# Downshifting vs braking on a stick-shift car - ze French perspective **URL:** \ **Category:** Cecil's Columns/Staff Reports\ **Created:** [February 20, 2015, 12:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/downshifting-vs-braking-on-a-stick-shift-car-ze-french-perspective/713185 "2015-02-20T12:01:55Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 12\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![malinza](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/a88e4f/32.png) [@malinza](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/malinza)\ **Post date:** [February 20, 2015, 12:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/downshifting-vs-braking-on-a-stick-shift-car-ze-french-perspective/713185/1 "2015-02-20T12:01:55Z")
Article here: [To slow a stick-shift car, should you brake or downshift?](http://www.straightdope.com/columns/read/1377/to-slow-a-stick-shift-car-should-you-brake-or-downshift) Here in France, where most cars are of the stick-shift variety (I’ve read automatic cars represent less than 15 % of the sales), the « downshifting and braking » combination is the way to stop, for safety reasons, driving downhill or not. My driving instructor was rather strict on this and told me that not downshifting would mean I’d fail the driving test, which is rather hard to pass (you would not guess from the way people drive in Paris). So it turns out that, with his “idiosyncrasies with the clutch”, Monsieur Adams is actually driving the French way. Fancy a snail? Claire ---
**Author:** ![epbrown01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7ba0ec/32.png) [@epbrown01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/epbrown01)\ **Post date:** [February 20, 2015, 1:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/downshifting-vs-braking-on-a-stick-shift-car-ze-french-perspective/713185/2 "2015-02-20T13:23:24Z")
> [@malinza](#): > > Article here: [To slow a stick-shift car, should you brake or downshift?](http://www.straightdope.com/columns/read/1377/to-slow-a-stick-shift-car-should-you-brake-or-downshift) > > Here in France, where most cars are of the stick-shift variety (I’ve read automatic cars represent less than 15 % of the sales), the « downshifting and braking » combination is the way to stop, for safety reasons, driving downhill or not. The reason it’s even debated here is most people in the US get official driving training in automatics and learn manual shifting from friends and relatives that don’t want their clutches destroyed. In settings with trained instructors and manual transmissions (motorcycle riding courses), you’re still taught to downshift. I do both. I don’t bother downshifting in my truck and always downshift on my bikes. I’ve never had to replace the clutch in a car (out of ten manuals), and I have had to on a couple of bikes (out of seven bikes). ---
**Author:** ![John\_W.Kennedy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_w.kennedy/32/1031_2.png) [@John\_W.Kennedy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_W.Kennedy)\ **Post date:** [February 21, 2015, 3:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/downshifting-vs-braking-on-a-stick-shift-car-ze-french-perspective/713185/3 "2015-02-21T03:42:10Z")
Me, I’m on my second DSG car, so I normally leave it to the computer, unless I’m going up or down a mountain. Having six speeds helps. ---
**Author:** ![Leaffan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/leaffan/32/299_2.png) [@Leaffan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leaffan)\ **Post date:** [February 21, 2015, 4:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/downshifting-vs-braking-on-a-stick-shift-car-ze-french-perspective/713185/4 "2015-02-21T04:08:13Z")
Apparently your clutch will wear out faster, but your brakes will wear out slower. Your call. I loved downshifting in my last manual transmission car. It was part of the fun of driving. ---
**Author:** ![Melbourne](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/b5e925/32.png) [@Melbourne](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Melbourne)\ **Post date:** [February 21, 2015, 7:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/downshifting-vs-braking-on-a-stick-shift-car-ze-french-perspective/713185/5 "2015-02-21T07:58:26Z")
> [@epbrown01](#): > > The reason it’s even debated here is most people in the US get official driving training in automatics and learn manual shifting from friends and relatives that don’t want their clutches destroyed. In settings with trained instructors and manual transmissions (motorcycle riding courses), you’re still taught to downshift. > > I do both. I don’t bother downshifting in my truck and always downshift on my bikes. I’ve never had to replace the clutch in a car (out of ten manuals), and I have had to on a couple of bikes (out of seven bikes). On my bikes I had to shift down through the gears. If I wanted to be in a starting gear when I started, I had to either sit at the green light shifting down with everyone waiting behind me, or start shifting down as I slowed down. Would I let the clutch out between downshifts? Well, it would depend on how fast I had to slow down, but if you are slowing down slowly, it’s good to use the rear wheel, for better control on slick spots. I don’t think it proves anything either way compared to driving a car. ---
