# Dougie\_monty is an immoral cultist **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [August 20, 2014, 1:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dougie_monty-is-an-immoral-cultist/695993 "2014-08-20T13:31:30Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Budget\_Player\_Cadet](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/budget_player_cadet/32/205_2.png) [@Budget\_Player\_Cadet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Budget_Player_Cadet)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2014, 1:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dougie_monty-is-an-immoral-cultist/695993/1 "2014-08-20T13:31:30Z")
From a thread about Jehovah’s Witnesses (because _of course_ it is), talking about the victims of shunning and the reasons for it: > [@](#): > > I was disfellowshipped at the age of 16 for drinking and “hooking up” with the elders daughter … basically being a common teenager. My whole family turned me away - I was homeless from 16 - 18. I was able to create a great life for myself as time went on but haven’t spoken with my parents since I was 16. I’m now 31 and I have no clue who they are. > [@](#): > > I was publicly reproved as a young teen, then [disfellowshipped] at 20 and fervently returned to meetings so that I could get my social and family life back. Only after I was reinstated did I start to think, “If I’m spiritually sick… shouldn’t this be the time that I get EVEN MORE help and assistance and support?” Especially considering that I was young, pregnant, getting married, moving… I needed my family more than ever and they treated me so poorly. I often cried myself to sleep. What kind of loving God would allow that to happen in his organization? > [@Would it be evil for me to give Jehovah Witnesses handouts from JWFacts.com when they come here?](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-it-be-evil-for-me-to-give-jehovah-witnesses-handouts-from-jwfacts-com-when-they-come-here/695774/99): > > Those poor oppressed drinkers (“normal”? In a pig’s eye!), and unwed mothers…how dare anyone reproach them? :rolleyes: “Drinkers”? Um, what? First of all, there’s absolutely fuck-all wrong with casual alcohol use if you aren’t hurting anyone. And this person probably isn’t some alcoholic; it’s a teenager who, for all we know, got drunk one night at a party. You know, _dumb teenager stuff_. The kind of mistakes (although I seriously hesitate to call it that!) people make when they’re that age. And the result was a 16-year-old being shunned by their family, kicked out of their home, and living on the street. Let me just put this into perspective for you. _ **You are trying to justify throwing a child out on the street and cutting off almost all of their social and familial contacts for drinking alcohol and having premarital sex.** _ _ **What the fuck is wrong with you?!** _ And you wonder why we find you and the cult you belong to reprehensible. This wasn’t even a moral issue (save perhaps for the issue of self-harm with drugs) until the shunning started. From an ethical standpoint, this person did nothing wrong, and yet suffered greatly for it. And the “unwed mother” thing? Fuck your overbearing sexual “morality”. She was engaged, it’s not immoral or unreasonable to have children without being married or even in a relationship, and for her to be cut off from her entire family and many of her friends for that? You want to justify that by judging her as immoral? By pointing out how she did this eeeevil thing that justifies reproach? Reproach is one thing, this is _ostracism_ in an extreme and damaging way for extremely minor offenses - or even just a lack of constant participation and engagement! “Judge not, lest thee be judged” indeed. I’m sorry, but the fact that you think the above is okay is a testament to how complete your moral failings are. > [@Would it be evil for me to give Jehovah Witnesses handouts from JWFacts.com when they come here?](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-it-be-evil-for-me-to-give-jehovah-witnesses-handouts-from-jwfacts-com-when-they-come-here/695774/66): > > To answer your first question: I am. > Second question: I very likely would. With my dismal social history I have little to lose anyway. This is a bit of a low blow, but is it any wonder? You’re part of an exclusionary cult and hold opinions that many would quite reasonably consider abhorrent. Your circle of friends is basically limited to the cross-section between JWs and people who can put up with obnoxious, pedantic, thuggish, immoral douchebags. If I knew you, I’d probably stop communicating with you. Not because my religion demands it. Not because you did something minor. But because you’re in an immoral cult and hold incredibly immoral beliefs. Anyone who believes otherwise should spend a few minutes [here](http://jwfacts.com/watchtower/experiences/short-shunning-experiences.php). But it takes a special kind of asshole to look at that top example and say, “Oh, he drank at some point, therefore it’s perfectly justified to shove him out onto the street”. That asshole is you, **dougie**. Congratulations - step up to receive your trophy and complementary shit shower. ---
