# Down Goes Eric Cantor **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [June 11, 2014, 12:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/down-goes-eric-cantor/690516 "2014-06-11T00:05:06Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 19
**Author:** ![Terr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/839c29/32.png) [@Terr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terr)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2014, 5:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/down-goes-eric-cantor/690516/361 "2014-06-17T05:15:33Z")
> [@Northern\_Piper](#): > > There are no legal restrictions in Canada (and other parliamentary democracies, so far as I know) on campaigning outside the writ period of the election. It’s simply not a very effective electoral strategy in our system, so it doesn’t happen. That’s probably because in parliamentary democracies in most cases you don’t know when the election is going to happen until it is called and THEN the short campaign season begins. United States has a much more orderly and fixed election schedule, and as a result it is, in fact, a very effective electoral strategy to start campaigning way in advance. ---
**Author:** ![Northern\_Piper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/northern_piper/32/5304_2.png) [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2014, 5:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/down-goes-eric-cantor/690516/362 "2014-06-17T05:34:12Z")
Now you’re shifting your argument, from non-existent legal restrictions on campaigning, to the structure of Parliament. I agree that it’s a structural difference, but it’s not tied to fixed elections. Many parliamentary systems have fixed election cycles, barring a government falling. The reason we don’t have lengthy campaigns is that the campaign is fought in Parliament. Every day, the Prime Minister is fighting in the Commons to keep his job, and the Leader of the Opposition is doing everything he can in the Commons to show that he would be a better Prime Minister. And, they’re all on the public salary, being paid to represent their constituents in Parliament. An MP, minister, PM or opposition leader who spent all his time on the road instead of being in the Commons would be in breach of the rules of the Commons, which requires good attendance, and would be opening himself to criticism from the press and political opponents about using his public salary to conduct a political campaign, instead of acting for his constituents. Another structural difference is that the nomination of the party leaders is not done in the same year as the general election. Rather, the choice of party leader is usually made at least a year, if not more, before the general. We don’t have a lengthy primary process to squeeze in before the general election. For instance, Ontario and Quebec both had provincial elections this past spring. In both cases, the leader of the defeated party announced his/her resignation as party leader on election night. The race is on right now in those parties to elect new leaders. That may take up to a year, which gives three years for the new Leader of the Opposition to get a seat in the Legislature and start showing why he/she should be Prime Minister in the next general election. ---
**Author:** ![Terr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/839c29/32.png) [@Terr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terr)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2014, 5:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/down-goes-eric-cantor/690516/363 "2014-06-17T05:35:36Z")
> [@Northern\_Piper](#): > > Now you’re shifting your argument, from non-existent legal restrictions on campaigning, to the structure of Parliament. I agree that it’s a structural difference, but it’s not tied to fixed elections. Many parliamentary systems have fixed election cycles, barring a government falling. What percentage of parliamentary cycles go to full term in Canada? Roughly. ---
**Author:** ![Northern\_Piper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/northern_piper/32/5304_2.png) [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2014, 12:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/down-goes-eric-cantor/690516/364 "2014-06-17T12:28:19Z")
Depends if it’s a minority or not. Minority governments tend to last about two years. Majority governments normally go about four years. They can, constitutionally, go for give years, but four is the normal term. ---
**Author:** ![Evil\_Captor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/f17d59/32.png) [@Evil\_Captor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evil_Captor)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2014, 1:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/down-goes-eric-cantor/690516/365 "2014-06-17T13:05:33Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > YOu left out the part where you don’t like individuals doing that either. True, I don’t like individuals buying Congressmen with the legalized bribery system we call “PACs” either. Thanks for pointing that out! (I’m SO ashamed!) ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2014, 1:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/down-goes-eric-cantor/690516/366 "2014-06-17T13:07:48Z")
So your issue isn’t who has 1st amendment rights. You just don’t think political speech is protected if you paid a lot of money for it(such as buying a printing press, something the founders obviously never envisioned.). ---
