# Down Goes Eric Cantor **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [June 11, 2014, 12:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/down-goes-eric-cantor/690516 "2014-06-11T00:05:06Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 15
**Author:** ![Dr.Drake](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ad7895/32.png) [@Dr.Drake](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr.Drake)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2014, 7:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/down-goes-eric-cantor/690516/281 "2014-06-13T19:14:57Z")
> [@Miller](#): > > Woo! You went to a parade! > > What, exactly, is the legislative record on gay rights of the Republicans you’ve put into office? Going to a parade doesn’t make you an ally, it makes you a tourist. What matters is what you do in the voting booth. And if you’re regularly throwing gay people under the bus so you can pay slightly lower tax, why exactly should I have any sympathy for you if you end up getting some of your party’s unrelenting torrent of hateful bullshit smeared on your hands? As a gay person, this really bothers me. \*\*WHERE WERE THE DEMOCRATS WHEN WE NEEDED YOU?\*\*Throwing us under the bus as an easy target, right along with the Republicans. As of 2011, neither party could reliably claim to be an ally of gay people. Things are changing, and that’s fantastic. But this is not an area where one party has the moral high ground. It’s an area where the Republicans occupy morally lower ground, is all. ---
**Author:** ![Onomatopoeia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/onomatopoeia/32/4145_2.png) [@Onomatopoeia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Onomatopoeia)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2014, 7:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/down-goes-eric-cantor/690516/282 "2014-06-13T19:43:06Z")
> [@Dr.Drake](#): > > As a gay person, this really bothers me. \*\*WHERE WERE THE DEMOCRATS WHEN WE NEEDED YOU?\*\*Throwing us under the bus as an easy target, right along with the Republicans. > > As of 2011, neither party could reliably claim to be an ally of gay people. Things are changing, and that’s fantastic. But this is not an area where one party has the moral high ground. It’s an area where the Republicans occupy morally lower ground, is all. This. Republicans are absolutely terrible, but Democrats don’t have much to crow about, really. ---
**Author:** ![Inner\_Stickler](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/inner_stickler/32/318_2.png) [@Inner\_Stickler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Inner_Stickler)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2014, 7:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/down-goes-eric-cantor/690516/283 "2014-06-13T19:52:58Z")
When it’s a choice between being ignored and being punched, I’ll take being ignored every time. ---
**Author:** ![Dr.Drake](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ad7895/32.png) [@Dr.Drake](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr.Drake)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2014, 7:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/down-goes-eric-cantor/690516/284 "2014-06-13T19:55:38Z")
> [@Inner\_Stickler](#): > > When it’s a choice between being ignored and being punched, I’ll take being ignored every time. But it wasn’t a choice between being ignored and being punched. It was a choice between being punched in the face and being punched in the nuts. Sure, I’ll take being punched in the face, too, but just don’t expect me to be grateful for it. ---
**Author:** ![Inner\_Stickler](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/inner_stickler/32/318_2.png) [@Inner\_Stickler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Inner_Stickler)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2014, 8:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/down-goes-eric-cantor/690516/285 "2014-06-13T20:14:44Z")
I don’t think anyone told you to? I don’t have any problems with the democratic party being criticized for their handling of LGBT issues. I criticize them quite frequently. Just don’t expect me, when I’m disenchanted with the Dems, to take you seriously when you suggest the GOP as a viable alternative. ---
**Author:** ![Ludovic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7ab992/32.png) [@Ludovic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ludovic)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2014, 8:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/down-goes-eric-cantor/690516/286 "2014-06-13T20:42:38Z")
> [@Dr.Drake](#): > > As of 2011, neither party could reliably claim to be an ally of gay people. Things are changing, and that’s fantastic. But this is not an area where one party has the moral high ground. It’s an area where the Republicans occupy morally lower ground, is all. Should incoming Democratic politicians, who have always held views of equality and have always been a member of a party which has been clearly better choice for equality as long as s/he has been a member (even if it is not perfect) be judged by former and current members who used to hold some anti-equality positions? (Taking a “yes” position on that only differs in size rather than flavor from trying to hold current Democratic politicians responsible for the southern democratic racism of a couple generations ago.) ---
