# Downton Abbey S3 - spoiler-free until broadcast in the U.S. **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [January 2, 2013, 1:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/downton-abbey-s3-spoiler-free-until-broadcast-in-the-u-s/645791 "2013-01-02T01:45:23Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 15
**Author:** ![Bridget\_Burke](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7cd45c/32.png) [@Bridget\_Burke](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bridget_Burke)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2013, 12:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/downton-abbey-s3-spoiler-free-until-broadcast-in-the-u-s/645791/281 "2013-01-19T12:39:47Z")
> [@](#): > > Well, we know Robert is the 7th Earl of Grantham and according to the press packet it’s subsidiary title is “Viscount Downton”. That would imply that either they already owned Downton when the title was created, or they are granted the title & lands at the same time. That the main house is called Downton Abbey implies that it either predates the Reformation (& was thus an acutally) or at least thats what the Crawley’s wanted to imply. Oh, and the Dower House was designed by Christopher Wren for the 3rd Earl’s sister, which makes this Earldom of Grantham older than the real one. Just as Highclere Castle is the most recent large house built where an Archbishop’s palace once stood, it’s evident that an abbey once stood where Downton Abbey does. It’s not the abbey itself–because abbeys don’t (or didn’t) look like that; they had lots of small cells, libraries, workshops & a church. Most abbeys in the British Isles were destroyed after the Reformation. Churches might be saved & used by the new religion. Some abbeys were totally knocked down so the stone could be reused; others were allowed to remain as picturesque ruins. Later, “follies” in the shape of fake ruins were sometimes added to estates because they made the vistas more romantic. Downton Abbey looks like what Highclere Castle is; a giant pile built in the 19th century in a hybrid Renaissance/Gothic/Victorian style. The Crawleys are still figuring out how to deal with the expensive tastes of earlier Crawleys. Let’s hope Matthew has some ideas… (Alas, my research hasn’t given me enough reverence to ensure that I always use the correct title for Mr Kitchener-Fellowes.) ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2013, 6:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/downton-abbey-s3-spoiler-free-until-broadcast-in-the-u-s/645791/282 "2013-01-19T18:00:23Z")
> [@brownMouse](#): > > LavenderBlue, I think society began to change at that time in history exactly because of the points you made. People started asking the same questions and making the same observations that you have. The series shows us how far we’ve come. (without getting depressed at how far we have yet to go … ) Bah. Sure they inherited a title, but here in America we can inherit massive wealth, and the Right fights Estate taxes tooth & nail, calling them “Death taxes” and spreading lies about them. ---
**Author:** ![Oslo\_Ostragoth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/a9a28c/32.png) [@Oslo\_Ostragoth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Oslo_Ostragoth)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2013, 7:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/downton-abbey-s3-spoiler-free-until-broadcast-in-the-u-s/645791/283 "2013-01-19T19:02:36Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > Bah. Sure they inherited a title, but here in America we can inherit massive wealth, and the Right fights Estate taxes tooth & nail, calling them “Death taxes” and spreading lies about them. So the government and its undereducated supporters should benefit from my life’s work, and not my children? I’m not sure what you mean with this, but if you have more to say, perhaps you should start a GD thread. ---
**Author:** ![PandaBear77](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/edb3f5/32.png) [@PandaBear77](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PandaBear77)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2013, 11:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/downton-abbey-s3-spoiler-free-until-broadcast-in-the-u-s/645791/284 "2013-01-19T23:17:38Z")
I just now started watching this show, I’m on S1E2, love it! ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2013, 11:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/downton-abbey-s3-spoiler-free-until-broadcast-in-the-u-s/645791/285 "2013-01-19T23:59:01Z")
> [@PandaBear77](#): > > I just now started watching this show, I’m on S1E2, love it! Good for you! Welcome aboard. ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2013, 12:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/downton-abbey-s3-spoiler-free-until-broadcast-in-the-u-s/645791/286 "2013-01-20T00:34:43Z")
If DA were on Facebook: [http://www.happyplace.com/20538/downton-abbey-facebook-recap-season-3-episode-2](http://www.happyplace.com/20538/downton-abbey-facebook-recap-season-3-episode-2) ---
