# Double negatives make a positive! No, they don't! **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [February 8, 2010, 4:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/double-negatives-make-a-positive-no-they-dont/528150 "2010-02-08T16:11:22Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [February 8, 2010, 4:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/double-negatives-make-a-positive-no-they-dont/528150/1 "2010-02-08T16:11:22Z")
To give an outlet to those who got sidetracked by grammar in the U-boat thread over in GQ. Have at it! ---
**Author:** ![enomaj](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/59ef9b/32.png) [@enomaj](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/enomaj)\ **Post date:** [February 8, 2010, 4:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/double-negatives-make-a-positive-no-they-dont/528150/2 "2010-02-08T16:40:50Z")
Two of my favorite double negatives: I ain’t even do nothin’. -used this regularly as a child I ain’t be gotten no weapons. -Hollywood Shuffle ---
**Author:** ![orcenio](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/orcenio/32/1036_2.png) [@orcenio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/orcenio)\ **Post date:** [February 8, 2010, 4:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/double-negatives-make-a-positive-no-they-dont/528150/3 "2010-02-08T16:46:51Z")
> [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](#): > > To give an outlet to those who got sidetracked by grammar in the U-boat thread over in GQ. > > Have at it! I think " No, they don’t!" isn’t a double negative, but two clauses joined by a comma. ---
**Author:** ![Noone\_Special](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/noone_special/32/2863_2.png) [@Noone\_Special](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Noone_Special)\ **Post date:** [February 8, 2010, 4:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/double-negatives-make-a-positive-no-they-dont/528150/4 "2010-02-08T16:47:00Z")
Well, there’s the story about the professor who pointed out that sometimes a double negative strengthens the negative, and sometimes a double negative makes a positive, but a double positive never makes a negative. “Yeah, right,” piped up a student from the back seats… ---
**Author:** ![Rhythmdvl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/85f322/32.png) [@Rhythmdvl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rhythmdvl)\ **Post date:** [February 8, 2010, 4:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/double-negatives-make-a-positive-no-they-dont/528150/5 "2010-02-08T16:49:52Z")
Badges? We ain’t got no badges. We don’t need no badges. I don’t have to show you any stinking badges! ---
**Author:** ![blondebear](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/blondebear/32/1022_2.png) [@blondebear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/blondebear)\ **Post date:** [February 8, 2010, 5:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/double-negatives-make-a-positive-no-they-dont/528150/6 "2010-02-08T17:01:35Z")
To [mis]quote the famous song: _I ain’t got plenty of nuthin’…_ ---
**Author:** ![Quartz](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quartz/32/267_2.png) [@Quartz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Quartz)\ **Post date:** [February 8, 2010, 5:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/double-negatives-make-a-positive-no-they-dont/528150/7 "2010-02-08T17:35:10Z")
The use of double negatives goes back to antiquity: the Latin _nonnulli_ - literally, _not none_ - is usually translated as _some_. I vaguely recall it in Attic Greek, and I expect it’s there in older languages too. For a modern master orator using the double negative to devastating effect, watch [this video](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l6Cj1b-rp1E). ---
**Author:** ![suranyi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e36b37/32.png) [@suranyi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/suranyi)\ **Post date:** [February 8, 2010, 6:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/double-negatives-make-a-positive-no-they-dont/528150/8 "2010-02-08T18:05:37Z")
There’s nothing wrong with using two negatives to mean a negative, if that’s how the grammar of the language works. It’s common in French, for example: “Je ne suis pas une femme.” – “I am not a woman.” “ne” and “pas” are both negative. ---
**Author:** ![Contrapuntal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e274bd/32.png) [@Contrapuntal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Contrapuntal)\ **Post date:** [February 8, 2010, 6:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/double-negatives-make-a-positive-no-they-dont/528150/9 "2010-02-08T18:16:08Z")
Double negatives certainly \*can \*make a positive, so to assert that they _don’t_ is incorrect. It depends upon the situation. I’m speaking about English of course. The French example given above is the proper construction. I’m not sure it qualifies as a double negative, since you wouldn’t have a negative at all without both elements. ---
**Author:** ![Tastes\_of\_Chocolate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tastes_of_chocolate/32/3232_2.png) [@Tastes\_of\_Chocolate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tastes_of_Chocolate)\ **Post date:** [February 8, 2010, 9:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/double-negatives-make-a-positive-no-they-dont/528150/10 "2010-02-08T21:03:06Z")
I can’t not go. Meaning, I’m not allowed to not go. Or, I am going. So a double negative can make a positive. ---
**Author:** ![Carnacki](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/b5e925/32.png) [@Carnacki](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Carnacki)\ **Post date:** [February 8, 2010, 9:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/double-negatives-make-a-positive-no-they-dont/528150/11 "2010-02-08T21:38:51Z")
> [@Tastes\_of\_Chocolate](#): > > I can’t not go. > > Meaning, I’m not allowed to not go. Or, I am going. > > So a double negative can make a positive. +(-(-1)) ---