**Author:** ![YogSothoth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/8edcca/32.png) [@YogSothoth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/YogSothoth)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2014, 8:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/down-goes-eric-cantor/690516/287 "2014-06-13T20:51:56Z")
> [@Dr.Drake](#): > > But it wasn’t a choice between being ignored and being punched. It was a choice between being punched in the face and being punched in the nuts. > > Sure, I’ll take being punched in the face, too, but just don’t expect me to be grateful for it. As a Democrat who defends their past behavior, here’s why: One party is moving towards progress, if slowly. The other longs to go backwards The modern Democratic party, after the divide that happened after the Civil Rights Act, has always been the party of progress, personal rights, and not beating you up over the head with it. Sometimes its happened slowly, but it happens. You should be grateful because while the logic hasn’t moved as fast as you’d like, it does move, and in the right direction. These are good people with bad opinions and like any strongly held belief, it takes time to change. Sure it can be tough especially if you are 10 steps ahead of them and annoyed at their glacial pace. But part of politics is that you must do what is tenable. Look at 2004. The GOP put a bunch of anti-gay propositions on the ballot and the Dems lost. Do you want that to happen again if we push too far? Even I, who thinks that we should just force everyone to accept gays, thinks that it would be a bad strategy. Plus, in the past, you cannot always count on science to back you. There are a lot of people dedicated to creating false “facts” to confuse people, and sometimes even Dems get suckered into it. Right now there’s a consensus, but 10 years ago? Or 20? Some people still thought science said gays were mentally ill! If you were a science-supporting liberal at the time and most scientists told you that its fact that gays were sick, would you want to step out on that ledge and say so against the tide? In the end, what would you accomplish? You’d get voted out and gay rights would lose another supporter in power and you’d push progress back another few years So yeah, I do think you should be grateful and happy at the Dems. They are your only shot, sure, but they are moving in the right direction. A lot of their beliefs have evolved, and I don’t say that sarcastically. Like Rob Portman, when you start getting to see up close and personal with friends and relatives that they are not what you pictured, your mind changes. So be grateful that the Dems are fighting for you and not against you. At the very least, don’t mention us in the same breath as the GOP. Direct your anger towards them. ---
**Author:** ![Dr.Drake](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ad7895/32.png) [@Dr.Drake](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr.Drake)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2014, 8:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/down-goes-eric-cantor/690516/288 "2014-06-13T20:58:50Z")
> [@Ludovic](#): > > Should incoming Democratic politicians, who have always held views of equality and have always been a member of a party which has been clearly better choice for equality as long as s/he has been a member (even if it is not perfect) be judged by former and current members who used to hold some anti-equality positions? (Taking a “yes” position on that only differs in size rather than flavor from trying to hold current Democratic politicians responsible for the southern democratic racism of a couple generations ago.) An individual should be held responsible for the platform of the party they choose to join. “I don’t like it, and I’m actively working to change it” is a fair position for any given Democrat or any given Republican. “It’s the lesser of two evils, and there’s no viable alternative” is not satisfactory. A party should be held responsible for its past views so long as there is institutional continuity. If the views of the past were not right, so long as the party is taking steps to redress them, that’s enough. The Democratic Party changed its platform in 2012, and that means that they tacitly acknowledge their past position was wrong. Repubalicans haven’t, which means that right now they are problematic in a way that Democrats aren’t. I just wanted to stress that this is a difference in reading the political winds for the past two years rather than a real substantive difference between the parties. Look, if you’re a minority of any sort, you know perfectly well what the difference is between a friend, a strong ally, and a weak ally. Democrats are weak allies, but they’re getting stronger. ---
