# Downton Abbey (open spoilers) **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [November 8, 2010, 10:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/downton-abbey-open-spoilers/559966 "2010-11-08T22:35:31Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 7
**Author:** ![Encinitas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/ee7513/32.png) [@Encinitas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Encinitas)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2011, 9:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/downton-abbey-open-spoilers/559966/121 "2011-01-25T21:43:33Z")
Regarding Bates’ freedom to marry…perhaps his war wound is so severe that it would prevent him from performing his husbandly duties in full? Thus making him unsuitable for marriage. ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2011, 9:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/downton-abbey-open-spoilers/559966/122 "2011-01-25T21:44:58Z")
> [@PunditLisa](#): > > And because I wasn’t paying that much attention, I thought he’d confessed to killing him – poisoning him perhaps. I can’t imagine what kind of poison would cause a heart attack in such a conveniently timed manner. > [@](#): > > After all, he had the motive, he’s evil, and it was rather convenient how Pamuk ended up dead shortly after threatening Thomas. I wouldn’t say he threatened him; I’d say he made a deal. If Pamuk had not died, then Thomas’s knowledge of the night’s events would be enough to keep Pamuk quiet. > [@ThelmaLou](#): > > Could someone who has dvr’d\* this, check out that scene please? Bates: I’m not a free man. Anna: Are you trying to tell me that you’re married? Bates: I have been married, yes, but that’s not all of it. The part after the “but” is mumbled, but I think that’s what he says. ---
**Author:** ![Lamia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/8e7dd6/32.png) [@Lamia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lamia)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2011, 11:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/downton-abbey-open-spoilers/559966/123 "2011-01-25T23:47:59Z")
> [@alphaboi867](#): > > I admit I have no direct experiance with hetero-sex, but weren’t they in the wrong position for her to remain “a technical vigin”? Mary was lying prone on the bed and he was in the missionary position and her legs were flat on the bed (not spear apart or wrapped around him) to which I think would make one point of entry rather difficult. I’m not certain I get your point here, but Mary could remain a “technical virgin” in any position that did not actually involve Pamuk’s penis entering her vagina. If her legs were together then it’s unlikely (although I suppose not impossible) that this had happened. But from what I recall they hadn’t done anything but kiss when the scene ended, so what specific acts were performed between that moment and Pamuk’s death are open to speculation. It could have been vaginal intercourse, frottage, oral sex, or anything else that an “exotic” and sexually experienced man might be familiar with. I wouldn’t normally assume that Lady Mary was still a “technical virgin” the next morning, except that I am pretty sure Pamuk did say something about how she’d still be a virgin for her husband. This would also explain why Mary doesn’t seem concerned about pregnancy, although she wouldn’t be the first woman to be in denial about the possibility of pregnancy either. ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2011, 11:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/downton-abbey-open-spoilers/559966/124 "2011-01-25T23:49:55Z")
I suspect that Pamuk didn’t mean that Mary would literally be a virgin. I suspect he meant, “no one will know, so you can pretend to still be a virgin.” ---
**Author:** ![Lamia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/8e7dd6/32.png) [@Lamia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lamia)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2011, 11:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/downton-abbey-open-spoilers/559966/125 "2011-01-25T23:57:09Z")
> [@acsenray](#): > > I suspect that Pamuk didn’t mean that Mary would literally be a virgin. I suspect he meant, “no one will know, so you can pretend to still be a virgin.” Yeah, I mentioned that in post #108. I’ve been hoping that someone with a DVR will check the actual dialogue, because like I said I didn’t catch all of it. ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2011, 12:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/downton-abbey-open-spoilers/559966/126 "2011-01-26T00:34:14Z")
The portion in boldface is unclear to me. I’m not sure about the exact words. > [@](#): > > Mary: You must be mad! > Pamuk: I am. I am in the grip of madness. > Mary: Please, leave at once, or I’ll … > Pamuk: Or you’ll what? > Mary: I’ll scream. > Pamuk: No, you won’t. > Mary: I’ll ring the bell, then. > Pamuk: And who’s on duty now? The hall boy? Will you really let him find a man in your bedroom? What a story! > Mary: Do you have any idea what you’re asking? I’d be ruined if they even knew we’d had this conversation, let alone if … > Pamuk: What? Don’t worry. You can still be a virgin for your husband. > Mary: Heavens, is this a proposal? > Pamuk: Ungh. Alas, no. I don’t think our … union … would please your family. > Mary: No, I’m afraid not. > Pamuk: Nor mine. But … a little imagination … you **wouldn’t be the first** > Mary: You and my parents have something in common. > Pamuk: Mm? > Mary: You believe I’m much more of a rebel than I am. Now, please, go. I’m not what you think I am. If it’s my mistake, if I’ve led you on, I’m sorry, but, I’m not. > Pamuk: You are just what I think you are. > Mary: No, I’ve never done anything. > Pamuk: Course not. Only one look at you would tell me that. Oh, my darling. > Mary: Won’t it hurt? Is it safe? > Pamuk: Trust me. ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2011, 1:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/downton-abbey-open-spoilers/559966/127 "2011-01-26T01:31:57Z")
