# Double eclipses in the same month: ever happened before? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [December 8, 2002, 2:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/double-eclipses-in-the-same-month-ever-happened-before/141237 "2002-12-08T02:19:56Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 15\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Johanna](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johanna/32/8318_2.png) [@Johanna](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johanna)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2002, 2:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/double-eclipses-in-the-same-month-ever-happened-before/141237/1 "2002-12-08T02:19:56Z")
An American gentleman I know, who’s sort of on the fringes of Shi‘ite mysticism, sent me an article written by a friend of his. It claims to predict the advent of the Mahdi in Ramadan 2003. The basis for this is a “prophecy” that the Mahdi will appear when both solar and lunar eclipse occur in Ramadan, and that this will take place in Ramadan next year. > [@](#): > > “It has been reported from Abu Jafar (as) that the event of the Mahdi’s appearance shall be attended by two clear signs which will carry with them the weight of ten strong signs. These are the solar and the lunar eclipses; and a similar sign has never happened ever since Adam came upon this planet.” > > Notes: Ikmal al-Din, p. 361 > Sunni hadith tells us the following: “Of our Mahdi there are two signs which have never taken place ever since the Earth and the Heaven came into existence. One is that in the month of Ramadan the moon shall be eclipsed on the first of its nights and the sun in the middle of its days; and such a sign has never occurred ever since the creation of the Earth and the Heaven.” I was like, Ohhh Kayyyy…, you know? This “prophecy” is obviously bogus, since whoever concocted it was unaware that lunar eclipses can only occur at the full moon (middle of the lunar month), and solar eclipses at the new moon (shortly before the start of a lunar month). Apart from that, my question is about the claim that the double eclipse has never before happened in Ramadan. Seems to me likely that this has already occurred several times in recorded history, let alone the depths of prehistory. Especially since the eclipse depends on the sun and moon sharing the same declination; if a solar eclipse occurs in any given lunation, two weeks from then the sun and moon are if anything likelier to be near or at the same declination. If any astronomy geniuses can supply the lunations in the past when double eclipses occurred, I can check which ones were in Ramadan and thereby falsify this stuff. Thanks! ---
**Author:** ![lucwarm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/e19adc/32.png) [@lucwarm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lucwarm)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2002, 2:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/double-eclipses-in-the-same-month-ever-happened-before/141237/2 "2002-12-08T02:24:05Z")
It’s pretty rare - you might say it happens once in a blue moon. ---
**Author:** ![Johanna](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johanna/32/8318_2.png) [@Johanna](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johanna)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2002, 2:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/double-eclipses-in-the-same-month-ever-happened-before/141237/3 "2002-12-08T02:25:06Z")
P.S.—For the record, the total lunar eclipse in question will be on [November 8-9, 2003](http://aa.usno.navy.mil/data/docs/UpcomingEclipses.html) (middle of Ramadan) and the total solar eclipse will be on November 23-24, 2003 (just before the end of Ramadan). ---
**Author:** ![Achernar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e274bd/32.png) [@Achernar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Achernar)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2002, 2:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/double-eclipses-in-the-same-month-ever-happened-before/141237/4 "2002-12-08T02:39:09Z")
Are you sure **lucwarm**? I seem to remember that lunar eclipses are common two weeks before or after a solar eclipse, for the reason given in the OP. A search on “double eclipse”, though, was unhelpful. ---
**Author:** ![donkeyoatey](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e47c2d/32.png) [@donkeyoatey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/donkeyoatey)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2002, 3:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/double-eclipses-in-the-same-month-ever-happened-before/141237/5 "2002-12-08T03:11:25Z")
I don’t know if this is accurate, \*\* Jomo Mojo\*\*, but [this page](http://burro.astr.cwru.edu/denise/Teaching/Homework/hw2ans.html) says no : > [@](#): > > Since a solar eclipse and a lunar eclipse in the same month happen about two weeks apart, the Earth moves enough during the intervening two weeks that the “perfect” alignment which allows for a total solar eclipse, for example, does not last long enough to allow for a total lunar eclipse, and vice versa. ---
**Author:** ![lucwarm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/e19adc/32.png) [@lucwarm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lucwarm)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2002, 5:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/double-eclipses-in-the-same-month-ever-happened-before/141237/6 "2002-12-08T05:27:04Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Achernar \* > \*\*Are you sure **lucwarm**? I seem to remember that lunar eclipses are common two weeks before or after a solar eclipse, for the reason given in the OP. A search on “double eclipse”, though, was unhelpful. \*\* I was making a lame joke. Sorry for not putting in the smilies 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Achernar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e274bd/32.png) [@Achernar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Achernar)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2002, 5:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/double-eclipses-in-the-same-month-ever-happened-before/141237/7 "2002-12-08T05:29:52Z")
Okay I get it. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Johanna](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johanna/32/8318_2.png) [@Johanna](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johanna)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2002, 8:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/double-eclipses-in-the-same-month-ever-happened-before/141237/8 "2002-12-08T20:56:46Z")
