# Downton Abbey, Christmas Special (U.S. premiere Feb. 19, 2012) - Spoilers embargoed **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [February 18, 2012, 8:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/downton-abbey-christmas-special-u-s-premiere-feb-19-2012-spoilers-embargoed/613265 "2012-02-18T20:06:17Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2012, 8:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/downton-abbey-christmas-special-u-s-premiere-feb-19-2012-spoilers-embargoed/613265/1 "2012-02-18T20:06:17Z")
This thread is for discussion of the “Christmas Day Special” episode, which was originally broadcast in Britain in December 2011. The U.S. premiere is scheduled for Feb. 19, 2012. This is a SPOILERS EMBARGOED thread. That means that spoilers may be discussed openly after the first complete broadcast of this episode in the United States. The embargo will EXPIRE on Sunday, Feb. 19, 2012, at 11 p.m. Eastern Time. After that time, no information revealed during the course of this episode is a spoiler and such information should not be spoiler-boxed. That also means that events in the episode should not be commented on in a “running commentary” style during the initial airing of the episode. Wait until the end of the episode to comment. For the purposes of this thread, a spoiler is any information that is revealed in the court of the episode that might reveal anything about the plot, dialogue, events, or characters involved in the episode. Spoilers include any events or dialogue revealed in advertisements or promotional materials, such as previews, news releases, or PROMOS. Spoilers are also information revealed in INTERVIEWS with individuals associated with the production of the show. They also include information about CASTING that might reveal that certain characters will or will not appear or that a new character will appear. Unverified RUMORS are spoilers. Spoiler boxes should be used only for spoilers, that is, information about the episode. Do not use spoiler boxes for punchlines to jokes, for speculation, for curse words, or any non-spoiler material. SPECULATION is not a spoiler. Feel free to speculate about what you think might happen, so long as it is not based on any actual knowledge about the episode. HISTORIC FACTS, such as the date of the armistice that ended the First World War, are not spoilers. ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2012, 8:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/downton-abbey-christmas-special-u-s-premiere-feb-19-2012-spoilers-embargoed/613265/2 "2012-02-18T20:15:24Z")
:smack: Of course I screwed up the spoiler dates in the OP! I’ve asked a mod to correct them, but until then, read all the dates as Feb. 19, even if they say Feb. 16 or Feb. 18. ---
**Author:** ![Toucanna](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/3bc359/32.png) [@Toucanna](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Toucanna)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2012, 8:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/downton-abbey-christmas-special-u-s-premiere-feb-19-2012-spoilers-embargoed/613265/3 "2012-02-18T20:21:39Z")
Thanks for your comprehensive detailing of this thread’s Spoiler Rules. I have a tiny clarification, though. The episode we will be discussing is the one scheduled to premiere on PBS in the USA. It may have already “premiered” in the USA on pay-services such as Netflix. I look forward to this thread’s developments. See you Sunday, 11 pm, EST! ---
**Author:** ![Savannah](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b3f665/32.png) [@Savannah](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Savannah)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2012, 8:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/downton-abbey-christmas-special-u-s-premiere-feb-19-2012-spoilers-embargoed/613265/4 "2012-02-18T20:28:13Z")
No spoilers, but we very much enjoyed watching it! Can’t wait to read everyone else’s thoughts on it. Things happened! ---
**Author:** ![Eve](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/9e8a1a/32.png) [@Eve](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eve)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2012, 1:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/downton-abbey-christmas-special-u-s-premiere-feb-19-2012-spoilers-embargoed/613265/5 "2012-02-19T01:37:25Z")
A Downton Abbey Christmas Special? Will the Osmonds be there, and Andy Williams? **Lady Violet:** “Carson, I hear someone at the door. Please do see who it is.” \*\*Carson: \*\*“It’s Charo, mu’m, and she has brought the dazzling Del Rubio Triplets with her.” **Charo:** “_Coochie-coochie!_” ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2012, 2:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/downton-abbey-christmas-special-u-s-premiere-feb-19-2012-spoilers-embargoed/613265/6 "2012-02-19T02:19:28Z")