**Author:** ![bump](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7c8e57/32.png) [@bump](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bump)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2014, 1:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dougie_monty-is-an-immoral-cultist/695993/2 "2014-08-20T13:53:59Z")
Not to junior mod, but without a link to the actual thread and posts, it’s a little hard to see exactly where your frothing outrage comes from. Underage drinking and teen pregnancy are both things that while extremely common, aren’t exactly good or smart things to do for anyone, and probably deserve more reproach than we give them, although being cast out and made homeless is way, way over the top. ---
**Author:** ![Great\_Antibob](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e47c2d/32.png) [@Great\_Antibob](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Great_Antibob)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2014, 2:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dougie_monty-is-an-immoral-cultist/695993/3 "2014-08-20T14:00:12Z")
> [@bump](#): > > Not to junior mod, but without a link to the actual thread and posts, Two of the quote boxes have direct links to the posts. ---
**Author:** ![andros](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e480ec/32.png) [@andros](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/andros)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2014, 2:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dougie_monty-is-an-immoral-cultist/695993/4 "2014-08-20T14:32:46Z")
> [@Budget\_Player\_Cadet](#): > > **Dougie\_monty is an immoral cultist** Well, he certainly used to be: > [@Would it be evil for me to give Jehovah Witnesses handouts from JWFacts.com when they come here?](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-it-be-evil-for-me-to-give-jehovah-witnesses-handouts-from-jwfacts-com-when-they-come-here/695774/60): > > I was an Amway distributor ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2014, 2:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dougie_monty-is-an-immoral-cultist/695993/5 "2014-08-20T14:41:14Z")
Perhaps you could put him on Ignore. Oh wait… Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![Emtar\_KronJonDerSohn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/58956e/32.png) [@Emtar\_KronJonDerSohn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Emtar_KronJonDerSohn)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2014, 2:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dougie_monty-is-an-immoral-cultist/695993/6 "2014-08-20T14:59:20Z")
Mom!!! Dougie’s doing religion wrong! ---
**Author:** ![dougie\_monty](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/439d5e/32.png) [@dougie\_monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dougie_monty)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2014, 4:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dougie_monty-is-an-immoral-cultist/695993/7 "2014-08-20T16:17:12Z")
All right, Cadet, you have expressed your outrage at me. Maybe to you I AM the most hated person in the world. But let me make a defense, okay? Where did I say this guy–was his drinking one isolated incident?–was or should be ostracized in any way? Please give the post number. As for the girl who got pregnant–was she raped? If so, were the police notified? If it was consensual–and it could only be so if he were also underage ( otherwise it’s statutory rape) then her parents would certainly be wrong to ‘turn her away.’ To this extent I would agree. As for the unfortunate sisters, one suffering from Down Syndrome, I meant what I said. And I never heard of any family, Witnesses or otherwise, segregating their children like that. In any case, I would want to know if these examples are typical or if someone has stacked the deck. When I was in my teen years I was not of a mind to seek out drinkers or unwed mothers and attack them in some way–and I haven’t changed my attitude since. Now, Cadet, let’s see how much of an upstanding Boy Scout YOU are. ---
**Author:** ![andros](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e480ec/32.png) [@andros](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/andros)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2014, 4:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dougie_monty-is-an-immoral-cultist/695993/8 "2014-08-20T16:26:56Z")
> [@dougie\_monty](#): > > When I was in my teen years I was not of a mind to seek out drinkers or unwed mothers and attack them in some way–and I haven’t changed my attitude since. …except for the “attacking” part? Color me perplexed, but it really looks like you’re denying doing something that you demonstrably did. ---