**Author:** ![Budget\_Player\_Cadet](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/budget_player_cadet/32/205_2.png) [@Budget\_Player\_Cadet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Budget_Player_Cadet)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2014, 9:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/down-goes-eric-cantor/690516/289 "2014-06-13T21:30:45Z")
> [@Terr](#): > > It always amazes me when because of political partisanship people dub opponent politicians who have graduated from Yale, or Harvard, or have gotten PhDs or medical degrees/boards dumb or, in this case “dull pencils”. It’s stupid. “Dull pencils” do not manage to get PhDs, our higher education system simply does not allow it. I know dozens of people with doctorates - medical or others. Some of them hold political views that I consider stupid, but every one of these people is much more intelligent than average. Well, it’s either “he’s dumb” or “he’s maliciously dishonest”. Either he doesn’t understand the debt ceiling despite his degree in economics or he’s lying about it. ---
**Author:** ![Inner\_Stickler](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/inner_stickler/32/318_2.png) [@Inner\_Stickler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Inner_Stickler)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2014, 9:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/down-goes-eric-cantor/690516/290 "2014-06-13T21:34:18Z")
> [@Dr.Drake](#): > > An individual should be held responsible for the platform of the party they choose to join. “I don’t like it, and I’m actively working to change it” is a fair position for any given Democrat or any given Republican. “It’s the lesser of two evils, and there’s no viable alternative” is not satisfactory. Given that you skipped the country rather than “actively work to change it” are you sure you want to cast aspersions? ---
**Author:** ![Dr.Drake](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ad7895/32.png) [@Dr.Drake](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr.Drake)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2014, 9:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/down-goes-eric-cantor/690516/291 "2014-06-13T21:41:54Z")
> [@Inner\_Stickler](#): > > Given that you skipped the country rather than “actively work to change it” are you sure you want to cast aspersions? Sure. I’m still a citizen. I still pay taxes.\* I still vote. \*Well, file them: so far I don’t owe the US any because of the tax treaty. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2014, 9:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/down-goes-eric-cantor/690516/292 "2014-06-13T21:43:29Z")
> [@Dr.Drake](#): > > As of 2011, neither party could reliably claim to be an ally of gay people. Are gay people a reliable ally of either party? There are such things as homocons, I believe. ---
**Author:** ![Measure\_for\_Measure](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/measure_for_measure/32/557_2.png) [@Measure\_for\_Measure](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Measure_for_Measure)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2014, 10:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/down-goes-eric-cantor/690516/293 "2014-06-13T22:07:38Z")
I have to roll my eyes at Drake, given the Democrats’ consistent, if incremental, support for gay rights over the past 25 years. Yeah, yeah, yeah: Don’t ask don’t tell was better than that which preceded it, _and when Clinton made gay rights an issue early in his Presidency it destroyed his honeymoon_. It’s sort of pathetic when you don’t know who your friends are. ## The transgendered, OTOH, have a legitimate gripe in my view: they’ve been told to wait in the back of the bus, at least until the last couple of years. Back to the OP. Sessions doesn’t want the slot. The Tea Party had _nobody_ waiting in the wings: they had to scramble to find a candidate. And it turned out that Jeb Hensarling ®, who they finally settled on, decided to pass this one up. The fact is, nobody really wants the top 2 positions, which is why Boehner has survived for so long. What the modern Washington Republican craves is a slot on Fox News or an entry into the rubber chicken circuit. And positions of responsibility won’t get you that. All this is fine and well and I urge conservatives to stick to what they’re good at -mouthing off- and leave governance to the Democrats. ---
**Author:** ![Dr.Drake](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ad7895/32.png) [@Dr.Drake](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr.Drake)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2014, 10:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/down-goes-eric-cantor/690516/294 "2014-06-13T22:53:57Z")
> [@Measure\_for\_Measure](#): > > I have to roll my eyes at Drake, given the Democrats’ consistent, if incremental, support for gay rights over the past 25 years. Fair enough. I’m a little bitter because of the way the timing affected me. Certainly I’d always take the Democrats’ lukewarm support over the Tea Party’s outright evil. There’s no question the Brat / Cantor situation is bad for civil rights of all sorts. ---