**Author:** ![Evil\_Captor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/f17d59/32.png) [@Evil\_Captor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evil_Captor)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2014, 1:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/down-goes-eric-cantor/690516/367 "2014-06-17T13:16:12Z")
> [@RTFirefly](#): > > And for you, it comes right back to how you feel about the Democratic Party. And you would put your (quite justifiable) grudge with the Democratic Party way ahead of the well-being of the people who would have the most to gain or lose, depending on how upcoming elections play out. You would sacrifice their lives to your grudge. > > You are not a progressive. You are a poseur. I believe the Democratic party will not change until progressives force it to change. That is going to be hard, painful lesson the Democrats are going to have to learn, through losing elections **since they choose not to learn any other way.** I wish there were an easier way. But the DLC is hooked on that money, the only thing that will dissuade them from following Wall Street anywhere they want to go is by threatening the very foundations of their wealth and power, a threat that will only seem credible if some Democrats DO lose elections. I’m really, really sorry the Democrats in Congress and the White House are such a bunch of greedy pigs and so very, very stupid. You’d think they’d have learned something from 2005, but apparently not. I’m reminded of a scene from the Simpsons. Police Chief Wiggum sits on the bed with his son Ralphie, who’s a bedwetter. Ralphie asks, “Daddy, these rubber pants are hot and uncomfortable. How long am I gonna have to wear them?” Chief Wiggum replies, “Until you learn, son. Until you learn.” So, how long are the Democrats going to keep losing election because they ignored their progressive base and the progressives bolted for other parties? Until they learn, Firefly. Until they learn. ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2014, 1:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/down-goes-eric-cantor/690516/368 "2014-06-17T13:26:59Z")
I’d say the first step is for progressives to actually persuade more of the public. Personally, I think the progressive base already is more represented in the Democratic Party than is justified by their numbers. The same could actually be said about the Tea Party these days as well. But I guess in both cases, the primary voters are more likely to be the die hards. So take a tip from the Tea Party that defeat these Dems in primaries. That’s what Markos Moulitsas used to do. It’s how Lieberman got booted from the party. ---
**Author:** ![Evil\_Captor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/f17d59/32.png) [@Evil\_Captor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evil_Captor)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2014, 1:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/down-goes-eric-cantor/690516/369 "2014-06-17T13:27:10Z")
> [@Voyager](#): > > Back in 1968 George Wallace said that there wasn’t a dime’s worth of difference between Republicans and Democrats. He was talking Nixon and Humphrey. If you are extreme enough, the parties look the same. > As for the horrible consequences, all those dead Americans and way more dead Iraqis might have agreed that there were real consequences when Nader siphoned off votes. Hell, maybe Gore wouldn’t have sat on his ass when warned of an attack. The parties don’t look the same to me. If they did, I’d probably be trying to get the Republicans to be more progressive, not the Democrats. On ECONOMIC ISSUES they are very much the same. Really. Because they are both beholden to big PAC contributors. > [@](#): > > Sure, a more universal system would be good. But how many millions of uninsured are now insured? How many more would be if Republicans didn’t obstruct Medicaid expansion? If you want progressive policies, start trying to beat Republicans, not Democrats. I’ve been a loyal Democratic voter for most of my adult life. On economic issues, it has done zilch good. Nada. Zip. Nothing. Got it? The Democrats in Congress make a lot of noises about raising the minimum wage and regulating the banks and getting Wall Street in line with Main Street … but Somehow they never manage to accomplish anything. I no longer believe their mouth noises. They have lost all cred with me. > [@](#): > > At least some banks are getting prosecuted. Do you think any would be if McCain had won? Not to mention compare our growth with that of Europe under an austerity policy less severe than the Republicans would have implemented. I think we’re doing a lot better - but not as good as we could have done with a bigger stimulus and less cutting of government jobs. Are you referring to HSBC which got a slap on the wrist for laundering money for Al-Qaeda? Or Well Fargo, that got a slap on the wrist for laundering drug money for Mexican drug cartels? How many bankers have gone to jail in the US for their part in the 2007 crash? Hmmm? > [@](#): > > The Tea Party is doing on the right what you want to do on the left. The Cantor race seems to have been interpreted as killing any chance of immigration reform, which is going to in the long run kill any chance of the Republican party winning nationally. The more rational ones know this, but the Tea Party doesn’t care. The Tea Party’s tactics have been quite successful. It’s time progressives emulated them. Our PLATFORM is very different from the Tea Party’s … though at the grassroots level we both hate Wall Street. Of course, the Tea Party’s corporate masters won’t let the Tea Party go after Wall Street. But progressives don’t have that problem, as we do not have astroturf origins. ---
