# DopeZine vol. 1: The Long Bust **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [June 2, 2022, 12:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dopezine-vol-1-the-long-bust/965536 "2022-06-02T00:08:07Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 5\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Broomstick](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/broomstick/32/246_2.png) [@Broomstick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Broomstick)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2022, 9:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dopezine-vol-1-the-long-bust/965536/21 "2022-06-06T21:37:39Z")
What would you suggest as a solution? Now, I am not inherently opposed to someone of later age getting into politics, the issue I see is with _entrenched_ politicians. People in power for half a century or more, as a rough description. Or at least moving around - spending a decade in the House, then the Senate, then doing something else in government, and so on. If it were only an occasional person doing this, staying in one job for 50 or 60 years, it wouldn’t be so bad, and probably in the late 1700’s when the constitution was drawn up there just weren’t that many people living into their 70’s or longer so it was never an issue, but more and more people are capable of being parked in Congress for most of a century. I’m not sure that’s really healthy for our government long term. ---
**Author:** ![Exapno\_Mapcase](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/exapno_mapcase/32/1051_2.png) [@Exapno\_Mapcase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Exapno_Mapcase)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2022, 10:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dopezine-vol-1-the-long-bust/965536/22 "2022-06-06T22:09:43Z")
Of the 435 members of the [House](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seniority_in_the_United_States_House_of_Representatives), 315 have been there less than 12 years, the usual suggestion when people talk about term limits. 377 have been there fewer than 20 years. All of 12 have been there more than 30 years. In the [Senate](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seniority_in_the_United_States_Senate), 60 have been there less than 12 years or two terms, the usual limit suggested. 83 have been there fewer than 20 years. All of 4 have been there more than 30 years. Nobody has been in Congress 50 or 60 years, even with combined service. Patrick Leahy has been around for 47. Four others are more than 40. The issue of lifetime politicians is grossly exaggerated. ---
**Author:** ![Broomstick](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/broomstick/32/246_2.png) [@Broomstick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Broomstick)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2022, 10:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dopezine-vol-1-the-long-bust/965536/23 "2022-06-06T22:10:09Z")
Good point well put. ---
**Author:** ![Max\_S](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/46a35a/32.png) [@Max\_S](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Max_S)\ **Post date:** [June 7, 2022, 12:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dopezine-vol-1-the-long-bust/965536/24 "2022-06-07T00:04:45Z")
> [@JohnT](#): > > In reality, the Chinese responded by ignoring _Wired_ Magazine and the Two Peters. Via their implementation of [The Great Firewall](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Firewall), a combination of spyware, limited access to apps and websites, legislative actions, economic protectionism, and outright arrests and social control, much of this in place by 2005, they rejected the “Open: good. Closed: Bad” mantra. China has never been as big on international open-ness as western civilization. In western civilization, trade has always been correlated with prosperity. Historically, China was largely cut off from the rest of the world by jungles to the south, ocean to the east, tundra to the north, and deserts to the west. Western history is chock-full of city states and small countries. China spent most of its history as a single, unified country. In the early modern era, a western superpower could be measured by the size of its navy and merchant fleet. Ming China, hands-down the foremost naval power of the fifteenth century, not only defunded its navy but completely banned maritime commerce. Not only did the silver trade undermine the Ming dynasty’s attempts to reinstate paper money and copper coinage, but the Indian opium trade was a constant and arguably fatal thorn in later Qing China’s side. The Great Qing was infamously protectionist, and only a war forced them to open up to European trade outside the port of Canton. Although ancient history, this history of protectionism and the sheer demand of the Chinese people (see below) nevertheless must have considerable influence in modern China. State-endorsed industrial espionage and intellectual property piracy is only one component of the modern picture. You may not be aware, but in 2015 Premier Li’s announced a ten-year plan to have 70% of core goods sourced domestically, essentially a national-scale vertical integration for a number of high-tech industries thought to be critical to future Chinese national and economic interests. Where these industries currently have international supply chains, China is investing in and enacting laws to protect domestic supply chains. Specific measures are things like requiring any firm that manufactures automobile parts in China to have 50% Chinese ownership ([relaxed in 2021](http://www.mofcom.gov.cn/article/xwfb/xwrcxw/202112/20211203232113.shtml)). Example industries include automobiles, aerospace, robotics, and information technology. The core goods include steel, ball bearings, semiconductors (integrated circuits), aluminum, etc. The so-called “Made In China 2025” plan, now well underway, was a major rationale for President Trump’s so-called “trade war”. The astute news junkie may remember that these were exactly the products subjected to the first round of tariffs. I am not presently well informed about the effects of the trade war, aside from the fact that China seems to be [way behind schedule](https://asia.nikkei.com/Business/Tech/Semiconductors/Made-in-China-chip-drive-falls-far-short-of-70-self-sufficiency) with regard to locally sourced semiconductors. > [@JohnT](#): > > After all, going from no internet to a closed internet of a billion people is still pretty damned transformative and that alone will have beneficial networking effects. The population differential in countries like China and India, and the effect on their approach to trade relations, cannot be overstated. In the year 1600, China had roughly twice the population of all of Europe combined. _Today_, China has roughly twice the population of all of Europe combined. In fact China (~1.4bn) has roughly the same population of the entire western world combined: all of Europe (~780m), the entire western hemisphere (~580m), plus Australia & New Zealand (~30m). ~Max ---
**Author:** ![FlikTheBlue](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fliktheblue/32/10972_2.png) [@FlikTheBlue](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FlikTheBlue)\ **Post date:** [June 7, 2022, 1:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dopezine-vol-1-the-long-bust/965536/25 "2022-06-07T01:09:37Z")
> [@JohnT](#): > > I am struck how the article completely ignored the _even then_ apparent fact that being on the internet made people nastier to each other… just as the power of the press made 16th-century Europe a mean, cruel place to be. While I was aware of this happening during the time period in question, my understanding of the reasons behind it were clearly not fully explained in my history classes. Maybe I was out sick that day. I thought that the reason all that stuff happened at that time was the discovery of the Americas by Columbus and the subsequent willingness to enslave / exterminate non-European peoples, along with a competition within Europe to determine which European power could do that best. That was the narrative that I learned in my history classes. The effects of the printing press were barely touched upon. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dopezine-vol-1-the-long-bust/965536.md?page=1)