# Double letter endings in French **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [January 28, 2025, 7:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/double-letter-endings-in-french/1013546 "2025-01-28T19:40:09Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Hari\_Seldon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hari_seldon/32/5173_2.png) [@Hari\_Seldon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hari_Seldon)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2025, 8:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/double-letter-endings-in-french/1013546/21 "2025-01-29T20:30:36Z")
Just one comment: final r’s are not always pronounced. Never in the infinitives of -er verbs. ---
**Author:** ![Exapno\_Mapcase](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/exapno_mapcase/32/1051_2.png) [@Exapno\_Mapcase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Exapno_Mapcase)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2025, 8:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/double-letter-endings-in-french/1013546/22 "2025-01-29T20:32:26Z")
So the French sound like Bostonians. ---
**Author:** ![ThelmaLou](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thelmalou/32/390_2.png) [@ThelmaLou](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ThelmaLou)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2025, 8:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/double-letter-endings-in-french/1013546/23 "2025-01-29T20:40:10Z")
> [@Exapno\_Mapcase](#): > > I was taught the mnemonic CaReFuL for the four consonants that always had to be pronounced. I learned that, too, but the word “clef” is an exception because the “F” is silent. ---
**Author:** ![Orville\_mogul](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/aeb1de/32.png) [@Orville\_mogul](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Orville_mogul)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2025, 9:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/double-letter-endings-in-french/1013546/24 "2025-01-29T21:02:00Z")
I agree. That is a very important exception to the rule ---
**Author:** ![Exapno\_Mapcase](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/exapno_mapcase/32/1051_2.png) [@Exapno\_Mapcase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Exapno_Mapcase)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2025, 9:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/double-letter-endings-in-french/1013546/25 "2025-01-29T21:10:24Z")
But the “n” in roman à clef _is_ pronounced. My French is not merely elementary, it’s pre-school. ---
**Author:** ![ThelmaLou](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thelmalou/32/390_2.png) [@ThelmaLou](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ThelmaLou)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2025, 10:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/double-letter-endings-in-french/1013546/26 "2025-01-29T22:39:35Z")
How can you learn a language that has exceptions? Oh, wait… 🤦🏻 ---
**Author:** ![hibernicus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hibernicus/32/2802_2.png) [@hibernicus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hibernicus)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2025, 11:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/double-letter-endings-in-french/1013546/27 "2025-01-29T23:25:30Z")
TabaC MonteR CleF CuL FusiL AiL ---
**Author:** ![ThelmaLou](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thelmalou/32/390_2.png) [@ThelmaLou](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ThelmaLou)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2025, 1:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/double-letter-endings-in-french/1013546/28 "2025-01-30T01:30:38Z")
B-b-b-but… 🤯 ---
**Author:** ![Moonrise](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/moonrise/32/14764_2.png) [@Moonrise](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Moonrise)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2025, 7:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/double-letter-endings-in-french/1013546/29 "2025-01-30T07:45:58Z")
> [@FrenchDunadan](#): > > the only double final letter that remains silent is (IMHO) -ée. Which are the feminine form of an adjective ending in -é (like in "daté/datée) . The pronunciation is identical, only the written form differ. “Une épée” comes from the ancient French “espee” In standard French indeed. But there are dialects in which it is pronounced as a slight glide, something like “epEy”. > [@hibernicus](#): > > CuL FusiL AiL If you read them phonetically, it comes out… funny. ---
**Author:** ![Schnitte](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/schnitte/32/9033_2.png) [@Schnitte](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Schnitte)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2025, 1:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/double-letter-endings-in-french/1013546/30 "2025-01-30T13:32:39Z")
> [@Exapno\_Mapcase](#): > > But the “n” in roman à clef _is_ pronounced. That’s because it’s a case of _liaison_ - a word ending in a consonant followed by a word beginning with a vowel. In such a case, the consonant is often pronounced because otherwise the last vowel of the first word and the first vowel of the next word (in this case, the _à_) would come right after another, which would be awkward to pronounce. When _roman_ is not followed by a vowel, the n remains silent. ---
**Author:** ![Moonrise](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/moonrise/32/14764_2.png) [@Moonrise](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Moonrise)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2025, 2:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/double-letter-endings-in-french/1013546/31 "2025-01-30T14:47:27Z")
> [@Exapno\_Mapcase](#): > > But the “n” in roman à clef _is_ pronounced. Is it? The liaison sounds really weird to me. ---
**Author:** ![EinsteinsHund](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/einsteinshund/32/8400_2.png) [@EinsteinsHund](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EinsteinsHund)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2025, 4:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/double-letter-endings-in-french/1013546/32 "2025-01-30T16:29:57Z")
> [@Schnitte](#): > > When _roman_ is not followed by a vowel, the n remains silent. Is it really silent? I mean, “roman” is pronounced differently than “roma”, the ending vowel ‘a’ has a nasal tone that’s indicated by the ending ‘n’. ---
