He left his valet. A butler runs a household. You wouldn’t take one when visiting someone else’s house.
My impression was that he had no valet of his own, and just said that to cover up.
Yeah, I agree that’s more likely. The servants seemed skeptical of the “doesn’t speak English” excuse.
Correct, you’d take a footman if you didn’t have a dedicated valet (at home your butler would valet). It wasn’t that unusual for a gentlemen to arrive without a valet (especially if he’d come from abroad). But for a lady to travel without a maid?! :eek: That would raise alot more eyebrows and be the subject of much gossip above and below stairs.
Did they? The only real conversation about it was between the Earl and his valet, or am I wrong?
I seem to remember Thomas being shocked on discovering the dead Pamuk, i.e. that kind of pale-faced shock when unexpectedly discovering someone dead. In fact I thought he was about to drop the tray he carried. If he had poisoned Pamuk I’d expect him to look somewhat self-satisfied, and not so stunned.
I thought Pamuk indeed had a valet, but left him home on purpose, because that allowed him more options, and more potential access to someone he could blackmail, like Thomas. I also thought some subtle skepticism was hinted in the “doesn’t speak English” explanation, but thought I got that idea of skepticism from Pamuk himself, like he was being portrayed as deceptive, scheming, insincere, a liar. Having a valet, but leaving him home so he could have more options also plays more into his scheming character.
And Mary also encouraged Pamuk from her end of it. Yes, he targeted her, but she also clearly let him know that she welcomed his attention. Remember, she even followed him on horseback when he broke off from the others.
Beyond that, there’s nothing in the show itself that suggests he might have killed Pamuk. It’s pure speculation that he might have. So far, the show hasn’t hidden its cards in such a cheap way.
Frankly, I don’t think he was “scheming” at all. It’s not like what he did required any extensive scheming of any kind. And even without Thomas’s help, it’s not unlikely that he would have been able to find Mary anyway.
Just like with Thomas, I’d be surprised by the suggestion that Pamuk was “predatory.” The whole thing was entirely consensual. Mary as much says so to her mother. It was a run-of-the-mill seduction, which, if I might mix metaphors, requires two two tango.
I kinda got lost as to who is being discussed, but I’d say that Thomas was a schemer, and Pamuk an opportunist. Both are cads and devoid of conscience.
Yeah, I didn’t see anything to indicate Thomas poisoned Pamuk, so we do agree on that one. OTOH I’d definitely put Pamuk in the “schemng predator” category. Even though Mary was quite taken with him and encouraged him, I still did see him as predatory. I also think he preyed on Thomas, even though Thomas encouraged him as well. It happens a lot that a predator is also seductively charming, readily exploiting the fact that others are overwhelmingly attracted to him/her. And consent doesn’t make him less of a predator IMO. Pamuk certainly didn’t strike me as innocent, especially by the way he set a trap for Thomas. And anyone who sets a trap like that is a predator IMO. So I guess on that point you and I just see it differently again.
But “cads […] devoid of conscience” also covers it pretty well, yup.
Thomas is significantly more than a cad. He has deliberately set out to hurt people.
I see no reason for Pamuk to feel any pangs of conscience for what he did while visiting Downton.
Well, Pamuk had no time to develop pangs of conscience after what he did!
I just finished watching this on Netflix and I’m another convert.
So how do you think they’ll work Thomas into the next series (assuming the actor is returning, which as the character is responsible for half the drama is I think a safe assumption)? Any chance Lord Grantham, who I’d presume to be about 50, could be recalled to active service during the war?
I LOVE Maggie Smith in this. Favorite lines include “What on earth is a week-end?” and, when told by Mrs. Crawley that she takes something Violet said as a compliment, “I must not have said it properly”. She’s great as a rich bitch.
