# Double Eagle owners have coins confiscated. Any chance of getting them back? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [August 26, 2005, 5:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/double-eagle-owners-have-coins-confiscated-any-chance-of-getting-them-back/318757 "2005-08-26T17:19:02Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Gfactor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/9de053/32.png) [@Gfactor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gfactor)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2005, 2:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/double-eagle-owners-have-coins-confiscated-any-chance-of-getting-them-back/318757/41 "2005-08-28T14:58:58Z")
> [@Monty](#): > > Even if they’re stolen property, wouldn’t there have been some kind of statute of limitations? We’re talking over 70 years here. I thought I already covered this: > [@](#): > > 1. If the property belonged to an individual, instead of the government, she might have a claim for adverse possession. [http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&ct=r...LIq6GiAGA5rWxCg](http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&ct=r...LIq6GiAGA5rWxCg) (rtf) (rules of adverse possession apply to personal property). But adverse possession usually does not work against the government. It’s actually a lot more complicated than that, even: In order to start the statute running in most cases, the possession must have been “open and notorious” [rs2477roads.com](http://www.rs2477roads.com/2plcrpt.htm), which didn’t happen here. There are other elements that might prove difficult to establish as well, \*e.g., \* > [@](#): > > A party bears a “‘heavy burden’ to establish ownership by adverse possession.” Hoffman v. Freeman Land and Timber, LLC., 329 Or 554, 560, 994 P2d 106 (1999). To establish ownership by adverse possession under the common law, a party must show clear and convincing proof of **actual, open, notorious, exclusive, continuous, and hostile** possession of the property for a ten-year period. Davis v. Parke, 135 Or App 283, 286, 898 P2d 804, rev den, 321 Or 560 (1995). To establish ownership by adverse possession under ORS 105.620, a party must prove the common-law elements **and also that the possession was taken under an honest belief that the person was the owner of the property, that that belief continued throughout the vesting period, and that the belief had an objectively reasonable basis.** The party seeking to quiet title under ORS 105.620 must prove each of those elements by clear and convincing evidence. ORS 105.620(1)(c). Clear and convincing evidence means evidence that makes a fact in issue “highly probable.” Riley Hill General Contractor, Inc. v. Tandy Corp., 303 Or 390, 402, 737 P2d 595 (1987). (Emphasis added). > **[FindLaw's OR case and opinions.](https://caselaw.findlaw.com/courts/Oregon)** > > FindLaw's searchable database of OR decisions since The possession was hardly open and notorious, and it is doubtful whether she could establish an objectively reasonable basis for a belief that she or her father was the owner of the property, especially since it’s been kept quiet all this time. As I said before, “one cannot adversely possess against the sovereign.” [http://caselaw.lp.findlaw.com/scripts/getcase.pl?court=co&vol=2004sc\4436&invol=1http://caselaw.lp.findlaw.com/scripts/getcase.pl?court=co&vol=2004sc\4436&invol=1](http://caselaw.lp.findlaw.com/scripts/getcase.pl?court=co&vol=2004sc%5C4436&invol=1http://caselaw.lp.findlaw.com/scripts/getcase.pl?court=co&vol=2004sc%5C4436&invol=1), so that presents another obstacle to such a claim. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2005, 3:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/double-eagle-owners-have-coins-confiscated-any-chance-of-getting-them-back/318757/42 "2005-08-29T03:55:55Z")
> [@](#): > > Not quite true. In the link provided by Earl Snake-Hips Tucker, one double eagle was legally owned abroad, and this is presumed to be the same coin which fetched millions at auction years later. I was talking about the coins from the OP. They’ve never been legally owned by anybody except the US government. As I recall, the government tried to impound the auctioned coin as well. But they ran into the problem that it was outside of the United States and the people that had possession refused to return it. So the government negotiated a deal but said that it was not a precedent for any future coins that turned up. In the current case, the government has legal title to the coins and possession - I think Ms Langbord is SOL. ---
**Author:** ![Beware\_of\_Doug](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/278dde/32.png) [@Beware\_of\_Doug](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Beware_of_Doug)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2005, 4:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/double-eagle-owners-have-coins-confiscated-any-chance-of-getting-them-back/318757/43 "2005-08-29T04:50:19Z")
> [@Gfactor](#): > > In order to start the statute running in most cases, the possession must have been “open and notorious” [rs2477roads.com](http://www.rs2477roads.com/2plcrpt.htm), which didn’t happen here […] The possession was hardly open and notorious, and it is doubtful whether she could establish an objectively reasonable basis for a belief that she or her father was the owner of the property, especially since it’s been kept quiet all this time. I wonder why Mr. Switt wouldn’t even have left word to his heirs about the coins. Was he that paranoid about their secrecy that he would risk getting his family into legal trouble rather than informing them? I won’t even entertain the possibility that he simply forgot he had them. I Googled this topic the day the OP appeared. One web page that described Switt gratuitously as a “Jewish jeweler,” which I thought was a teeny bit offensive. ---
