# Douchbags in AA – EVERYONE isn’t a drunk just because you are! **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [February 4, 2013, 12:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/douchbags-in-aa-everyone-isn-t-a-drunk-just-because-you-are/649271 "2013-02-04T00:16:29Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Blackberry](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/ecd19e/32.png) [@Blackberry](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Blackberry)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2013, 4:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/douchbags-in-aa-everyone-isn-t-a-drunk-just-because-you-are/649271/41 "2013-02-04T04:43:51Z")
> [@MeanOldLady](#): > > Hear, hear! I know someone in Al Anon because her dad has a problem, and _every single time_ I order a drink, she has to make a fucking comment about it. SHUT THE FUCK UP already. I’m sorry that your dad has a problem, but the rest of us want to have a fucking drink without hearing any of your lip. I do not consume what other people are consuming ever unless I want some of it. Ugh. My dad is an alcoholic so my mom is even more annoying about that because of the genetic thing and the fact that she’s the biggest worrier and nagger in the entire world. I don’t have any Buzz Killington friends though, they all drink too. I did once briefly date a guy who acted uncomfortable when I offered him a drink (and he wasn’t a complete nondrinker, he said he had a drink or two maybe twice a year). Maybe I just need to grow up but I can’t date someone I can’t go get fucked up with every so often. ---
**Author:** ![Nava](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/da6949/32.png) [@Nava](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nava)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2013, 5:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/douchbags-in-aa-everyone-isn-t-a-drunk-just-because-you-are/649271/42 "2013-02-04T05:35:02Z")
> [@dropzone](#): > > Not to continue this hijack or anything, but I was at the pharmacy once where there was a sign advertising a contest by a brand of insulin where the first prize was a trip to Vienna. Why anybody who cannot eat desserts would want to go to Vienna is beyond me. > > Same pharmacy was the first place I saw Fleet enema stuffed toys: [http://www.awmok.com/2009/09/18/not-your-average-superhero/](http://www.awmok.com/2009/09/18/not-your-average-superhero/) 😕 My brother just came back from a one-week trip to Vienna and he doesn’t even mention desserts in his recap of the trip. Mom asked about them and he just looked at her funny and reminded her he has never liked sweet desserts. - Concert by one of his favorite bands, check. - Concert in the same hall where the New Year’s Concert is held, and by sheer luck getting a first-row ticket, check. - Organ concert for free in a baroque church, check. - So many huge palaces he eventually got tired of them, check. - Spanish-style horse training, check. - Two other concerts. - OK food in general, and one meal in a really fancy, very old café, with dishes that were so pretty and “assembled” they should count as edible sculptures, in enough amounts to satisfy a 30yo male with a healthy appetite. If your only reason to go to Vienna is the desserts don’t bother, no cake in the world is worth the cost of flight and stay. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2013, 5:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/douchbags-in-aa-everyone-isn-t-a-drunk-just-because-you-are/649271/43 "2013-02-04T05:38:37Z")
> [@Hamlet](#): > > And I suppose I have to pay for the hookers and blow myself? > > Good day sir. I SAID GOOD DAY!!! I have saved quite a bit of money over the years by serving the blow first, then telling the party goers about the good time they had with the hookers the next morning. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2013, 6:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/douchbags-in-aa-everyone-isn-t-a-drunk-just-because-you-are/649271/44 "2013-02-04T06:34:15Z")
> [@Hamlet](#): > > And I suppose I have to pay for the hookers and blow myself? Well if you have to blow yourself, you should at least get a refund on the hookers. ---
**Author:** ![needscoffee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/needscoffee/32/1076_2.png) [@needscoffee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/needscoffee)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2013, 6:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/douchbags-in-aa-everyone-isn-t-a-drunk-just-because-you-are/649271/45 "2013-02-04T06:35:23Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > You come to any party of mine, and your food and soft drink tab is paid. Wait, you charge all the rest? Profit!!! ---
**Author:** ![Beastly\_Rotter](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/45deac/32.png) [@Beastly\_Rotter](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Beastly_Rotter)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2013, 7:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/douchbags-in-aa-everyone-isn-t-a-drunk-just-because-you-are/649271/46 "2013-02-04T07:43:11Z")
> [@Cat\_Whisperer](#): > > There are no proselytizers like the newly converted. The traditional version is “none so pure as the purified”. ---