**Author:** ![PandaBear77](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/edb3f5/32.png) [@PandaBear77](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PandaBear77)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2013, 3:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/downton-abbey-s3-spoiler-free-until-broadcast-in-the-u-s/645791/287 "2013-01-20T03:57:30Z")
I really really hate Mrs. O’Brien. Thomas is a dick, too. Tell me they get their asses kicked eventually. ---
**Author:** ![Bridget\_Burke](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7cd45c/32.png) [@Bridget\_Burke](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bridget_Burke)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2013, 5:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/downton-abbey-s3-spoiler-free-until-broadcast-in-the-u-s/645791/288 "2013-01-20T05:13:31Z")
> [@LavenderBlue](#): > > …Same thing with with poor sweet Daisy. You know if she loses her job it’s probably to horrors of the workhouse for her although William’s war pension might provide her with a small safety net. How is that fair? Why should Lady Mary live in enormous unearned comfort while far harder working people like Daisy and Anna know dismissal means catastrophe for them? > > They are sympathetic. The Crawleys aren’t. > > I truly enjoy the show but I swear Julian Fellowes is really bringing out my inner socialist. After the war, there was actually a shortage of women going into service. They had done many “men’s” jobs–their willingness to step outside traditional roles was one reason the ones over 30 got the vote in 1918. (One reason for the age limitation: due to the number of men killed, female voters would have outnumbered the males if they _all_ got the vote. They did around 1928.) Most of the male jobs were reclaimed by returning soldiers, but the women who continued to work were less willing to settle for servants’ lives. Labor saving devices became more popular–not to put servants out of work but because there were fewer servants. Downton had plumbing–and electricity in the rich folks’ areas. Some truly ancient places only got plumbing because there were fewer girls willing to earn a living emptying the chamber pots of their betters. A new tenant of Downton would need the same army of servants–more than the ones featured in the cast. The “major” ones might come with the family (just as the Crawleys would take their pets with them) but most of the staff would be hired locally. Someone like Daisy, who has cook’s training, could have looked for work in a hotel–if she had the gumption. There were more options than the workhouse & the street (especially for women _without_ children to support); most of the servants could have handled change better than the Crawleys. I don’t mind stories about rich folks. I just want them to do something more interesting than sit about moaning because their lives might become slightly less luxurious. _Downtown_ and the upcoming _Parade’s End_ have inspired a bunch of reading covering the period; there was lots more interesting stuff going on than Lord Fellowes has shared with us… ---
**Author:** ![Yookeroo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/yookeroo/32/323_2.png) [@Yookeroo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Yookeroo)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2013, 9:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/downton-abbey-s3-spoiler-free-until-broadcast-in-the-u-s/645791/289 "2013-01-20T09:03:23Z")
> [@Oslo\_Ostragoth](#): > > So the government and its undereducated supporters should benefit from my life’s work, and not my children? Yes. ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2013, 7:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/downton-abbey-s3-spoiler-free-until-broadcast-in-the-u-s/645791/290 "2013-01-20T19:35:51Z")
> [@Oslo\_Ostragoth](#): > > … if you have more to say, perhaps you should start a GD thread. If anyone wishes to have any more discussion along these lines, yes, please do. ---
**Author:** ![Ellen\_Cherry](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ellen_cherry/32/3600_2.png) [@Ellen\_Cherry](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ellen_Cherry)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2013, 1:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/downton-abbey-s3-spoiler-free-until-broadcast-in-the-u-s/645791/291 "2013-01-21T01:45:53Z")
Next ep begins in 15 minutes EST! ---