**Author:** ![Schnitte](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/schnitte/32/9033_2.png) [@Schnitte](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Schnitte)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2005, 9:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/double-eagle-owners-have-coins-confiscated-any-chance-of-getting-them-back/318757/44 "2005-08-29T09:09:32Z")
> [@Cartooniverse](#): > > Lacking any material force to back up our Dollar, our Dollar would have become something akin to the Pre- WWI DeutschMark. You mean post-WWI. The pre-war Mark was backed by gold just like the currencies of all major industrialized countries of the era, simply because the gold standard was the ruling regime at that time. The big inflation occurred after the war, reaching its peak in 1923 when the gold mark was traded at about one billion paper marks. In 1933, the ban on possessing gold was part of the devaluation of the dollar. Ever since 1834, the American gold standard had been working in a way that, essentially, the price of gold was fixed at $20.67 per ounce - this was the price at which the Treasury was obliged to buy and sell gold, and you could carry the amount of gold equivalent to a gold coin to the Mint and have it coined for you (until 1900, the US was de jure on a bimetallic standard with gold and silver running parallelly as currency; but since the market price of silver bullion was actually higher than 1/16 of the price of gold, as it was officially assessed by coinage legislation, nobody was coining silver and America had a de facto gold standard). The 1933 reform essentially devalued the dollar - from $20.67 per ounce of gold that had prevailed for a century to $35 per ounce. This went along with the introduction of capital controls to prevent the outflow of liquidity to other countries to fight deflation; and since money, under a gold standard regime, is essentially synonymous to gold, private possession of gold was banned to prevent speculators to move American gold abroad whenever profit margins would arise. ---
**Author:** ![don\_t\_ask](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e68b1a/32.png) [@don\_t\_ask](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/don_t_ask)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2005, 10:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/double-eagle-owners-have-coins-confiscated-any-chance-of-getting-them-back/318757/45 "2005-08-29T10:32:52Z")
Interestingly, from [this site](http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/4190298.stm): “Israel Switt admitted to selling nine of the gold coins in the 1940s but he was never charged with those sales.” ---
**Author:** ![Gfactor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/9de053/32.png) [@Gfactor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gfactor)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2005, 1:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/double-eagle-owners-have-coins-confiscated-any-chance-of-getting-them-back/318757/46 "2005-08-29T13:01:30Z")
> [@Beware of Doug](#): > > I wonder why Mr. Switt wouldn’t even have left word to his heirs about the coins. Was he that paranoid about their secrecy that he would risk getting his family into legal trouble rather than informing them? Several possibilities come to mind: 1. He did tell them, or some of them. Daughter either didn’t get the news or thought it was BS. The former seems more likely. 2. He wasn’t speaking to them. Kinda like the Da Vinci Code. 3. He assumed they would know about the coin situation from general discussions. Are among the highest on my list. ---
**Author:** ![elbows](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/b3f665/32.png) [@elbows](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elbows)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2005, 4:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/double-eagle-owners-have-coins-confiscated-any-chance-of-getting-them-back/318757/47 "2005-08-29T16:47:41Z")
What if she had brought one coin forward and claimed that it was a reproduction made by her father, hobbyist and retired jeweller? Wouldn’t they then have to prove otherwise? How would they do that? Would it be counterfeiting? ---
**Author:** ![Xema](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/x/9de053/32.png) [@Xema](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Xema)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2005, 7:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/double-eagle-owners-have-coins-confiscated-any-chance-of-getting-them-back/318757/48 "2005-08-29T19:04:58Z")
> [@elbows](#): > > …and claimed that it was a reproduction made by her father Privately made reproductions of currency that are indistinguishable from the original are indeed frowned on. ---
