# Double standards and Randi Rhodes. **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [April 4, 2008, 3:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/double-standards-and-randi-rhodes/443929 "2008-04-04T15:32:28Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2008, 6:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/double-standards-and-randi-rhodes/443929/61 "2008-04-04T18:40:41Z")
[QUOTE=Diogenes the Cynic] You don’t dispute that Fox News has a conservative bias, do you? [/QUOTE] I dispute the fact that NPR listeners = liberals. And I dispute the fact the NPR is biased towards the liberal end of things. If we’re contrasting liberal vs conservative media and audience, we need to actually put forth a liberal medium or a liberal audience. ---
**Author:** ![Richard\_Parker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/35a633/32.png) [@Richard\_Parker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Richard_Parker)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2008, 6:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/double-standards-and-randi-rhodes/443929/62 "2008-04-04T18:45:26Z")
[QUOTE=John Mace] [Yes.](http://www.prss.org/docs/2005_NPR_Audience_Fact_Sheets.pdf) NPR audience: 29% conservative. 31% liberal. 26% Middle of the Road. There is no margin of error given, but I think we can safely assume that it is at least 2%. [/QUOTE] I’m not at all surprised by those numbers. More people identify as conservative than as liberal, so that’s actually a pretty significant skew toward liberal. And even if it weren’t, it is still a much more liberal audience than Fox News. ETA: If your point is that there is no liberal version of Fox News to compare, you’re not going to get disagreement. That is, after all, our point. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2008, 6:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/double-standards-and-randi-rhodes/443929/63 "2008-04-04T18:48:49Z")
[QUOTE=Mr. Moto] That’s a laugh. We’ve just spent weeks debating how much influence a certain pastor has had on the most liberal candidate in this race. For you to state that liberalism is untainted in this way is just completely false. Completely. You do know what today is, don’t you? The anniversary we commemorate is the death of a pretty well known liberal who was also a minister. You ought to keep this in mind as well. [/QUOTE] Religion **ism** is not the same as religion. Being religiose is not the same thing as being religious. Nothing Wright said involved magical beliefs being taught to school kids as science. Neither did anything MLK said. Modern conservatism has a decidedly fantastic, religiose, anti-critical slant to it. Gay people are evil because the magic book says so. Evolution is evil because the magic book says so. Anybody who is predisposed to religious fundamentalism has already abandoned critical thinking. I don’t think there’s any dispute that many aspects of conservative belief are founded on nothing but religious belief. This kind of ideological sloppiness is not found on the left. ---
**Author:** ![stolichnaya](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bcef8e/32.png) [@stolichnaya](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/stolichnaya)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2008, 6:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/double-standards-and-randi-rhodes/443929/64 "2008-04-04T18:52:17Z")
[QUOTE=John Mace] I dispute the fact that NPR listeners = liberals. And I dispute the fact the NPR is biased towards the liberal end of things. If we’re contrasting liberal vs conservative media and audience, we need to actually put forth a liberal medium or a liberal audience. [/QUOTE] That’s a good point and I mostly agree- I think you’d find that most Air America listeners (for example) are less well-informed than NPR listeners, NPR being an organization that appears to still practice actual journalism. I still think it is at least relevant that some huge percentage of Fox News watchers would consider NPR wildly liberal, based on my own exhasutive survey of the sample set of Fox News viewers with whom I regularly interact. In response I think Fox news stories would be much improved with sound effects of banging pots and soft jazz in the background. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2008, 6:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/double-standards-and-randi-rhodes/443929/65 "2008-04-04T18:56:40Z")
[QUOTE=Richard Parker] I’m not at all surprised by those numbers. More people identify as conservative than as liberal, so that’s actually a pretty significant skew toward liberal. And even if it weren’t, it is still a much more liberal audience than Fox News. ETA: If your point is that there is no liberal version of Fox News to compare, you’re not going to get disagreement. That is, after all, our point. [/QUOTE] No, that is not my point. There may not be a liberal TV version of Fox, but I’ve been spectacularly unimpressed by the internet favorites of this board’s liberals: MediaMatters and ThinkProgess. I’ve seen the same sort of spin and distortion on those cites as you see on Fox, and more to the point, I’ve seen the same circle jerk feedback from the respondents. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2008, 6:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/double-standards-and-randi-rhodes/443929/66 "2008-04-04T18:59:51Z")