**Author:** ![LavenderBlue](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/e95f7d/32.png) [@LavenderBlue](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LavenderBlue)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2013, 3:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/downton-abbey-s3-spoiler-free-until-broadcast-in-the-u-s/645791/292 "2013-01-21T03:29:41Z")
> [@alphaboi867](#): > > Do you not under stand that the servants being in fear of losing their jobs & Lady Mary being afraid of losing the house are directly connected? They have jobs _because_ the Crawleys live in a big fancy house and don’t work. If Downton Abbey goes they loose their jobs. It’s 1920, not 2013. By the standards of the time the Crawleys are _extremely_ generous and benevolent employers. There isn’t much of a safety net; the Welfare State is 28 yrs away. It’s like the housewife on **The 1900 House** who insisted on “liberating” her maid because she felt so wrong oppresing her; despite it being pointed out that in the real Victorian Age a women who couldn’t even find work as a domestic would end up a prostitute (like Ethel). I understand that perfectly. It’s why their society utterly sucks and deserved to disappear. Mrs. Patmore should not have to depend on the Crawley’s benevolence. She should have unemployment insurance now and social security in her old age. I’m sick of Fellowes presenting these people as some sort of glorious saints because they don’t treat their employees like complete dirt. Watching Ethel tonight was incredibly painful. She literally had to give up her child because the child’s grandparents raised a piece of garbage for a son. She has no safety nets while the grandparents judge her for it and then take away her child. ---
**Author:** ![Ellen\_Cherry](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ellen_cherry/32/3600_2.png) [@Ellen\_Cherry](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ellen_Cherry)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2013, 4:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/downton-abbey-s3-spoiler-free-until-broadcast-in-the-u-s/645791/293 "2013-01-21T04:01:56Z")
Lord Grantham really should have gotten that MBA. Or taken a bookkeeping course. ---
**Author:** ![Lamia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/8e7dd6/32.png) [@Lamia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lamia)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2013, 4:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/downton-abbey-s3-spoiler-free-until-broadcast-in-the-u-s/645791/294 "2013-01-21T04:14:11Z")
> [@Ellen\_Cherry](#): > > Lord Grantham really should have gotten that MBA. Or taken a bookkeeping course. I’m wondering if Lord Grantham is really bad at business or if someone is on the take. Although if it’s the latter I’m not sure who it could be, unless it’s a new character. I mean, Thomas would probably be bleeding them dry if he could, but he’s presumably never had any opportunity to interfere with collection of rent or how the property is being used. What I’m kind of afraid will happen is that it will turn out that Lord Grantham is letting a bunch of widows, orphans, and kindly old toymakers remain in their cottages rent-free and that Matthew will be the bad guy for questioning this. ---
**Author:** ![Ellen\_Cherry](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ellen_cherry/32/3600_2.png) [@Ellen\_Cherry](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ellen_Cherry)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2013, 4:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/downton-abbey-s3-spoiler-free-until-broadcast-in-the-u-s/645791/295 "2013-01-21T04:23:14Z")
> [@Ellen\_Cherry](#): > > Maybe she’s changed her mind now and wants Mrs. Crawley to dig them up and take the boy off her hands. But it’s too hard for her to do, even though she’s in dire straits, which is why she keeps approaching Mrs. Crawley and then dashing away at the last second. Called it! Poor Ethel! That nasty man, insinuating that she must enjoy prostitution. Name one other option available to her! Who else thinks Violet got in some great, rather open-minded digs in tonight? What did she say about families rarely being what they seem? ---
**Author:** ![LavenderBlue](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/e95f7d/32.png) [@LavenderBlue](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LavenderBlue)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2013, 4:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/downton-abbey-s3-spoiler-free-until-broadcast-in-the-u-s/645791/296 "2013-01-21T04:28:02Z")
> [@Lamia](#): > > I’m wondering if Lord Grantham is really bad at business or if someone is on the take. Although if it’s the latter I’m not sure who it could be, unless it’s a new character. I mean, Thomas would probably be bleeding them dry if he could, but he’s presumably never had any opportunity to interfere with collection of rent or how the property is being used. > > What I’m kind of afraid will happen is that it will turn out that Lord Grantham is letting a bunch of widows, orphans, and kindly old toymakers remain in their cottages rent-free and that Matthew will be the bad guy for questioning this. I think Lord G is simply incompetent. He has no training in business. He’s probably going to be upset when Matthew wants to introduce modern farming methods and even think about making the estate into guest house or some such. They haven’t even broached the issue of estate taxes that will fall on Matthew once Lord G dies. I wish Fellowes had not turned Branson into a cad. His desertion of his pregnant wife was vile. Matthew is probably more worried right now about Lady Mary not being pregnant herself yet than anything else. My gaydar is in full swing with the new footman. That’s got to be what Fellowes is hinting at. ---
