# Doubling energy - is it so easy? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [April 8, 2010, 10:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doubling-energy-is-it-so-easy/535394 "2010-04-08T10:28:37Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 7\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![komolono](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/komolono/32/532_2.png) [@komolono](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/komolono)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2010, 12:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doubling-energy-is-it-so-easy/535394/61 "2010-04-12T12:42:58Z")
> [@Joe Frickin Friday](#): > > I think I see what’s causing all this misunderstanding. [The First Law of thermodynamics](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First_law_of_thermodynamics) states that energy cannot be created or destroyed. The sea-level windmills stored wind energy in hydrogen gas; if you burn that hydrogen in/at the top of the pipe and use that energy to create high-velocity jet to power a windmill up there, you are not **creating** energy. You are simply **using** the energy that was stored in that hydrogen gas, and after that, the energy will not be available to run the combustion power plant. > > One should not drink while brainstorming world-saving ideas; it generally doesn’t turn out well. 😃 You are right, I’ll try stop drinking. I thought that H2 burns at a temperature between 1000-2000 C. Something similar to Space Shuttle’s liftoff. ---
**Author:** ![Machine\_Elf](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/82dd89/32.png) [@Machine\_Elf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Machine_Elf)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2010, 1:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doubling-energy-is-it-so-easy/535394/62 "2010-04-12T13:36:57Z")
> [@katunari](#): > > You are right, I’ll try stop drinking. > > I thought that H2 burns at a temperature between 1000-2000 C. Something similar to Space Shuttle’s liftoff. Yes, hydrogen burns pretty darn hot. That doesn’t change what I said in my previous post: if you use that energy to produce a breeze for high-altitude windmills to generate electricity, then that energy is not available for the combustion power plant to produce electricity. You can’t use that energy in both places. ---
**Author:** ![komolono](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/komolono/32/532_2.png) [@komolono](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/komolono)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2010, 2:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doubling-energy-is-it-so-easy/535394/63 "2010-04-12T14:48:56Z")
> [@Joe Frickin Friday](#): > > Yes, hydrogen burns pretty darn hot. That doesn’t change what I said in my previous post: if you use that energy to produce a breeze for high-altitude windmills to generate electricity, then that energy is not available for the combustion power plant to produce electricity. You can’t use that energy in both places. What if the windmill or somekind of paddle wheels were inside the damn pipe? ---
**Author:** ![Machine\_Elf](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/82dd89/32.png) [@Machine\_Elf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Machine_Elf)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2010, 3:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doubling-energy-is-it-so-easy/535394/64 "2010-04-12T15:13:51Z")
> [@katunari](#): > > What if the windmill or somekind of paddle wheels were inside the damn pipe? Refer to my earlier posts: if you take energy out at point A, it will not be available at point B. ---
**Author:** ![johnpost](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/f17d59/32.png) [@johnpost](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/johnpost)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2010, 3:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doubling-energy-is-it-so-easy/535394/65 "2010-04-12T15:21:37Z")
entropy is important when considering a process or machine. every process is inefficient and each transition contributes to that loss. ---
**Author:** ![Machine\_Elf](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/82dd89/32.png) [@Machine\_Elf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Machine_Elf)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2010, 3:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doubling-energy-is-it-so-easy/535394/66 "2010-04-12T15:37:34Z")
> [@johnpost](#): > > entropy is important when considering a process or machine. every process is inefficient and each transition contributes to that loss. That’s the [second law of thermodynamics.](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Second_law_of_thermodynamics) The OP has yet to fully comprehend the implications of the _first_ law, so I wasn’t even going to try getting into the inefficiencies that are inherent in each step. ---
**Author:** ![komolono](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/komolono/32/532_2.png) [@komolono](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/komolono)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2010, 2:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doubling-energy-is-it-so-easy/535394/67 "2010-04-13T02:49:13Z")
> [@Joe Frickin Friday](#): > > That’s the [second law of thermodynamics.](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Second_law_of_thermodynamics) The OP has yet to fully comprehend the implications of the _first_ law, so I wasn’t even going to try getting into the inefficiencies that are inherent in each step. I recalculated the potentional gravitational energy of one mole of water and found out an error (a big one) in the original schema. I was using 18 for watermolecules mass - it is 0,018. So instead of double it’s way off. I might as well face the fact that these fancy pills will not double my penis’ size and forget the lifetime free membership for the spa at the great Lake of Western Sahara. Thanks anyway. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doubling-energy-is-it-so-easy/535394.md?page=3)