**Author:** ![Schnitte](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/schnitte/32/9033_2.png) [@Schnitte](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Schnitte)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2025, 5:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/double-letter-endings-in-french/1013546/33 "2025-01-30T17:16:07Z")
Point taken, the -n modifies the pronunciation of the -a in a way that might mean it shouldn’t be called silent. I’ll admit I’m not enough of a linguist to say with certainty whether this makes it a silent letter or not. ---
**Author:** ![Mark\_Finn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/34f0e0/32.png) [@Mark\_Finn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mark_Finn)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2025, 7:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/double-letter-endings-in-french/1013546/34 "2025-01-30T19:42:14Z")
> [@Moonrise](#): > > > [@FrenchDunadan](#): > > > > the only double final letter that remains silent is (IMHO) -ée. Which are the feminine form of an adjective ending in -é (like in "daté/datée) . The pronunciation is identical, only the written form differ. “Une épée” comes from the ancient French “espee” > > In standard French indeed. But there are dialects in which it is pronounced as a slight glide, something like “epEy”. > > > [@hibernicus](#): > > > > CuL FusiL AiL > > If you read them phonetically, it comes out… funny. The French version of “O Canada” has a line “Car ton bras sait porter l’épée”, and the last word comes out as “lay-pay-uh”. [Hymne national du Canada en Français](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L8Sw6ScUmnk) ---
**Author:** ![zimaane](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/a3d4f5/32.png) [@zimaane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/zimaane)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2025, 10:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/double-letter-endings-in-french/1013546/35 "2025-01-30T22:02:40Z")
Clef (meaning key) is an interesting case. It comes from Latin clavis, which became clef in Middle Ages French with plural form clefs. This was back when the French were pronouncing all of the letters in a word, and it seems that clefs wasn’t that easy to say. So the ‘f’ sound dropped out of the plural, leading to words pronounced “clef” and “cles”. The singular form then lost the ‘f’ sound by analogy with the plural. But the spelling ‘clef’ was retained, because of tradition. Also an ‘f’ looks a bit like a key if you’ve had enough wine. Today both clé and clef are considered correct spellings. ---
**Author:** ![Hari\_Seldon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hari_seldon/32/5173_2.png) [@Hari\_Seldon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hari_Seldon)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2025, 10:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/double-letter-endings-in-french/1013546/36 "2025-01-30T22:50:41Z")
I have the impression that final vowels, although normally silent, are often pronounced in poetry and songs. I don’t consider ée a double letter because they are distinct vowels. Not really relevant to this thread, but I can’t help mentioning the common Quebec name Pouliot, in which the t is not silent, although you would expect it to be. The Pouliot I met pronounced it as though it was Pouliottt. Presumably, people didn’t pronounce it correctly unless he emphasized it. ---
**Author:** ![Q.Q.Switcheroo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/q.q.switcheroo/32/5713_2.png) [@Q.Q.Switcheroo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Q.Q.Switcheroo)\ **Post date:** [January 31, 2025, 3:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/double-letter-endings-in-french/1013546/37 "2025-01-31T03:03:32Z")
> [@Hari\_Seldon](#): > > Not really relevant to this thread, but I can’t help mentioning the common Quebec name Pouliot, in which the t is not silent, although you would expect it to be. The composer Jean Françaix said his family traditionally pronounced the “X” at the end of their surname, but he gave up on correcting people who pronounced it “fran-SAY” (speculating that perhaps they just didn’t want to say “sex” out loud). ---
**Author:** ![Moonrise](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/moonrise/32/14764_2.png) [@Moonrise](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Moonrise)\ **Post date:** [January 31, 2025, 8:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/double-letter-endings-in-french/1013546/38 "2025-01-31T08:23:04Z")
> [@zimaane](#): > > … But the spelling ‘clef’ was retained, because of tradition. Also an ‘f’ looks a bit like a key if you’ve had enough wine.Today both clé and clef are considered correct spellings. True, but I cannot bring myself to write _clé_. _Clef_ looks so much better to me, perhaps for the reason you mention, even though I don’t drink. > [@Hari\_Seldon](#): > > I have the impression that final vowels, although normally silent, are often pronounced in poetry and songs. There’s indeed some licence when it comes to poetry and, even more so, songs. You can opt for the pronunciation that fits the meter, although the rules may have been stricter for classical verse. ---
**Author:** ![Schnitte](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/schnitte/32/9033_2.png) [@Schnitte](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Schnitte)\ **Post date:** [January 31, 2025, 9:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/double-letter-endings-in-french/1013546/39 "2025-01-31T09:15:54Z")
> [@zimaane](#): > > Also an ‘f’ looks a bit like a key if you’ve had enough wine. We’ve had a [thread](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/words-that-look-like-the-thing-they-spell/1006046/1) about this phenomenon (words looking like the things they spell) a little while back, but couldn’t agree on a word for it. ---
**Author:** ![DPRK](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/4491bb/32.png) [@DPRK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DPRK)\ **Post date:** [January 31, 2025, 10:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/double-letter-endings-in-french/1013546/40 "2025-01-31T22:24:59Z")
How about > [@](#): > > « Je te tiens, tu me tiens, par la barbichette ; > Le premier de nous deux qui rira aura une tapette ! » [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/double-letter-endings-in-french/1013546.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/double-letter-endings-in-french/1013546.md?page=3)