**Author:** ![LavenderBlue](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/e95f7d/32.png) [@LavenderBlue](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LavenderBlue)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2013, 4:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/downton-abbey-s3-spoiler-free-until-broadcast-in-the-u-s/645791/297 "2013-01-21T04:34:00Z")
> [@Ellen\_Cherry](#): > > Called it! Poor Ethel! That nasty man, insinuating that she must enjoy prostitution. Name one other option available to her! > > Who else thinks Violet got in some great, rather open-minded digs in tonight? What did she say about families rarely being what they seem? He was an absolute brute to her. I wonder how they’re going to introduce Charlie to everyone else? Some made up story about the mother dying in childbirth? If he knew about what she was up to, why didn’t he attempt to take his grandson away earlier? Or at least help her out financially in some way? Violet was in fine form tonight. I think she’ll wind up supporting Edith in whatever she does. Which I hope includes lots of visits to London to engage in all kinds of new activities with her peers. If I were her I’d run off to my grandmother’s house in NYC and find a nice New Yorker to marry. Right now she’s pitied by the servants and held in clear contempt by much of her immediate family. ---
**Author:** ![Lamia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/8e7dd6/32.png) [@Lamia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lamia)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2013, 4:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/downton-abbey-s3-spoiler-free-until-broadcast-in-the-u-s/645791/298 "2013-01-21T04:54:50Z")
> [@LavenderBlue](#): > > My gaydar is in full swing with the new footman. That’s got to be what Fellowes is hinting at. Well, Thomas certainly seems to be hoping so. The preview for next week suggests (spoilering because I know some people like to avoid even the previews):that Jimmy/James doesn’t welcome Thomas’s interest, though. Then again, I suppose even if he’s gay he’d likely still think Thomas was a creep.I’m wondering if Daisy will try to make a play for the handsome Jimmy/James to make Alfred jealous. ---
**Author:** ![Bridget\_Burke](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7cd45c/32.png) [@Bridget\_Burke](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bridget_Burke)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2013, 6:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/downton-abbey-s3-spoiler-free-until-broadcast-in-the-u-s/645791/299 "2013-01-21T06:02:16Z")
> [@LavenderBlue](#): > > He was an absolute brute to her. I wonder how they’re going to introduce Charlie to everyone else? Some made up story about the mother dying in childbirth? If he knew about what she was up to, why didn’t he attempt to take his grandson away earlier? Or at least help her out financially in some way?.. The original plan was to pass the kid off as the result of a tragic wartime marriage–alas, the son died in battle and his well-bred wife died of the influenza. But Ethel didn’t give the baby up promptly enough. The grandparents will have a harder time making up a story–it’s been a couple of years–but I’m sure they will. If they had tried to take him away, there would have been publicity. Ladies attended divorce court for fun–I’m betting the custody case would have been full of tidbits they could discuss over tea. Saving Fallen Women was a favorite activity for Victorian do-gooders. Those who meant to do no good generally thought that prostitutes chose the life because they enjoyed sex–and good women, of course, did not! Victoria has been gone for 20 years–the Crawley women actually seem to enjoy their married lives. (Well, except for Poor Edith. And Mary seems to have caught a chill.) But some folks held on to those Victorian ideas… ---
**Author:** ![ThelmaLou](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thelmalou/32/390_2.png) [@ThelmaLou](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ThelmaLou)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2013, 12:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/downton-abbey-s3-spoiler-free-until-broadcast-in-the-u-s/645791/300 "2013-01-21T12:40:49Z")
I think Daisy missed her moment. ☹ The new kitchen maid IS awfully cute. Alfred’s instantaneous reaction to her make a me think he never saw Daisy as any more than a friend/pal. It’s very tiresome that Bates has been in jail the whole danged season so far. Seems like some progress could have been made there. Violet had some great lines! [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/downton-abbey-s3-spoiler-free-until-broadcast-in-the-u-s/645791.md?page=14) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/downton-abbey-s3-spoiler-free-until-broadcast-in-the-u-s/645791.md?page=16)