**Author:** ![MsRobyn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/90ced4/32.png) [@MsRobyn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MsRobyn)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2013, 12:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/douchbags-in-aa-everyone-isn-t-a-drunk-just-because-you-are/649271/47 "2013-02-04T12:39:35Z")
> [@Gagundathar](#): > > My dear spouse and I ran a transitional home for homeless men, women and children. During that time, I was exposed to AA. While I am certain that the camaraderie instilled by having a common goal has allowed many folks to return to a modicum of normality in their lives, AA is by no means a panacea. > One of the problems I have always had with the program is that it is based upon _ **helplessness** _. This is antithetical to the message we tried to convey to our program’s participants. Being personally responsible for your actions is hard to teach when the concept that ‘you are powerless’ against the evils of demon rum is being promoted as the ONLY method of recovery. > > And, recovering addicts of all flavors are quite sanctimonious in general. > It goes with the territory. My Al-Anon sponsor pointed something out to me a while back that really drove this point home. She said that AA teaches members how not to drink, and how to avoid alcohol. It doesn’t teach independence, emotional maturity, or how to change behavior. Instead, it teaches helplessness, extreme selfishness, and gaslights the hell out of its members because it teaches that sobriety is impossible without the group and that feelings, emotions, and relationships are not to be trusted. If you’re happy about something not related to alcoholism or AA, you’re on a “pink cloud” and you might drink. If you’re upset or angry about something, you’re reminded that “anger is a luxury of normal men” and told to “let it go” without processing it. If a loved one joins Al-Anon, you are told that she will learn to throw you under the bus because she won’t support you 100%. If you do something that would horrify anyone in civil society, such as adultery, you’re “being true to yourself”. If you dare make a decision for yourself, without consulting the group, the group will try to bring you to heel. And if you figure out that you don’t really want to be in AA, you’re sarcastically declared “cured” and the group consensus will be that you’ll “relapse”. Bullshit like this is why I decided to formalize my divorce from AA. It wasn’t a healthy relationship I needed to be in. ---
**Author:** ![PoorYorick](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ecccb3/32.png) [@PoorYorick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PoorYorick)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2013, 1:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/douchbags-in-aa-everyone-isn-t-a-drunk-just-because-you-are/649271/48 "2013-02-04T13:05:36Z")
> [@drewtwo99](#): > > There are probably a lot of alcoholics who never destroy their lives, or livers, or their family’s lives, because they are addicted to just having a few beers every night or every weekend and that’s as far as it goes. I was kind of with you until this. The amount of alcohol you drink isn’t necessarily the hallmark of alcoholism, but it’s a damn useful baseline. I’ve never heard of someone addicted to, say, two drinks a night. If you’re an addict, then two drinks will turn into three, then four, and so on. That’s kind of how addiction works: One is too many and a hundred isn’t enough. ---
**Author:** ![don\_t\_ask](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e68b1a/32.png) [@don\_t\_ask](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/don_t_ask)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2013, 1:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/douchbags-in-aa-everyone-isn-t-a-drunk-just-because-you-are/649271/49 "2013-02-04T13:11:14Z")
I think the truest alcoholic of them all is Eric Clapton who said, “In my lowest moments, the only reason I didn’t commit suicide was that I knew I wouldn’t be able to drink anymore if I was dead.” Now that’s an alcoholic. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2013, 1:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/douchbags-in-aa-everyone-isn-t-a-drunk-just-because-you-are/649271/50 "2013-02-04T13:16:59Z")