Charo! I don’t know how many of us are aware of the differences in American and British connotation of the term “Christmas special.” In America, a Christmas special is a variety show—song, dance, comedy sketches, nostalgia—hosted by a second or third tier celebrity, like Andy Williams or Perry Como, which features “drop-in” appearances by other celebrities. Their heydays were in the 1960s and 1970s and are considered a bit old-fashioned. That’s why we associate them with '70s celebrities like Charo. In Britain, a Christmas special is an extra or bonus episode tacked on between seasons (series) of a regular television show. Often some major plot development or tying up of loose ends takes place during the Christmas special. For example, it was during the _Yes, Minister_, Christmas special that Jim Hacker became the prime minister. And it was during _The Office_ Christmas special that Tim and Dawn finally got together. While American shows often feature a Christmas-themed episode during the course of a regular season, it’s not really considered a “special” episode. ---
**Author:** ![Bridget\_Burke](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7cd45c/32.png) [@Bridget\_Burke](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bridget_Burke)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2012, 3:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/downton-abbey-christmas-special-u-s-premiere-feb-19-2012-spoilers-embargoed/613265/7 "2012-02-19T03:43:29Z")
From Caitlin Moran’s summary of the year’s TV (behind the _Times_ pay wall)–written just before Christmas… > [@](#): > > And sweet, stupid _Downton Abbey_, of course, remained in a class of its own. Knocking off the entire First World War in four episodes, _Downton_ continued its voyage into the early years of the 20th century in its relentlessly barmy manner: handsome Matthew Crawley’s pelvic dysfunction (“I think I felt a … tingle”); the illegitimate baby in the pantry; Bates’s dream of setting up the Bates Motel (really?). _Downton_ is currently so off its chanks that all bets are off for what will happen in the Christmas Day episode. The Muppets could guest star. The Death Star could guest star. In the most brilliant way,\* Downton Abbey\* just does not give a shit. It’s like a mad old duchess dancing on the edge of the ha-ha in a fur coat, laughing. ---
**Author:** ![Toucanna](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/3bc359/32.png) [@Toucanna](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Toucanna)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2012, 11:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/downton-abbey-christmas-special-u-s-premiere-feb-19-2012-spoilers-embargoed/613265/8 "2012-02-19T23:18:39Z")
Just under three hours to go! Eeeee! Will Matthew & Mary get together–at last? Will Bates have a date with the hangman? Will Branson stop haranguing Sybil about politics and class warfare long enough to say “I do”? Should we be doubting Thomas’ conversion? (See what I did there?) Did Mrs. Patmore ever make that wedding cake? Will Moseley _finally_ land that job as Lord Grantham’s valet? If he does, who will dress Matthew, now that he’s given his middle class upbringing the heave-ho and fully embraced the lifestyle of the rich and titled? Will this episode be set in Christmas 1920, or will it jump forward two, three or even four years? And why isn’t the Dowager Countess dead yet? ---
**Author:** ![Eve](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/9e8a1a/32.png) [@Eve](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eve)\ **Post date:** [February 20, 2012, 3:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/downton-abbey-christmas-special-u-s-premiere-feb-19-2012-spoilers-embargoed/613265/9 "2012-02-20T03:58:22Z")
“The Black Bottom?” Not in 1920, Lord Fellows. Really, didn’t they have \*any \*historians looking at these scripts? ---
**Author:** ![Toucanna](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/3bc359/32.png) [@Toucanna](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Toucanna)\ **Post date:** [February 20, 2012, 3:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/downton-abbey-christmas-special-u-s-premiere-feb-19-2012-spoilers-embargoed/613265/10 "2012-02-20T03:59:35Z")
_Will Matthew & Mary get together–at last?_ Yup! Will they run off to the USA? _Will Bates have a date with the hangman?_ Maaaaybe _Will Branson stop haranguing Sybil about politics and class warfare long enough to say “I do”?_ Yup, and long enough to put a bun in the oven. _Should we be doubting Thomas’ conversion?_ Oh, my, of course! _Did Mrs. Patmore ever make that wedding cake?_ Maybe it was Daisy. _Will Moseley finally land that job as Lord Grantham’s valet?_ Of course not! _Will this episode be set in Christmas 1920…?_ Nope–the action takes place from Christmas 1919 to New Year’s Day 1920. Which means all my date calculations in the other thread are off by a year. _And why isn’t the Dowager Countess dead yet?_ Ah, who knows what schemes Fellowes has in store for Violet? ---