One thing I liked on the show is that other than Thomas there’s nobody completely evil or completely good:
-Mrs. Crawley is kind but does overestimate her abilities (misdiagnosing Moseley’s allergic rash [to Lady Violet’s delight])
-Matthew’s desire to show he’s above the class system he’s actually more inconsiderate of the servants than the great family
-Mary has her moments of great cruelty but also some kindness
-Mrs. O’Brien caused the miscarriage but was clearly not amoral- she was torn up about it later, especially upon realizing her job wasn’t in danger (not that this excuses her of course)
But really good character development all around.
When was the end of the era of the great houses? I wonder if there’s any way this series could go to the era when the staffs had to be cut and the money just wasn’t there to keep up a 200 room place for the majority of the aristocracy. (Of course it had already reached many which is why so many wed heiresses like Lord Grantham.)
Crikey! I missed most of the series – Sunday nights are football – but today when I went to my Amazon page, I see that Amazon is offering free movies and TV series to Prime members, and Downton Abbey is one of them!
I doubt he’d be recalled. As an experienced officer (from the Boer War), he was not looking forward to a great adventure–as so many did when the war began. But he might feel it his duty to volunteer; we know he’s serious about that duty stuff.
I’ve heard the next series will begin in 1916; the year conscription started. Except in Ireland, where they announced it in 1918, fanning the smoldering coals left from the Easter Rising–another 1916 event.
Of course we’ll see Thomas. Boo, hiss! He’s thinking he got himself an easy gig, but I wonder whether they’d let an able bodied young man like him spend the war in Blighty. Might the Abbey become a hospital or recuperation center? Might The Two Silly Daughters realize there are some serious problems in the world–as Eligible Men become an endangered species?
Another possibility I’ve heard mentioned: We meet Mrs Bates. The one who stole the regimental silver.
Has anybody bought or borrowed the DVDs? I’ve watched the whole series on Netflix but was wondering if the DVD extras made it worth keeping the discs on my queue.
In case anybody’s not aware, the PBS site for the showis great and links to that for the reality show Edwardian Country Home/Manor House which goes into detail on what each servantwould have done during an average day. For instance, poor William (Second Footman) would have had to begin each day serving the other male servants and emptying their slop jars.
I wonder what kind of pay people in service received relative to others who worked for wages at the time. Even the footmen seem to have a degree of prestige in the village, plus their food and lodging was taken care of so barring a gambling or booze habit they should have been able to bank some, but I’m curious what wages were like and how much more Carson would have earned than Bates or Mrs. Kathmore.
I would guess that butler would be a relatively well paid profession by the time you figure in room/board/incidentals and tips (which in Gosford Park most of the departing guests gave the butler a gratuity) but footmen probably could have a night out at the pub upon occasion but that’s about it for disposable income. I also wonder if many sent money home to their families.
It seems it would be next to impossible for a servant to marry. When they did and remained in service I wonder if they slept off property or slept on property when on duty and then off when they had down time.
Season 1 is currently being re-broadcast in my area (St. Louis, Missouri), and weirdly I never get tired of re-watching it. But this time they are also showing little teasers of Season 2 that will be broadcast here next month (January 2012). Really there is so much drama in the teasers, and so much interesting story-telling. It is very gripping, with teary departures as the war pulls the men away from home. Fleeting scenes show both Matthew Crawley and Lord Grantham in uniform, and other quick snippets of riveting war scenes. I’m already sold. And Julian Fellowes is obviously very talented, whew.
And such a great idea to re-broadcast Season 1 just prior to Season 2, so I can refresh my memory, and remember exactly where we left off with the 1st season.
Definitely one of my favorite showings on Masterpiece. Love Matthew Crawley, Bates and Mary. Can’t wait to see Thomas (hopefully) get his comeuppance…PLEASE!
I saw a couple of episodes of the second series when I was in the UK in October. It should be out in the States this spring.
I saw the entire 2nd series thank’s to methods best left unsaid. It’s really good, although their are alot of cliches and they didn’t do as much with Lady’s Sybil’s subplots as I’d hoped they would. I can’t wait to see the Christmas Special. The 2nd series left plenty of material to cover in the upcoming 3rd series (set in the 2910s!).