**Author:** ![GrandWino](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/grandwino/32/67_2.png) [@GrandWino](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GrandWino)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2014, 4:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dougie_monty-is-an-immoral-cultist/695993/9 "2014-08-20T16:31:40Z")
Oh good, another BPC pit thread. These always go swimmingly. ---
**Author:** ![dougie\_monty](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/439d5e/32.png) [@dougie\_monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dougie_monty)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2014, 4:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dougie_monty-is-an-immoral-cultist/695993/10 "2014-08-20T16:33:55Z")
> [@andros](#): > > …except for the “attacking” part? > > Color me perplexed, but it really looks like you’re denying doing something that you demonstrably did. Don’t put words in my mouth, Andros. I don’t make any exceptions. “Demonstrably?” Explanation, please. ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2014, 4:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dougie_monty-is-an-immoral-cultist/695993/11 "2014-08-20T16:38:20Z")
It always blows my mind when I remember _Prince_ is a Jehova’s Witness. ---
**Author:** ![PorchePine](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/94ad74/32.png) [@PorchePine](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PorchePine)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2014, 4:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dougie_monty-is-an-immoral-cultist/695993/12 "2014-08-20T16:42:13Z")
> [@dougie\_monty](#): > > Don’t put words in my mouth, Andros. I don’t make any exceptions. > “Demonstrably?” Explanation, please. Demonstrably–meaning it can be demonstrated. You demonstrably claimed to have a dictionary–use it. ---
**Author:** ![Revtim](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/revtim/32/1042_2.png) [@Revtim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Revtim)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2014, 5:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dougie_monty-is-an-immoral-cultist/695993/13 "2014-08-20T17:23:55Z")
> [@MrDibble](#): > > It always blows my mind when I remember _Prince_ is a Jehova’s Witness. Michael Jackson was too, although I cannot say if he was one still when he died. ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2014, 5:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dougie_monty-is-an-immoral-cultist/695993/14 "2014-08-20T17:26:42Z")
> [@Revtim](#): > > Michael Jackson was too, although I cannot say if he was one still when he died. That was the family religion, though, wasn’t it? Prince only converted in 2001 or somesuch. ---
**Author:** ![Revtim](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/revtim/32/1042_2.png) [@Revtim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Revtim)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2014, 5:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dougie_monty-is-an-immoral-cultist/695993/15 "2014-08-20T17:29:26Z")
No idea. ---
**Author:** ![Budget\_Player\_Cadet](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/budget_player_cadet/32/205_2.png) [@Budget\_Player\_Cadet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Budget_Player_Cadet)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2014, 5:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dougie_monty-is-an-immoral-cultist/695993/16 "2014-08-20T17:35:17Z")
> [@dougie\_monty](#): > > All right, Cadet, you have expressed your outrage at me. Maybe to you I AM the most hated person in the world. > But let me make a defense, okay? > > Where did I say this guy–was his drinking one isolated incident?–was or should be ostracized in any way? Please give the post number. > As for the girl who got pregnant–was she raped? If so, were the police notified? If it was consensual–and it could only be so if he were also underage ( otherwise it’s statutory rape) then her parents would certainly be wrong to ‘turn her away.’ To this extent I would agree. > As for the unfortunate sisters, one suffering from Down Syndrome, I meant what I said. And I never heard of any family, Witnesses or otherwise, segregating their children like that. > > In any case, I would want to know if these examples are typical or if someone has stacked the deck. > When I was in my teen years I was not of a mind to seek out drinkers or unwed mothers and attack them in some way–and I haven’t changed my attitude since. > > Now, Cadet, let’s see how much of an upstanding Boy Scout YOU are. Here is the immediate context of your quote. > [@](#): > > I want to make sure I understand your view correctly. Are you saying that you don’t see anything wrong with stories these: > \ [QUOTE=you] Those poor oppressed drinkers (“normal”? In a pig’s eye!), and unwed mothers…how dare