There must be an information source somewhere (hopefully a searchable one) that lists all of the solar and lunar eclipses going back many centuries. ---
**Author:** ![Podkayne](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/edb3f5/32.png) [@Podkayne](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Podkayne)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2002, 9:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/double-eclipses-in-the-same-month-ever-happened-before/141237/9 "2002-12-08T21:55:34Z")
This is the best resource for solar eclipses: [http://sunearth.gsfc.nasa.gov/eclipse/eclipse.html](http://sunearth.gsfc.nasa.gov/eclipse/eclipse.html) I don’t know if your answer is a) there and b) going to be easy to get at, but good luck. ---
**Author:** ![bonzer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/45deac/32.png) [@bonzer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bonzer)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2002, 10:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/double-eclipses-in-the-same-month-ever-happened-before/141237/10 "2002-12-08T22:04:46Z")
A quick glance at any list of solar and lunar eclipses (don’t know any online) would show that **most** total lunar eclipses are paired with a solar eclipse, either the fortnight before or a fortnight after. For example: 3rd October 1986 (total solar) and the 17th (total lunar). And I’d guess that a lunar eclipse will correspond with Ramadan on about 1 in 10 times and so this will happen several times a century. ---
**Author:** ![ski](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bbe5ce/32.png) [@ski](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ski)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2002, 12:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/double-eclipses-in-the-same-month-ever-happened-before/141237/11 "2002-12-09T00:35:52Z")
If this prophecy is supposedly from “ancient” times (not clear from the OP), then it might require (whether stated or not) that the eclipse be visible from Mecca or some other suitable location. To ancient Muslims, an eclipse that happens over America, for instance, doesn’t happen as far as they can tell. So factor this into the equation - lunar and solar eclipse in same month, both visible from Mecca - and the probability is a lot lower. ---
**Author:** ![raisinbread](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/8491ac/32.png) [@raisinbread](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/raisinbread)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2002, 12:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/double-eclipses-in-the-same-month-ever-happened-before/141237/12 "2002-12-09T00:53:33Z")
[color=“purple”]But will the eclipses be visible from the middle east? Would this matter? I’m sure this has happened more than enough times in the past, blue moons notwithstanding, but just not visible from the middle east. Yeah this was covered in **ski** ’s post but I’m still curious. ---
**Author:** ![raisinbread](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/8491ac/32.png) [@raisinbread](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/raisinbread)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2002, 12:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/double-eclipses-in-the-same-month-ever-happened-before/141237/13 "2002-12-09T00:55:35Z")
Also check this out. It already happened in 1894. This reeks of them saying “This time it’s for sure!!! Honest!!! We’re not like those crazy Christians saying the end is near!!! Hey, where are you going???” [http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Delphi/1340/eclipse/solar.html](http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Delphi/1340/eclipse/solar.html) ---
**Author:** ![rjk](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/ed655f/32.png) [@rjk](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rjk)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2002, 1:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/double-eclipses-in-the-same-month-ever-happened-before/141237/14 "2002-12-09T01:17:42Z")
According to the sim at **raisinbread** ’s link, it looks like it was only a partial solar eclipse, and it was visible in Pakistan, not Mecca. (Maybe Mecca could see _something_, even though it would be a lot farther from totality. How far from the central path can you be to get at least a little nick on the side of the sun?) Location is no problem for the lunar part; lunar eclipses are visible anywhere you can see the moon. ---
**Author:** ![Johanna](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johanna/32/8318_2.png) [@Johanna](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johanna)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2002, 1:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/double-eclipses-in-the-same-month-ever-happened-before/141237/15 "2002-12-09T01:22:57Z")
**Podkayne** , that link was what the doctor ordered, thank you! It would take just one counterexample to falsify the claim that the double eclipse in Ramadan had never occurred since the time of Adam. You would be amazed to know the number of lunar and solar eclipses happening every century. That makes for enough probability of double eclipses in Ramadan more than once. I looked just in the century before the beginning of the Hegira era, and found the lunar eclipse on March 4, 527 (15 Ramadan, 99 BH) followed two weeks later by the solar eclipse on March 18, 527 (29 Ramadan, 99 BH). I found this only 27 years into the century. Probably you could find at least one or more Ramadan double eclipses in every century. Anyone can check for themself in the catalogs of lunar and solar eclipses covering 6000 years: [http://sunearth.gsfc.nasa.gov/eclipse/LEcat/LEcatalog.html](http://sunearth.gsfc.nasa.gov/eclipse/LEcat/LEcatalog.html) [http://sunearth.gsfc.nasa.gov/eclipse/SEcat/SEcatalog.html](http://sunearth.gsfc.nasa.gov/eclipse/SEcat/SEcatalog.html) Thanks for helping me to fight ignorance. These dodgy prophecies can be hard to pin down sometimes, but are easily debunked when they concern specific facts of hard science. Talk about **bad astronomy**!