> [@acsenray](#): > > It’s his money and his estate. He can use it how he wants, so long as he’s alive. His successors aren’t necessarily obliged to follow his lead, however. Well, then, what did most upper-rung aristos do back then in this situation? ---
**Author:** ![salinqmind](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/3ec8ea/32.png) [@salinqmind](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/salinqmind)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2011, 1:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/downton-abbey-open-spoilers/559966/128 "2011-01-26T01:48:49Z")
In all my viewing of this sort of program, and of the hundreds and hundreds of English novels I’ve read, servants like cooks and butlers who served for years and years were given a pension. Footmen, maids, and assorted helpers tended to come and go, but I suppose the longer they were employed, the bigger the parting gifts were. (On Upstairs, Downstairs, Rose begged the Bellamys, who were downsizing and moving, to take her with them. They said they could only offer her a tiny room, but she gratefully accepted.)…Female servants were generally fired if they got knocked up, which is why I worry about low-on-the-totem-pole Daisy. Cook seems to be keeping an eye on her, but really, Daisy is lamb to the slaughter material. ---
**Author:** ![MLS](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/919ad9/32.png) [@MLS](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MLS)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2011, 5:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/downton-abbey-open-spoilers/559966/129 "2011-01-26T17:42:20Z")
When Mrs. Hughes is talking to the farmer, he asks what will happen when she’s too old to work, and she said something to the effect that she believed she will be taken care of. ---
**Author:** ![alphaboi867](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alphaboi867/32/3898_2.png) [@alphaboi867](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/alphaboi867)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2011, 5:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/downton-abbey-open-spoilers/559966/130 "2011-01-26T17:47:30Z")
> [@salinqmind](#): > > …(On Upstairs, Downstairs, Rose begged the Bellamys, who were downsizing and moving, to take her with them. They said they could only offer her a tiny room, but she gratefully accepted.)… Then Lord Bellamy died a few years later and all Rose got to show for 40 yrs of service to the family was a silver teapot. Granted the Bellamys were practically bankrupt and Lady Bellamy would’ve had to focus what resources she had on her own children. ---
**Author:** ![salinqmind](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/3ec8ea/32.png) [@salinqmind](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/salinqmind)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2011, 5:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/downton-abbey-open-spoilers/559966/131 "2011-01-27T17:51:52Z")
Rose wasn’t held captive, she could have had a different life if she had married that soldier she was briefly engaged to. But she was too enmeshed with the family, besides being a born old maid. ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2011, 11:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/downton-abbey-open-spoilers/559966/132 "2011-01-27T23:07:36Z")
The original U.K. run had seven episodes, but when I purchased the full season from Itunes, I got only six episodes, all marked as “(original UK version).” Is Itunes holding back the seventh episode for some reason? ---
**Author:** ![PunditLisa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/4af34b/32.png) [@PunditLisa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PunditLisa)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2011, 11:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/downton-abbey-open-spoilers/559966/133 "2011-01-27T23:38:24Z")
> [@acsenray](#): > > The original U.K. run had seven episodes, but when I purchased the full season from Itunes, I got only six episodes, all marked as “(original UK version).” Is Itunes holding back the seventh episode for some reason? It should be 368 minutes, in total. If the totals don’t add up, it may be that the last episode won’t be released for download until after the US airing. ---