**Author:** ![Quartz](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quartz/32/267_2.png) [@Quartz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Quartz)\ **Post date:** [February 8, 2010, 9:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/double-negatives-make-a-positive-no-they-dont/528150/12 "2010-02-08T21:41:57Z")
> [@suranyi](#): > > There’s nothing wrong with using two negatives to mean a negative, if that’s how the grammar of the language works. It’s common in French, for example: > > “Je ne suis pas une femme.” – “I am not a woman.” > > “ne” and “pas” are both negative. No quite: ‘ne’ and ‘pas’ are part of the same negative (similarly ‘ne’ and jamais’). It’s not a double negative. You may have spotted that ‘ne’ is sometimes omitted in speech and drawn the wrong conclusion. ---
**Author:** ![Biffy\_the\_Elephant\_Shrew](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/e47c2d/32.png) [@Biffy\_the\_Elephant\_Shrew](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Biffy_the_Elephant_Shrew)\ **Post date:** [February 9, 2010, 12:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/double-negatives-make-a-positive-no-they-dont/528150/13 "2010-02-09T00:09:25Z")
> [@Quartz](#): > > No quite: ‘ne’ and ‘pas’ are part of the same negative (similarly ‘ne’ and jamais’). It’s not a double negative. You may have spotted that ‘ne’ is sometimes omitted in speech and drawn the wrong conclusion. Spanish then. Double negatives are standard there, as in _No dije nada_ (literally “I didn’t say nothing.”) ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [February 9, 2010, 12:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/double-negatives-make-a-positive-no-they-dont/528150/14 "2010-02-09T00:43:44Z")
An example I always trot out in this discussion: The _Family Ties_ theme song contains the following line: “There ain’t no nothing we can’t love each other through”. Here we have an example of a quadruple negative, that works out to a positive (“we can love each other through anything”), through three negatives reinforcing each other, and then being reversed by another negative. “There ain’t no nothing” means the same as “There ain’t nothing”, or “There is nothing”, so it’s “there’s nothing we can’t love each other through”, and then the “can’t” reverses the “nothing”. Or, to put it mathematically, it’s something like ( (-1) + (-1) + (-1) ) \* (-1), which is a positive value. ---
**Author:** ![needscoffee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/needscoffee/32/1076_2.png) [@needscoffee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/needscoffee)\ **Post date:** [February 9, 2010, 1:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/double-negatives-make-a-positive-no-they-dont/528150/15 "2010-02-09T01:58:51Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > An example I always trot out in this discussion: > > The _Family Ties_ theme song contains the following line: > “There ain’t no nothing we can’t love each other through”.[…] You know the Family Ties theme song? ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2010, 5:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/double-negatives-make-a-positive-no-they-dont/528150/16 "2010-02-10T05:25:54Z")
Only that line of it. Back when I was a kid and it was still on, I was already nerdy enough to notice the interesting construction, and so remembered it. ---
**Author:** ![septimus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/septimus/32/410_2.png) [@septimus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/septimus)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2010, 7:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/double-negatives-make-a-positive-no-they-dont/528150/17 "2010-02-10T07:12:39Z")
There are many examples where a negative is actually an emphatic _positive_: "Wow, isn’t that girl pretty?’ “Isn’t she!” There are also examples where a sentence has three or more negatives and _does indeed_ conform to the rule that a negative is intended if and only if the total number of negatives is an _odd_ number. (Am I the only one that sometimes has to stop and actually count the negatives to understand the meaning of such a sentence?) An example, paraphrased, from a N.Y. Times editorial is the sentence: In a court case brought by environmentalists against the coal mining industry the judge found that the defendant had failed to demonstrate the damage would not be irreversible. Not counting “damage” this clause has four negatives (failed, not, ir-, -revers); thus it _affirms_ the environmental damage. ---
**Author:** ![Polycarp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/82dd89/32.png) [@Polycarp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Polycarp)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2010, 1:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/double-negatives-make-a-positive-no-they-dont/528150/18 "2010-02-10T13:14:29Z")
I am not unwilling to concede that sometimes, especially in a formal register, a double negative can result in a net positive statement, but as fpr a universal rule, especially in regard to colloqual speech registers, I ain’t got nothin! ---
**Author:** ![MsRobyn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/90ced4/32.png) [@MsRobyn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MsRobyn)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2010, 1:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/double-negatives-make-a-positive-no-they-dont/528150/19 "2010-02-10T13:38:48Z")
> [@Louis Prima or David Lee Roth](#): > > 'Cause I ain’t got nobody > nobody nobody cares for me > I’m so sad and lonely > sad and lonely sad and lonely > Won’t some sweet mama > come and take a chance with me > cause I ain’t so bad If he ain’t got nobody, and he ain’t so bad, he’s got a self-esteem problem. ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2010, 2:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/double-negatives-make-a-positive-no-they-dont/528150/20 "2010-02-10T14:08:53Z")
> [@orcenio](#): > > I think " No, they don’t!" isn’t a double negative, but two clauses joined by a comma. I don’t disagree with you - but then again, I didn’t say it was. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/double-negatives-make-a-positive-no-they-dont/528150.md?page=2)