**Author:** ![Evil\_Captor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/f17d59/32.png) [@Evil\_Captor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evil_Captor)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2014, 1:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/down-goes-eric-cantor/690516/370 "2014-06-17T13:29:33Z")
> [@Voyager](#): > > But my rant was about EC implying that Dems saying that Bush winning had real consequences. Bwuh? When did I say that? ---
**Author:** ![Evil\_Captor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/f17d59/32.png) [@Evil\_Captor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evil_Captor)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2014, 1:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/down-goes-eric-cantor/690516/371 "2014-06-17T13:32:11Z")
> [@Evil\_Captor](#): > > You’d think they’d have learned something from 2005, but apparently not. Should read “learned something from 2000” of course. Typo. ---
**Author:** ![Evil\_Captor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/f17d59/32.png) [@Evil\_Captor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evil_Captor)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2014, 1:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/down-goes-eric-cantor/690516/372 "2014-06-17T13:35:11Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > I’d say the first step is for progressives to actually persuade more of the public. Personally, I think the progressive base already is more represented in the Democratic Party than is justified by their numbers. The same could actually be said about the Tea Party these days as well. But I guess in both cases, the primary voters are more likely to be the die hards. Yes, progressives are working on persuading more of the public, mostly on the internet because mainstream media does not want to publicize progressive messages. Hell, even MSNBC, the closest thing MSM has to a lefty media outlet, tossed Cenk Uygar off the air despite strong ratings because he would not toe the line on not criticizing Obama. So it’s gonna be tough, especially without access to the big troughs of corporate money. But we’re working on it. ---
**Author:** ![Northern\_Piper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/northern_piper/32/5304_2.png) [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2014, 1:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/down-goes-eric-cantor/690516/373 "2014-06-17T13:36:48Z")
> [@Northern\_Piper](#): > > Depends if it’s a minority or not. Minority governments tend to last about two years. Majority governments normally go about four years. They can, constitutionally, go for give years, but four is the normal term. That should be: “They can, constitutionally, go for [del]give[/del] five years, but four is the normal term.” Darn fat fingers and iPhone! ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2014, 1:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/down-goes-eric-cantor/690516/374 "2014-06-17T13:38:42Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > It’s how Lieberman got booted from the party. Lieberman didn’t get booted from the party, he left. Just like Zell Miller. When you support the other party’s candidate for President, you’ve left the party. ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2014, 1:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/down-goes-eric-cantor/690516/375 "2014-06-17T13:46:40Z")
I’m referring to 2006, when he lost the Democratic primary and had to run as an independent. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2014, 1:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/down-goes-eric-cantor/690516/376 "2014-06-17T13:47:54Z")
He did \*not \*have to run at all. And, after he got re-elected, he might as well have joined the Republican caucus as well as do whatever else he did then. ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2014, 1:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/down-goes-eric-cantor/690516/377 "2014-06-17T13:51:02Z")
He gave you ACA when he had the power to stop it. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2014, 1:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/down-goes-eric-cantor/690516/378 "2014-06-17T13:59:14Z")
He stopped the expansion of Medicare eligibility, aka even a modest start at a robust public option. He did what his sponsors in the Hartford insurance industry wanted, greatly expanding their base of people paying in without costing them much, but not threatening them with a much-more-efficient government operation. In military questions, he’s perhaps the worst chickenhawk the Senate has ever seen. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2014, 2:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/down-goes-eric-cantor/690516/379 "2014-06-17T14:01:38Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > I’m referring to 2006, when he lost the Democratic primary and had to run as an independent. That’s not getting booted, any more than it is when Cantor lost his primary. He didn’t have to run as an independent – he could have supported the Democratic candidate. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2014, 2:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/down-goes-eric-cantor/690516/380 "2014-06-17T14:51:02Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > When you support the other party’s candidate for President, you’ve left the party. He left the party as soon as he decided to oppose its nominee for _Senate_. It all paid off for him in interview appearance fees from Fox, as their token “responsible Democrat”, even though he was neither. Whatever else he got paid by his insurance-business patrons for shaping ACA to their maximum benefit was just gravy. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/down-goes-eric-cantor/690516.md?page=18) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/down-goes-eric-cantor/690516.md?page=20)