**Author:** ![Gfactor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/9de053/32.png) [@Gfactor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gfactor)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2005, 8:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/double-eagle-owners-have-coins-confiscated-any-chance-of-getting-them-back/318757/49 "2005-08-29T20:00:34Z")
> [@elbows](#): > > What if she had brought one coin forward and claimed that it was a reproduction made by her father, hobbyist and retired jeweller? > > Wouldn’t they then have to prove otherwise? How would they do that? > > Would it be counterfeiting? > [@](#): > > § 485. Coins or bars > Release date: 2005-08-03 > Whoever falsely makes, forges, or counterfeits any coin or bar in resemblance or similitude of any coin of a denomination higher than 5 cents or any gold or silver bar coined or stamped at any mint or assay office of the United States. . . . > Shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than fifteen years, or both. > **[18 U.S. Code § 485 - Coins or bars](https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/18/485)** ---
**Author:** ![plnnr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/7ea924/32.png) [@plnnr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/plnnr)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2005, 8:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/double-eagle-owners-have-coins-confiscated-any-chance-of-getting-them-back/318757/50 "2005-08-29T20:02:46Z")
> [@Blalron](#): > > I’m confused. Doesn’t the Constitution require that if the government confiscates property, it must give you “just compensation”? How did they get away with that? Not if you don’t own the property, which is the government’s position in this case. The gov’t doesn’t have to compensate you for something that you stole. ---
**Author:** ![Balthisar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/balthisar/32/2825_2.png) [@Balthisar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Balthisar)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2005, 8:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/double-eagle-owners-have-coins-confiscated-any-chance-of-getting-them-back/318757/51 "2005-08-29T20:04:08Z")
> [@Xema](#): > > Privately made reproductions of currency that are indistinguishable from the original are indeed frowned on. But it was never currency. Wasn’t that part of the point? ---
**Author:** ![Gfactor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/9de053/32.png) [@Gfactor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gfactor)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2005, 8:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/double-eagle-owners-have-coins-confiscated-any-chance-of-getting-them-back/318757/52 "2005-08-29T20:12:10Z")
> [@plnnr](#): > > Not if you don’t own the property, which is the government’s position in this case. The gov’t doesn’t have to compensate you for something that you stole. Even if it wasn’t stolen, it was made contraband. The government can make it illegal to possess something, confiscation of contraband is not a taking. > [@](#): > > The government may not be required to compensate an owner for property which it has already lawfully acquired under the exercise of governmental authority other than the power of eminent domain. [http://straylight.law.cornell.edu/supct/html/94-8729.ZO.html](http://straylight.law.cornell.edu/supct/html/94-8729.ZO.html) And see, [School of Law - School of Law | University of South Carolina](http://www.law.sc.edu/opinions/25158.htm) BTW, in my last post, I forgot to mention that there is a five-year statute of limitations on counterfeiting. OTOH, counterfeit coins are still subject to [forfeiture](http://www4.law.cornell.edu/uscode/html/uscode18/usc_sec_18_00000492----000-.html). ---
**Author:** ![Xema](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/x/9de053/32.png) [@Xema](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Xema)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2005, 8:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/double-eagle-owners-have-coins-confiscated-any-chance-of-getting-them-back/318757/53 "2005-08-29T20:47:24Z")
> [@Balthisar](#): > > But it was never currency. I think Gfactor’s post makes it clear that it need not have circulated. ---
**Author:** ![Steve\_MB](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steve_mb/32/5339_2.png) [@Steve\_MB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steve_MB)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2005, 11:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/double-eagle-owners-have-coins-confiscated-any-chance-of-getting-them-back/318757/54 "2005-09-06T23:18:25Z")
> [@CurtC](#): > > My understanding is that Roosevelt outlawed the owning of gold coins, which makes whether they are allowed for transactions a moot question. It seems like an egregious violation of our property rights, so I have never understood why it was tolerated in the first place This is an example of why some people said the initial stood for “Dictator”. ---
