yes, Queen Mary, Queen Elizabeth (the late Queen Mum) and Queen Elizabeth II were all alive at one point. Just like in Queen Victoria’s last days, there were living at that time, FOUR future monarchs after her-her son, King Edward VII, his son, King George V, and his two sons, who would be King Edward VIII and King George VI. In fact, there are pictures of her with her son, Bertie (Edward VII), the future George V and his son, the future Duke of Windsor, as a baby on Queen Victoria’s lap. As a small child, he and his siblings and cousins called her “Gangan” and would pull her around in her wheelchair. (Or ask a servant to do it, as obviously, it was too heavy for them!) ---
**Author:** ![rocking\_chair](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rocking_chair/32/2918_2.png) [@rocking\_chair](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rocking_chair)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2003, 2:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dopers-weigh-in-what-did-does-the-prince-of-wales-see-in-camilla-parker-bowles/184715/40 "2003-07-01T02:18:06Z")
in the “queen mother” vein, the current queen and her mum share the same name. having two queen elizabeths is a bit confusing. since elizabeth decided to become qeii, mum got a “nickname” for common usage. that way newspapers and the average nigel on the street would know which eliz. was being discussed, regina or dowager. queen mum was not a reigning queen so she didn’t get numbers after her name. if one had the honour of announcing them at some sort of funtion, it would be : her majesty the queen (for qeii) and her majesty queen elizabeth (for mum). from that, you can see where if you didn’t know how important “the” is in a title, you could be confused on which is which. just another cautionary tale on the dangers of naming your child after you. on the topic of camilla, i think charles was daft not marrying her way back when… and william should take heed. also the odds of camilla having a matching name daughter in law would be rather long. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dopers-weigh-in-what-did-does-the-prince-of-wales-see-in-camilla-parker-bowles/184715.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dopers-weigh-in-what-did-does-the-prince-of-wales-see-in-camilla-parker-bowles/184715.md?page=3)