**Author:** ![Toucanna](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/3bc359/32.png) [@Toucanna](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Toucanna)\ **Post date:** [February 20, 2012, 4:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/downton-abbey-christmas-special-u-s-premiere-feb-19-2012-spoilers-embargoed/613265/11 "2012-02-20T04:02:03Z")
> [@Eve](#): > > “The Black Bottom?” Not in 1920, Lord Fellows. Really, didn’t they have \*any \*historians looking at these scripts? To top that, the year had only just turned to 1920. Most of the action was set in the last week of December of 1919. ☹ ---
**Author:** ![Sampiro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/2acd7d/32.png) [@Sampiro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sampiro)\ **Post date:** [February 20, 2012, 5:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/downton-abbey-christmas-special-u-s-premiere-feb-19-2012-spoilers-embargoed/613265/12 "2012-02-20T05:23:40Z")
Still watching the episode online, but have to mention that I h-a-t-e it when writers quote a foreign language without translation. For anybody wondering, what Lady Violet says about the Mr. Hepworth she knew in the late 1860s translates as “But where are the snows of yesteryear?”, a line from a poem by Francois Villon. ---
**Author:** ![Sampiro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/2acd7d/32.png) [@Sampiro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sampiro)\ **Post date:** [February 20, 2012, 5:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/downton-abbey-christmas-special-u-s-premiere-feb-19-2012-spoilers-embargoed/613265/13 "2012-02-20T05:29:46Z")
> [@Eve](#): > > “The Black Bottom?” Not in 1920, Lord Fellows. Really, didn’t they have \*any \*historians looking at these scripts? You and your insecurities about your social class. ---
**Author:** ![Toucanna](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/3bc359/32.png) [@Toucanna](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Toucanna)\ **Post date:** [February 20, 2012, 6:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/downton-abbey-christmas-special-u-s-premiere-feb-19-2012-spoilers-embargoed/613265/14 "2012-02-20T06:11:48Z")
> [@Sampiro](#): > > You and your insecurities about your social class. [Branson]That’s just what someone like you and your people would say about those of us who work for our bread. Can’t you see how wrong and outdated the whole system is and how _none_ of it matters anymore?[/Branson] ---
**Author:** ![Toucanna](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/3bc359/32.png) [@Toucanna](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Toucanna)\ **Post date:** [February 20, 2012, 6:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/downton-abbey-christmas-special-u-s-premiere-feb-19-2012-spoilers-embargoed/613265/15 "2012-02-20T06:18:20Z")
[QUOTE=Sampiro] {snip} “But where are the snows of yesteryear?”, a line from a poem by François Villon. [/QUOTE] I recognized the line, but wondered why she quoted it. According to the Wikipedia entry on Villon, “During the television series _Downton Abbey_’s Christmas Special, the Dowager countess uses the line “Mais, où sont les neiges d’antan”, as to refer to a thief, or villon if you may, she met in the late '60s.” O-o-o-o-kay, makes sense to me, I guess. ---
**Author:** ![Sampiro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/2acd7d/32.png) [@Sampiro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sampiro)\ **Post date:** [February 20, 2012, 7:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/downton-abbey-christmas-special-u-s-premiere-feb-19-2012-spoilers-embargoed/613265/16 "2012-02-20T07:25:27Z")
> [@Toucanna](#): > > I recognized the line, but wondered why she quoted it. According to the Wikipedia entry on Villon, “During the television series _Downton Abbey_’s Christmas Special, the Dowager countess uses the line “Mais, où sont les neiges d’antan”, as to refer to a thief, or villon if you may, she met in the late '60s.” O-o-o-o-kay, makes sense to me, I guess. I think she meant it as she had a fling with him. She did tell his son that he used to chase her around. I’d assumed Grandma Shirley MacLaine was going to visit Downton but apparently the show will be following Mary to visit her. I wonder if they’ll film those scenes in the U.S., or, ideally, at a Newport mansion. (Hopefully not The Breakers or Marble House as those are too well known and associated with the Vanderbilts.) I thought Sir Richard was a jerk, of course, but Mary was wrong to string him along for- how long was it? Three years at least. I doubt that even in 1920 a years old scandal, one about a relatively minor member of the social register and one for which there’s no proof, would last that long in the press or even garner much press; the only really interesting thing is the man dying. Her worst bet would be if somebody made a really good joke about her to coincide with Kemal Ataturk’s rise (calling her ‘Female Shag-a-turk’ or some variant) but even then, it’ll pass. The Bates story would be the worse probably. I hope in the coming season Daisy decides to move in with her new Dad. And perhaps they move to Australia together. She adds nothing save an annoying stupid insipid whine to the show. I’d also like to see Thomas get a love interest (or perhaps follow him to town to see how gay men in the villages of the 1920s discreetly found their jollies). ---