Mmmm, no. First off, the Unholy Alliance between the poltical conservative movement and the knuckle-walking Bible thumpers was a marriage of convenience. The tighty rightys exploited them until the Trogs started to catch on that, no, the corporados don’t really care if Bruce marries Bruce. Mr. Dobson wants to ban Britteny’s titties, Comcast wants to sell Britteny’s titties, and money talks. Loud. > [@](#): > > …This kind of ideological sloppiness is not found on the left… In the interest of solidarity, I will nod my head in solemn agreement. Yes. Quite. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2008, 7:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/double-standards-and-randi-rhodes/443929/67 "2008-04-04T19:00:13Z")
[QUOTE=stolichnaya] That’s a good point and I mostly agree- I think you’d find that most Air America listeners (for example) are less well-informed than NPR listeners, NPR being an organization that appears to still practice actual journalism. I still think it is at least relevant that some huge percentage of Fox News watchers would consider NPR wildly liberal, based on my own exhasutive survey of the sample set of Fox News viewers with whom I regularly interact. In response I think Fox news stories would be much improved with sound effects of banging pots and soft jazz in the background. [/QUOTE] Yes, I think many or most conservatives would consider NPR to be liberally biased. But I’ve seen surveys that demonstrate the exact opposite-- that NPR has more guests who are conservative than who are liberal. And the audience is split pretty much right down the middle. ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Moto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9de0a6/32.png) [@Mr.Moto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Moto)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2008, 7:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/double-standards-and-randi-rhodes/443929/68 "2008-04-04T19:00:40Z")
[QUOTE=Diogenes the Cynic] This kind of ideological sloppiness is not found on the left. [/QUOTE] People are equal because the Good Book says so? > [@](#): > > I have a dream that one day every valley shall be exalted, and every hill and mountain shall be made low, the rough places will be made plain, and the crooked places will be made straight; "and the glory of the Lord shall be revealed and all flesh shall see it together."² > > This is our hope, and this is the faith that I go back to the South with. > > With this faith, we will be able to hew out of the mountain of despair a stone of hope. With this faith, we will be able to transform the jangling discords of our nation into a beautiful symphony of brotherhood. With this faith, we will be able to work together, to pray together, to struggle together, to go to jail together, to stand up for freedom together, knowing that we will be free one day. C’mon. You talk about ideological sloppiness and exhibit some yourself here. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2008, 7:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/double-standards-and-randi-rhodes/443929/69 "2008-04-04T19:06:22Z")
[QUOTE=Mr. Moto] People are equal because the Good Book says so? C’mon. You talk about ideological sloppiness and exhibit some yourself here. [/QUOTE] MLK was a preacher, not a politician, but I don’t see any magical religious assumptions in that speech. ---
**Author:** ![Richard\_Parker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/35a633/32.png) [@Richard\_Parker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Richard_Parker)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2008, 7:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/double-standards-and-randi-rhodes/443929/70 "2008-04-04T19:08:20Z")
[QUOTE=John Mace] No, that is not my point. There may not be a liberal TV version of Fox, but I’ve been spectacularly unimpressed by the internet favorites of this board’s liberals: MediaMatters and ThinkProgess. I’ve seen the same sort of spin and distortion on those cites as you see on Fox, and more to the point, I’ve seen the same circle jerk feedback from the respondents. [/QUOTE] But the readership of those blogs is a drop in the bucket. And again, the effort here isn’t to establish whether there is a relative difference. [QUOTE=John Mace] And the audience is split pretty much right down the middle. [/QUOTE] But that’s a very misleading statistic. If a radio show’s listernership was 35% African-American and 65% white, that would show a significant skew toward African-American listeners. Similarly, you have to look at the overall balance of self-identifying liberals and conservatives to make sense of your numbers. Only a tenth of Republicans and less than half of Democrats identify as liberal, while more than half of Republicans and about a quarter of Democrats identify as Conservative (according to Pew). So a 31/29 skew is significant. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2008, 7:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/double-standards-and-randi-rhodes/443929/71 "2008-04-04T19:11:17Z")
[QUOTE=John Mace] …MediaMatters and ThinkProgess. I’ve seen the same sort of spin and distortion on those cites as you see on Fox… [/QUOTE] Really? Seems rather carefully worded, **John**. You see “the same sort”. Do you see the same predominance? Are you suggesting an equivalence in terms of the amount of time/verbiage _devoted_ to spin and slant? A tough case to make, in my estimation. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2008, 7:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/double-standards-and-randi-rhodes/443929/72 "2008-04-04T19:18:15Z")