> [@PoorYorick](#): > > I was kind of with you until this. The amount of alcohol you drink isn’t necessarily the hallmark of alcoholism, but it’s a damn useful baseline. I’ve never heard of someone addicted to, say, two drinks a night. If you’re an addict, then two drinks will turn into three, then four, and so on. That’s kind of how addiction works: One is too many and a hundred isn’t enough. Yeah. I don’t really find this definition of “alcoholic” useful, and poking around the web, I don’t find that it matches other definitions. Alcoholism is generally defined as drinking too much on a regular basis, to the detriment of health and happiness. Drinking on a regular basis is not alcoholism, any more than eating a cookie every night is obesity. ---
**Author:** ![FoieGrasIsEvil](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/foiegrasisevil/32/16638_2.png) [@FoieGrasIsEvil](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FoieGrasIsEvil)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2013, 1:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/douchbags-in-aa-everyone-isn-t-a-drunk-just-because-you-are/649271/51 "2013-02-04T13:55:15Z")
> [@Absolute](#): > > I’ve met a few people like that. I think it is largely driven by an unwillingness to admit that they’re different from anyone else. \*\*Rather than accept that some people can handle alcohol, and they themselves cannot, \*\*they tell themselves “These guys have an alcohol problem too - at least I was strong enough to face it.” Which is funny as its the essential tenet of AA. “I admit that I am powerless over alcohol” or something like that. ---
**Author:** ![Jackmannii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jackmannii/32/311_2.png) [@Jackmannii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jackmannii)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2013, 2:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/douchbags-in-aa-everyone-isn-t-a-drunk-just-because-you-are/649271/52 "2013-02-04T14:02:17Z")
Did anyone suggest to the proselytizing alcoholic in the OP that attending a Super Bowl party is not the best strategy for avoiding booze? As counterpoint to the newly righteous or sanctimonious people who lecture others on drinking, there are the moderate to heavy drinkers who find it necessary to sneer at or ostracize non-drinkers on social occasions. > [@dropzone](#): > > Not to continue this hijack or anything, but I was at the pharmacy once where there was a sign advertising a contest by a brand of insulin where the first prize was a trip to Vienna. Reminds me of the time a hospital I work at opened up a bariatric treatment center (weight-loss surgery), and announced over the P.A. system that everyone was invited to the grand opening, where cake and cookies would be served. :smack: ---
**Author:** ![Chimera](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/8e8cbc/32.png) [@Chimera](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chimera)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2013, 2:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/douchbags-in-aa-everyone-isn-t-a-drunk-just-because-you-are/649271/53 "2013-02-04T14:03:41Z")
Which is kind of silly. Asceding all power and surrendering the idea that you have power over something is a rather ineffective way to reclaim your power over it. ---
**Author:** ![Living\_Well\_Is\_Best\_Revenge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/6bbea6/32.png) [@Living\_Well\_Is\_Best\_Revenge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Living_Well_Is_Best_Revenge)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2013, 2:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/douchbags-in-aa-everyone-isn-t-a-drunk-just-because-you-are/649271/54 "2013-02-04T14:41:17Z")
> [@drewtwo99](#): > > The _amount_ you drink is not what makes you an alcoholic. It’s the addiction to any amount. If you just can’t make it several nights without having a beer, you’re an alcoholic, because you have an addiction. You may not be a drunk or be ruining your life, but it’s not a good place to be. If you drink on occasion but have no compulsive desire to drink then you’re not an alcoholic. If you enjoy having a beer every night but it doesn’t bother you if you run out for a few days, you’re not an alcoholic. It’s all about the addiction. There are probably a lot of alcoholics who never destroy their lives, or livers, or their family’s lives, because they are addicted to just having a few beers every night or every weekend and that’s as far as it goes. There’s nothing inherently _wrong_ with being an alcoholic, it’s just an addiction that needs to be managed like any other. For some people, the only way to manage it is to never allow themselves to drink ANY amount, because one drink leads to another and too many. But that’s not the solution for everyone, nor should it be. The post is chock full of bullshit but I am too hungover to elaborate. ---