**Author:** ![AK84](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/85e7bf/32.png) [@AK84](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AK84)\ **Post date:** [February 20, 2012, 9:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/downton-abbey-christmas-special-u-s-premiere-feb-19-2012-spoilers-embargoed/613265/17 "2012-02-20T09:21:33Z")
Apparently the [Court of Criminal Appeal](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Court_of_Criminal_Appeal#England_and_Wales) in 1920 did not have jurisdiction over Yorkshire Courts, which incidentally could try cases which had occured in London and also they could permit hearsay evidence. ---
**Author:** ![twickster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ec9cab/32.png) [@twickster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/twickster)\ **Post date:** [February 20, 2012, 2:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/downton-abbey-christmas-special-u-s-premiere-feb-19-2012-spoilers-embargoed/613265/18 "2012-02-20T14:22:52Z")
> [@Sampiro](#): > > I’d assumed Grandma Shirley MacLaine was going to visit Downton but apparently the show will be following Mary to visit her. I wonder if they’ll film those scenes in the U.S., or, ideally, at a Newport mansion. They did mention she has houses in NY and Newport. > [@Sampiro](#): > > I thought Sir Richard was a jerk, of course, but Mary was wrong to string him along for- how long was it? Three years at least. I doubt that even in 1920 a years old scandal, one about a relatively minor member of the social register and one for which there’s no proof, would last that long in the press or even garner much press; the only really interesting thing is the man dying. Except she’s not a virgin. I think that truly would have an effect on her marriagability, even in 1920, in her social class. ---
**Author:** ![Eve](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/9e8a1a/32.png) [@Eve](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eve)\ **Post date:** [February 20, 2012, 2:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/downton-abbey-christmas-special-u-s-premiere-feb-19-2012-spoilers-embargoed/613265/19 "2012-02-20T14:24:26Z")
> [@Sampiro](#): > > I’d assumed Grandma Shirley MacLaine was going to visit Downton but apparently the show will be following Mary to visit her. I wonder if they’ll film those scenes in the U.S., or, ideally, at a Newport mansion. Maybe Grannie Shirley lives in a Park Avenue apartment with her best pal, Vera Charles, and their secretary, Agnes Gooch! \*Think \*of all the musical numbers. ---
**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\ **Post date:** [February 20, 2012, 2:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/downton-abbey-christmas-special-u-s-premiere-feb-19-2012-spoilers-embargoed/613265/20 "2012-02-20T14:36:47Z")
> [@Sampiro](#): > > I’d also like to see Thomas get a love interest (or perhaps follow him to town to see how gay men in the villages of the 1920s discreetly found their jollies). IIRC, the early episodes of Season 1 established that Thomas had an aristocratic ex-lover whom he unsuccessfully attempted to blackmail, and also that he made a pass at the dishy Mr. Panuk under the mistaken assumption that the latter was interested in him. So I think it’s fairly clear that Thomas doesn’t put out unless he sees some potential advantage in it. My personal impression is that he’s situationally bisexual enough to shag anything, male or female, if it’s sufficiently worth his while from a career advancement standpoint. Handsome upper-class young men just happen to be what he personally prefers. For Thomas’ own happiness, of course, I’d love to see him genuinely enamored of a nice guy who becomes more important to him than his self-serving little plots. But I don’t think that would really be in character. Nor do I think it likely that Thomas would risk a casual encounter with someone of his own class that might end up being used against him. A pretty cold calculating git, our Thomas. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/downton-abbey-christmas-special-u-s-premiere-feb-19-2012-spoilers-embargoed/613265.md?page=2)