**Author:** ![Lamia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/8e7dd6/32.png) [@Lamia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lamia)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2011, 12:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/downton-abbey-open-spoilers/559966/134 "2011-01-28T00:34:02Z")
> [@salinqmind](#): > > In all my viewing of this sort of program, and of the hundreds and hundreds of English novels I’ve read, servants like cooks and butlers who served for years and years were given a pension. In novels it seems like when some rich old geezer dies then they usually leave some money to their long-term servants as well. In murder mysteries this is often mentioned in passing when the question of who would benefit from the death comes up. ---
**Author:** ![alphaboi867](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alphaboi867/32/3898_2.png) [@alphaboi867](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/alphaboi867)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2011, 12:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/downton-abbey-open-spoilers/559966/135 "2011-01-28T00:58:43Z")
> [@salinqmind](#): > > Rose wasn’t held captive, she could have had a different life if she had married that soldier she was briefly engaged to. But she was too enmeshed with the family, besides being a born old maid. The soldier who _died_ in the War and left her all his money (which she lost in the Stock Market Crash)? She never knew any other life than domestic service (to essentially the same family). She was born on the Talbot-Carey estate, her mother (who died when she was little) was a maid until she married one of the outdoor staff. She herself would’ve been put in service as soon as she finished school (at _12_). When Lady Marjorie (who was the one to tell her mother was dead) married & formed her own household she brought her along. Of course she was emeshed with the family. Rose was far from atypical. At this time remaining in domestic service was a valid career path (& pretty secure compared to the alternatives), especially for a woman. Rose stated repeatedly that her ambition was to be a Lady’s Maid; one of the senior servants who could reasonable expect a pension & tied cottage. ---
**Author:** ![salinqmind](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/3ec8ea/32.png) [@salinqmind](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/salinqmind)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2011, 3:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/downton-abbey-open-spoilers/559966/136 "2011-01-28T03:20:21Z")
I’m not arguing with anything you say. I only wanted to point out Rose did have that one small chance at a different life. But she did not, she could not, leave the Bellamys, and so ended up as she did. ---
**Author:** ![ThelmaLou](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thelmalou/32/390_2.png) [@ThelmaLou](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ThelmaLou)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2011, 3:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/downton-abbey-open-spoilers/559966/137 "2011-01-28T03:57:14Z")
> [@salinqmind](#): > > I’m not arguing with anything you say. I only wanted to point out Rose did have that one small chance at a different life. But she did not, she could not, leave the Bellamys, and so ended up as she did. Not unlike the housekeeper in Downton Abbey. To my way of thinking, she just threw away her one chance to be loved and valued as a woman, an individual, by an equal. ---
**Author:** ![Bridget\_Burke](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7cd45c/32.png) [@Bridget\_Burke](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bridget_Burke)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2011, 1:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/downton-abbey-open-spoilers/559966/138 "2011-01-28T13:19:10Z")
But maybe the housekeeper really didn’t want to be a farmer’s wife–as she said. He seemed prosperous, but she would have lots more work to do on a farm. And he would probably be her only company, aside from any farmhands. At Downton Abbey, most of the staff respect & value her. And the hijinks of The Quality are a never-ending source of amusement. ---
**Author:** ![MarcusF](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/67e7ee/32.png) [@MarcusF](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MarcusF)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2011, 1:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/downton-abbey-open-spoilers/559966/139 "2011-01-28T13:45:10Z")
A good point. The life of an Edwardian farmer’s wife was pretty back-breaking. At Downton she bossed the staff, as a wife she would have to a lot of the work herself. The BBC have been doing series called [The Edwardian Farm](http://www.edwardianfarm.co.uk/index.html)with two archeologists and a historian running a farm for a year as it would have been run before WW1. It is not up on the episode guide yet but in one episode they followed Ruth (the domestic historian running the house) through one day from getting up to going to bed. Wow - it made me stop feeling hard worked for at least 20 minutes 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2011, 3:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/downton-abbey-open-spoilers/559966/140 "2011-01-28T15:53:12Z")
This is also well worth a look: [http://www.channel4.com/programmes/the-edwardian-country-house](http://www.channel4.com/programmes/the-edwardian-country-house) [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/downton-abbey-open-spoilers/559966.md?page=6) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/downton-abbey-open-spoilers/559966.md?page=8)