**Author:** ![Omg\_a\_Black\_Conservative](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/7ba0ec/32.png) [@Omg\_a\_Black\_Conservative](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Omg_a_Black_Conservative)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2014, 11:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/down-goes-eric-cantor/690516/295 "2014-06-13T23:53:51Z")
> [@DigitalC](#): > > It’s hilarious when conservatives act all shocked that they are called out on their hate. You are the party of racism and misogyny and homophobia, the party of fear and ignorance. If it bothers you that much try to do something about it rather than getting pissy at being called on it. Every time this pissing contest pops up and I respond to it, you guys (and gals) hand wave it away. I mean, if we’re going this route, then I guess I could say that Democrats hate White men, White women, Southerners, minorities who vote Republican and the middle class. ---
**Author:** ![BDBoop](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/5e9695/32.png) [@BDBoop](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BDBoop)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2014, 11:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/down-goes-eric-cantor/690516/296 "2014-06-13T23:56:07Z")
> [@Dr.Drake](#): > > As a gay person, this really bothers me. \*\*WHERE WERE THE DEMOCRATS WHEN WE NEEDED YOU?\*\*Throwing us under the bus as an easy target, right along with the Republicans. > > As of 2011, neither party could reliably claim to be an ally of gay people. Things are changing, and that’s fantastic. But this is not an area where one party has the moral high ground. It’s an area where the Republicans occupy morally lower ground, is all. “Is all?” We’re not all interchangeable, you know. Most democrats are staunch allies to you and yours. If you weren’t some nameless, faceless on the internet, I’d be offended. ---
**Author:** ![Northern\_Piper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/northern_piper/32/5304_2.png) [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2014, 1:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/down-goes-eric-cantor/690516/297 "2014-06-14T01:34:39Z")
> [@Inner\_Stickler](#): > > Given that you skipped the country rather than “actively work to change it” are you sure you want to cast aspersions? That is a cheap shot. **Dr Drake** left the US so he could marry his true love, something that was not possible in the US and have the marriage recognised by the INS. There are limits to what it is reasonable to ask someone to do. Expecting someone to sacrifice love and happiness to work for political change is simply not reasonable, nor is it fair to criticize someone who chooses love and happiness in those circumstances. We can’t all be Rick Blaine or Victor Lazlo. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Johanna](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johanna/32/8318_2.png) [@Johanna](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johanna)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2014, 1:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/down-goes-eric-cantor/690516/298 "2014-06-14T01:35:58Z")
> [@Dr.Drake](#): > > But it wasn’t a choice between being ignored and being punched. It was a choice between being punched in the face and being punched in the nuts. > > Sure, I’ll take being punched in the face, too, but just don’t expect me to be grateful for it. Irish proverb [and try to imagine it being said in a Dublin accent]: When you’re expectin’ a kick in the balls, and you get a slap in the face—you’re comin’ out ahead! There’s something quintessentially Irish about that philosophy… says an American she-Mick ---
**Author:** ![Johanna](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johanna/32/8318_2.png) [@Johanna](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johanna)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2014, 1:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/down-goes-eric-cantor/690516/299 "2014-06-14T01:55:42Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > Are gay people a reliable ally of either party? There are such things as homocons, I believe. Eh, they’re a small minority of the LGBT movement, and an embarrassment to the rest of us. They’re exclusively well-to-do white men who sell out their LGBT sisters & brothers for the filthy lucre that they imagine the Republicans will bring them. They actually don’t count for much, on either side. They’d be pathetic if they weren’t exploiting their white male moneyed privilege to the detriment of… everybody else in the world. ---
**Author:** ![A\_nice\_guy\_with\_an\_opinion](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/76d3ee/32.png) [@A\_nice\_guy\_with\_an\_opinion](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/A_nice_guy_with_an_opinion)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2014, 2:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/down-goes-eric-cantor/690516/300 "2014-06-14T02:54:39Z")
> [@Omg\_a\_Black\_Conservative](#): > > Every time this pissing contest pops up and I respond to it, you guys (and gals) hand wave it away. I mean, if we’re going this route, then I guess I could say that Democrats hate White men, White women, Southerners, minorities who vote Republican and the middle class. Uncle tom!!! Heh. Keep it up. I am so tired of these double standards. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/down-goes-eric-cantor/690516.md?page=14) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/down-goes-eric-cantor/690516.md?page=16)