**Author:** ![epbrown01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7ba0ec/32.png) [@epbrown01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/epbrown01)\ **Post date:** [February 21, 2015, 2:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/downshifting-vs-braking-on-a-stick-shift-car-ze-french-perspective/713185/6 "2015-02-21T14:08:25Z")
> [@Melbourne](#): > > On my bikes I had to shift down through the gears. > > If I wanted to be in a starting gear when I started, I had to either sit at the green light shifting down with everyone waiting behind me, or start shifting down as I slowed down. > > Would I let the clutch out between downshifts? Well, it would depend on how fast I had to slow down, but if you are slowing down slowly, it’s good to use the rear wheel, for better control on slick spots. > > I don’t think it proves anything either way compared to driving a car. I agree that, done the way you describe, thereusn’t much differnce. Holding the clutch in thru all the gears as you downshift is the same as braking a manual car in neutral. What I was talking about is **engaging** each gear on the way down - which is quite different. ---
**Author:** ![postpic200](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/54ee81/32.png) [@postpic200](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/postpic200)\ **Post date:** [February 21, 2015, 3:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/downshifting-vs-braking-on-a-stick-shift-car-ze-french-perspective/713185/7 "2015-02-21T15:00:51Z")
You are supposed to be in the gear that matches your speed ie you don’t want to be in first gear at 60. The way I was taught, was you let off the gas and when the engine slows down to a near idle you dis-engage the clutch, downshift but you don’t engage the clutch unless you need too (that is you’re now going to drive at a slower speed) if you’re going to a complete stop apply the brake as needed, downshifting without engaging the clutch until you come to a stop, at which time shift to neutral engage the clutch (you’re in neutral so you wont’ go forward) and wait until it time to move again, then dis-engage the clutch, shift into first engage clutch and off you go. To be honest I shift to first and keep the clutch dis-engaged while waiting at stop signs and stop lights. But considering I get well over 100,000 on my brakes and over 200,000 on my clutches and throwout bearing I think I safe doing what I do. And yes that’s city driving, but I also don’t race from stop sign to stop sign, nor do I feel the need to wait until the last second to brake. Which both my wife and son do, and it drives me nuts. I mean you can see the stop sign why race to it, you’re going to have to stop anyway. But I’ll stop there before the rant starts. ---
**Author:** ![jimigorilla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/edb3f5/32.png) [@jimigorilla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jimigorilla)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2015, 2:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/downshifting-vs-braking-on-a-stick-shift-car-ze-french-perspective/713185/8 "2015-02-25T14:49:06Z")
Over here in the Netherlands, where we drive mostly stick shift, I have learned to engage the clutch while braking and then setting it to the gear that corresponds to the the speed I have reached after braking. Say I am drving in 5th gear up to a corner that my car would have to take in 2nd gear. I break and clutch until I have reached the corner and the desired speed and then shift to 2nd gear. It doesn’t make much sense to shift through all the gears in the meantime while you’re not using them. ---
**Author:** ![Lumpy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lumpy/32/446_2.png) [@Lumpy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lumpy)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2015, 3:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/downshifting-vs-braking-on-a-stick-shift-car-ze-french-perspective/713185/9 "2015-02-25T15:59:02Z")
I find shift-braking helps when the roads are icy; it absorbs some of the car’s momentum and makes skidding less likely. ---
**Author:** ![rickety](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/ee59a6/32.png) [@rickety](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rickety)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2015, 11:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/downshifting-vs-braking-on-a-stick-shift-car-ze-french-perspective/713185/10 "2015-02-27T11:42:29Z")
The clutch wear argument seems a bit weak to me. If you are doing it right normal shifting puts very little wear on a clutch. I’ve driven cars over 200+K kms without having to replace the original. The thing that wears clutches is endless hill starts, and especially holding the car on a slope by slipping the clutch, rather than holding on the handbrake. This is something I suspect people who learn on automatic, or only occasionally drive a manual, are most ‘guilty’ of. The other argument in favour on manual gearboxes, aside from driving ‘pleasure’ was fuel efficiency and engine wear. That largely dates from time of crude 4 or even 3 speed auto-boxes. Modern ones are vastly better - my parents just bought a mid sized car with a 7-speed automatic which averages over 50mpg. ---
**Author:** ![John\_W.Kennedy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_w.kennedy/32/1031_2.png) [@John\_W.Kennedy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_W.Kennedy)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2015, 8:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/downshifting-vs-braking-on-a-stick-shift-car-ze-french-perspective/713185/11 "2015-02-27T20:19:42Z")
> [@rickety](#): > > Modern ones are vastly better - my parents just bought a mid sized car with a 7-speed automatic which averages over 50mpg. Classical automatic or DSG? ---
**Author:** ![dropzone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dropzone/32/7515_2.png) [@dropzone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dropzone)\ **Post date:** [February 28, 2015, 4:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/downshifting-vs-braking-on-a-stick-shift-car-ze-french-perspective/713185/12 "2015-02-28T04:15:35Z")
> [@Leaffan](#): > > Apparently your clutch will wear out faster, but your brakes will wear out slower. On my car a clutch costs MUCH more than rotors and, especially, pads, though I’m a lousy, self-taught, manual shifter.