anyone reproach them? :rolleyes: [/QUOTE] That first bit was a response to you [wondering how anyone could object to such shunning practices in the first place](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?p=17648559#post17648559)! If you don’t hold the position that these actions were justified, well then I’m sorry, but you need to work on communicating better! When someone asks you “Just to be clear, you don’t see anything wrong with doing this horrible thing to these people” and your response is “fuck those people!”, _999 times out of a thousand, that will be read as “no, I don’t see anything wrong with that”._ You made it very clear to us that you had no problem with this person being ostracized in the post I quoted in the OP. Post 98 of that thread. Of course, your defense of that is horrible, but it’s not quite as bad as the whole attitude here. You’ve been given countless examples of people who lost friends and family because they either lapsed in belief or did something the religious group found objectionable or even just stopped participating as actively! And the result? Well, the rules are apparently pretty clear - they aren’t to be associated with. That’s antisocial behavior. That’s \*cult \*behavior. And you see nothing wrong with it. It’s not about seeking these people out, mind you - it’s about being willing, on the drop of a hat, to completely abandon people who you know and love and may even be related to. I’d probably not start a relationship with someone I knew had a heroin addiction. But if my current girlfriend of almost 2 years started taking it, I would move heaven and earth to help her before I even think about abandoning her, and I wouldn’t abandon her unless the addiction started to hurt me and my life in a nasty way. You know, because I _care_ about this person. These are not random people you choose not to associate with. These are FRIENDS AND FAMILY! That kid who got drunk and fucked the elder’s daughter? He got to watch as one childish mistake (that didn’t even hurt anybody!) led to his family completely turning their backs on him - as though he had shown up at grandpa’s funeral and skullfucked the corpse, then used its spine to strangle grandma. This is what this kind of shunning does. As if being told “you will never get to heaven” isn’t bad enough. Will you renounce this behavior? Will you say “No, I do not stand for this”? Because when given the chance earlier, your response was basically “Ha ha, serves 'em right!”. That’s insanely dickish. ---
**Author:** ![Lord\_Ashtar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7ea924/32.png) [@Lord\_Ashtar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lord_Ashtar)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2014, 6:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dougie_monty-is-an-immoral-cultist/695993/17 "2014-08-20T18:25:49Z")
> [@Revtim](#): > > Michael Jackson was too, although I cannot say if he was one still when he died. I could’ve sworn I remembered Michael Jackson having converted to Islam. ---
**Author:** ![Knowed\_Out](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/knowed_out/32/7380_2.png) [@Knowed\_Out](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Knowed_Out)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2014, 6:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dougie_monty-is-an-immoral-cultist/695993/18 "2014-08-20T18:26:28Z")
I don’t know how old dougie is, but before finding out he was a JW, my impression was that he was an isolated 12-year old. When challenged on any of his convictions, he would either answer with a poo-poo diaper joke, or avoid the question with something like “I’ll look it up in the dictionary when I get home.” He’s obviously not interested in knowledgeable discourse. He’s just enjoying the negative attention and tallying his martyr points. ---
**Author:** ![Drunky\_Smurf](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/drunky_smurf/32/449_2.png) [@Drunky\_Smurf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Drunky_Smurf)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2014, 6:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dougie_monty-is-an-immoral-cultist/695993/19 "2014-08-20T18:31:21Z")
> [@Budget\_Player\_Cadet](#): > > That kid who got drunk and fucked the elder’s daughter? He got to watch as one childish mistake (that didn’t even hurt anybody!) You don’t know that. Maybe he gave her the HIV. I here that’s going around. ---
**Author:** ![Loach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/loach/32/350_2.png) [@Loach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Loach)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2014, 6:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dougie_monty-is-an-immoral-cultist/695993/20 "2014-08-20T18:34:41Z")
Pitting dougie is like kicking a puppy. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dougie_monty-is-an-immoral-cultist/695993.md?page=2)