**John** , I actually haven’t seen much of either of those websites being cited or discussed around here. I certainly don’t seek out those sites and I’m not sure I’ve ever even seen thinkprogress. What makes you call them liberal “favorites” on this board. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2008, 7:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/double-standards-and-randi-rhodes/443929/73 "2008-04-04T19:22:53Z")
[QUOTE=elucidator] Really? Seems rather carefully worded, **John**. You see “the same sort”. Do you see the same predominance? Are you suggesting an equivalence in terms of the amount of time/verbiage _devoted_ to spin and slant? A tough case to make, in my estimation. [/QUOTE] No, I don’t mean the same predominance because I don’t think that can be objectively measured. I won’t try and prove some sort of equivalence between conservatives and liberals, only that I see similar behaviors in both camps. Is one side worse than the other? Maybe. I just object to the idea, presented above, that liberals are somehow less in need of and less prone to circle jerk in the way that conservatives do. > [@DtC](#): > > This exactly right. The reason Air America is not successful is because liberals like to think for themselves. They don’t need to be comforted by hearing constant reiteration of their own viewpoints. ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2008, 7:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/double-standards-and-randi-rhodes/443929/74 "2008-04-04T19:31:44Z")
[QUOTE=John Mace] [Yes.](http://www.prss.org/docs/2005_NPR_Audience_Fact_Sheets.pdf) NPR audience: 29% conservative. 31% liberal. 26% Middle of the Road. There is no margin of error given, but I think we can safely assume that it is at least 2%. [/QUOTE] [Here](http://www.nationalcenter.org/WCT012004.html) is data from a right wing site. > [@](#): > > Overall political philosophy: According to an October-November 2003 Gallup poll, 41 percent of Americans identify as conservative, 39 percent as moderate and 19 percent as liberal. A year before, the percentages were 38, 39 and 19; in 2001, 38, 40 and 19; in 2000, 37, 42 and 20. [Here’s](http://www.politico.com/news/stories/1107/6823.html) another. > [@](#): > > In early autumn, the Gallup Poll found that while 43 percent of Americans identified as Democrats, only 23 percent of voters called themselves liberals. > > While 30 percent of Americans considered themselves Republicans, fully 39 percent labeled themselves conservative. From context, this poll was from 2007. As an example of the difference, consider comics. Doonesbury tends to twit whoever is in power. The closest thing to a conservative strip, Mallard Fillmore, has had almost nothing bad to say about Bush - at least while I was getting the Merc. Exception - when he got too liberal. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2008, 7:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/double-standards-and-randi-rhodes/443929/75 "2008-04-04T19:32:24Z")
But the evidence supports me. Liberal media never attracts the same kind of audiences as right wing media. ---
**Author:** ![mlees](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ba8739/32.png) [@mlees](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mlees)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2008, 7:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/double-standards-and-randi-rhodes/443929/76 "2008-04-04T19:46:07Z")
[QUOTE=Diogenes the Cynic] But the evidence supports me. Liberal media never attracts the same kind of audiences as right wing media. [/QUOTE] Maybe the liberal media never found someone who was as skilled at entertaining the listenership. Who do you think had the most raw talent for entertainment in liberal radio? ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2008, 7:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/double-standards-and-randi-rhodes/443929/77 "2008-04-04T19:46:09Z")
[QUOTE=Diogenes the Cynic] This board welcomes views from all political stripes and the liberals here actually _seek out_ disagreement and debate. There are no circle jerks here. Look how many lefties in this thread are saying they don’t like Randi Rhodes or Air America. You never find righties stepping out of lockstep like that. [/QUOTE] Am I a “righty?” ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2008, 7:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/double-standards-and-randi-rhodes/443929/78 "2008-04-04T19:52:03Z")
[QUOTE=Bricker] Am I a “righty?” [/QUOTE] Not a typical one. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2008, 7:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/double-standards-and-randi-rhodes/443929/79 "2008-04-04T19:52:48Z")
[QUOTE=mlees] Maybe the liberal media never found someone who was as skilled at entertaining the listenership. [/QUOTE] Al Franken on his worst day is always more entertaining than Limbaugh on his best, IME. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2008, 7:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/double-standards-and-randi-rhodes/443929/80 "2008-04-04T19:52:55Z")
[QUOTE=Diogenes the Cynic] Not a typical one. [/QUOTE] He’s not a true Scotsman either! [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/double-standards-and-randi-rhodes/443929.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/double-standards-and-randi-rhodes/443929.md?page=5)