**Author:** ![samclem](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a9a28c/32.png) [@samclem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/samclem)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2005, 12:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/double-eagle-owners-have-coins-confiscated-any-chance-of-getting-them-back/318757/55 "2005-09-07T00:48:26Z")
> [@Steve MB](#): > > This is an example of why some people said the initial stood for “Dictator”. [Note–referring to FDR-ed.] Can you give me a cite as to when/who said that? ---
**Author:** ![Big\_Whistle](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/5f9b8f/32.png) [@Big\_Whistle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Big_Whistle)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2005, 1:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/double-eagle-owners-have-coins-confiscated-any-chance-of-getting-them-back/318757/56 "2005-09-07T01:39:09Z")
> [@Steve MB](#): > > This is an example of why some people said the initial stood for “Dictator”. While I have never been a fan of FDR, or his solutions to the political issues of the time, the decision about gold ownership is not one of his more “dictatorial” actions. All nations at that time had to do something about their monetary systems, having gone off strict gold standards. FDR’s solution was no more onerus than that chosen by any other country. And since the owners were compensated for their gold, it was a better result than could have been expected in some ways; after all, if something is made illegal to own, the government isn’t required to buy it back from you. ---
**Author:** ![Cartooniverse](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cartooniverse/32/3084_2.png) [@Cartooniverse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cartooniverse)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2005, 2:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/double-eagle-owners-have-coins-confiscated-any-chance-of-getting-them-back/318757/57 "2005-09-07T02:36:56Z")
> [@samclem](#): > > [Note–referring to FDR-ed.] > > Can you give me a cite as to when/who said that? An interesting article on the concept of a [constitutional dictatorship](http://writ.news.findlaw.com/dean/20020607.html), including examples of FDR’s Presidency. Cartooniverse ---
**Author:** ![samclem](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a9a28c/32.png) [@samclem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/samclem)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2005, 2:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/double-eagle-owners-have-coins-confiscated-any-chance-of-getting-them-back/318757/58 "2005-09-07T02:55:56Z")
> [@Cartooniverse](#): > > An interesting article on the concept of a [constitutional dictatorship](http://writ.news.findlaw.com/dean/20020607.html), including examples of FDR’s Presidency. > > Cartooniverse In what way does this contribute to answering my question about when/where someone said the “D” in FDR stood for “dictator?” ---
**Author:** ![douglips](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e68b1a/32.png) [@douglips](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/douglips)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2005, 4:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/double-eagle-owners-have-coins-confiscated-any-chance-of-getting-them-back/318757/59 "2005-09-07T04:35:58Z")
> [@samclem](#): > > In what way does this contribute to answering my question about when/where someone said the “D” in FDR stood for “dictator?” Well, according to google, it looks like there is exactly one person who has used the phrase “franklin dictator roosevelt” on the web. [http://www.google.com/search?q="franklin+dictator+roosevelt"&hl=en&hs=XQW&lr=&client=firefox-a&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&filter=0](http://www.google.com/search?q=%22franklin+dictator+roosevelt%22&hl=en&hs=XQW&lr=&client=firefox-a&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&filter=0) ---
**Author:** ![Biffy\_the\_Elephant\_Shrew](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/e47c2d/32.png) [@Biffy\_the\_Elephant\_Shrew](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Biffy_the_Elephant_Shrew)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2005, 1:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/double-eagle-owners-have-coins-confiscated-any-chance-of-getting-them-back/318757/60 "2005-09-07T13:56:36Z")
> [@](#): > > § 485. Coins or bars > Release date: 2005-08-03 > Whoever falsely makes, forges, or counterfeits any coin or bar in resemblance or similitude of any coin of a denomination **higher than 5 cents** or any gold or silver bar coined or stamped at any mint or assay office of the United States. . . . > Shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than fifteen years, or both. Hot damn! Does that mean I’m free to mint counterfeit nickels? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/double-eagle-owners-have-coins-confiscated-any-chance-of-getting-them-back/318757.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/double-eagle-owners-have-coins-confiscated-any-chance-of-getting-them-back/318757.md?page=4)