**Author:** ![Gagundathar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/a183cd/32.png) [@Gagundathar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gagundathar)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2013, 3:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/douchbags-in-aa-everyone-isn-t-a-drunk-just-because-you-are/649271/55 "2013-02-04T15:49:39Z")
> [@MsRobyn](#): > > My Al-Anon sponsor pointed something out to me a while back that really drove this point home. She said that AA teaches members how not to drink, and how to avoid alcohol. It doesn’t teach independence, emotional maturity, or how to change behavior. Instead, it teaches helplessness, extreme selfishness, and gaslights the hell out of its members because it teaches that sobriety is impossible without the group and that feelings, emotions, and relationships are not to be trusted. If you’re happy about something not related to alcoholism or AA, you’re on a “pink cloud” and you might drink. If you’re upset or angry about something, you’re reminded that “anger is a luxury of normal men” and told to “let it go” without processing it. If a loved one joins Al-Anon, you are told that she will learn to throw you under the bus because she won’t support you 100%. If you do something that would horrify anyone in civil society, such as adultery, you’re “being true to yourself”. If you dare make a decision for yourself, without consulting the group, the group will try to bring you to heel. And if you figure out that you don’t really want to be in AA, you’re sarcastically declared “cured” and the group consensus will be that you’ll “relapse”. > > Bullshit like this is why I decided to formalize my divorce from AA. It wasn’t a healthy relationship I needed to be in. Thank you very much. I have been assailed by others (not here, but elsewhere) who have told me that my attitude is actively evil and that I am responsible for good people staying addicted to alcohol. Holding an unpopular opinion can really be unpleasant. ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2013, 3:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/douchbags-in-aa-everyone-isn-t-a-drunk-just-because-you-are/649271/56 "2013-02-04T15:50:25Z")
> [@dropzone](#): > > Why anybody who cannot eat desserts would want to go to Vienna is beyond me. For the sausages, of course. ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2013, 3:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/douchbags-in-aa-everyone-isn-t-a-drunk-just-because-you-are/649271/57 "2013-02-04T15:54:11Z")
> [@Blackberry](#): > > Maybe I just need to grow up but I can’t date someone I can’t go get fucked up with every so often. “Fucked up” is exactly what I dislike about alcohol. I don’t like being around people who are drinking because I don’t like the way it changes their personalities, or at least gives them license to do so. I have no problem when people drink just because they like it, but when they use it as a vehicle or an excuse to behave differently, that’s when I make my exit. ---
**Author:** ![LibrarySpy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/f9ae1b/32.png) [@LibrarySpy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LibrarySpy)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2013, 4:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/douchbags-in-aa-everyone-isn-t-a-drunk-just-because-you-are/649271/58 "2013-02-04T16:01:08Z")
**MsRobyn** , it sounds like Al-Anon taught you exactly what you needed–how to cope and separate yourself from alcoholics and their curse. Break out of the cycle of trying to change them, trying to blame them, trying to enable them. Isn’t that a good thing? Doesn’t that mean Al-Anon was successful for you? ---
**Author:** ![bup](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/6bbea6/32.png) [@bup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bup)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2013, 4:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/douchbags-in-aa-everyone-isn-t-a-drunk-just-because-you-are/649271/59 "2013-02-04T16:03:51Z")
> [@Jackmannii](#): > > Did anyone suggest to the proselytizing alcoholic in the OP that attending a Super Bowl party is not the best strategy for avoiding booze? Oh, fuck yes. If I had to give up pancakes but went to a party at IHOP I’d be a dick too. Who told him he had to be at this stupid Super Bowl party? ---
**Author:** ![Ludovic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7ab992/32.png) [@Ludovic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ludovic)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2013, 4:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/douchbags-in-aa-everyone-isn-t-a-drunk-just-because-you-are/649271/60 "2013-02-04T16:08:48Z")
I’m surprised I don’t get more of this from my family, as my grandfather died in his 50s from alcoholism, my dad is in AA now (don’t know why, I’ve never known him to get drunk or have a problem when he was drunk,) and my mom after her divorce was in relationships with several alcoholics and was in Al Anon. I’m surprised that they allow me to mention drinking at all without going all “you’re an alcoholic!” on me. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/douchbags-in-aa-everyone-isn-t-a-drunk-just-because-you-are/649271.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/douchbags-in-aa-everyone-isn-t-a-drunk-just-because-you-are/649271.md?page=4)