# Downton Abbey S3 - spoiler-free until broadcast in the U.S. **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [January 2, 2013, 1:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/downton-abbey-s3-spoiler-free-until-broadcast-in-the-u-s/645791 "2013-01-02T01:45:23Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 26
**Author:** ![Bridget\_Burke](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7cd45c/32.png) [@Bridget\_Burke](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bridget_Burke)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2013, 1:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/downton-abbey-s3-spoiler-free-until-broadcast-in-the-u-s/645791/501 "2013-01-29T13:04:33Z")
> [@PunditLisa](#): > > We ALL profit, or not, from the circumstances of our birth. To demonize the Crawleys is to demonize ourselves. Because there are human beings alive today who don’t even have access to fresh _water_, let alone a decent education. I guarantee you that there are people in your own home town who don’t have a roof over their heads, or money to fix their car. And yet, we’re so privileged and spoiled that we spend our time prattling on about a t.v. show instead of helping them. > > In the lottery known as life, we got lucky. And some of us use our high-speed internet connections to preach about the simple life… I don’t “demonize” the Crawleys–but I don’t feel any sentimental wish to return to the good old days. So far this series, Robert has been a prime example of why Their Kind failed & why it was about time… ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2013, 2:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/downton-abbey-s3-spoiler-free-until-broadcast-in-the-u-s/645791/502 "2013-01-29T14:11:38Z")
> [@Quercus\_alba](#): > > Where does _Red Dwarf_ figure into this? 😕 Heh. Different Lister: [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joseph\_Lister,\_1st\_Baron\_Lister](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joseph_Lister,_1st_Baron_Lister) > [@Bridget\_Burke](#): > > …In Downton Abbey, remember that The Departed have gone to A Better Place. Where they don’t have to struggle with Lord Fellowes’ incoherent scripts… For those who were wondering, **Bridget** is referring to HBO’s _Game of Thrones_, where those actors are now appearing: Ser Jorah Mormont (Iain Glen): [http://awoiaf.westeros.org/images/thumb/d/d0/Jorah\_Fights\_Quotho.png/300px-Jorah\_Fights\_Quotho.png](http://awoiaf.westeros.org/images/thumb/d/d0/Jorah_Fights_Quotho.png/300px-Jorah_Fights_Quotho.png) Ygritte (Rose Leslie): [http://images5.fanpop.com/image/photos/31100000/got-game-of-thrones-31108476-500-560.jpg](http://images5.fanpop.com/image/photos/31100000/got-game-of-thrones-31108476-500-560.jpg) ---
**Author:** ![TruCelt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/trucelt/32/523_2.png) [@TruCelt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TruCelt)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2013, 2:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/downton-abbey-s3-spoiler-free-until-broadcast-in-the-u-s/645791/503 "2013-01-29T14:56:49Z")
One of the things I find really abhorrent is the difference between Carson’s reaction to Ethel’s desperate actions and Jimmy’s opportunistic actions with Lady As-bother (??). It would seem to me that the only real difference wa the number of patrons they enterained. I should think Ethel far less likely to cause a disturbance by returning to old behavior than Jimmy, who clearly sees nothing at all wrong with what he did. I don’t think a “real” Carson would have hired him. ---
**Author:** ![jsc1953](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/5daacb/32.png) [@jsc1953](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jsc1953)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2013, 3:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/downton-abbey-s3-spoiler-free-until-broadcast-in-the-u-s/645791/504 "2013-01-29T15:37:49Z")
In last week’s episode, we had the scene between Robert and the Archbishop, where, apropos de rien, Robert says “oh by the way, I don’t like Catholics”. Seemed totally out of the blue at the time – but now that we’ve had the discussion about baptizing the baby, we’re obviously headed for a conflict over religion. And I was fighting back manly sniffles during Sybil’s death – even though I knew it was coming, thanks to Facebook spoilage. All the actresses, especially Maggie Smith, just nailed it. ---
**Author:** ![TruCelt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/trucelt/32/523_2.png) [@TruCelt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TruCelt)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2013, 3:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/downton-abbey-s3-spoiler-free-until-broadcast-in-the-u-s/645791/505 "2013-01-29T15:42:51Z")
> [@jsc1953](#): > > In last week’s episode, we had the scene between Robert and the Archbishop, where, apropos de rien, Robert says “oh by the way, I don’t like Catholics”. Seemed totally out of the blue at the time – but now that we’ve had the discussion about baptizing the baby, we’re obviously headed for a conflict over religion. > > And I was fighting back manly sniffles during Sybil’s death – even though I knew it was coming, thanks to Facebook spoilage. All the actresses, especially Maggie Smith, just nailed it. I think his comment was along the lines of “There always seems to be something of the Johnny Foreigner about the Catholics.” Which was really a common sentimen well into the 1950’s here in America. When JFK ran for office, there was a fear tht he might take his orders from the Pope in Rome, instead of from the American people. Kinda funny when you consider that today’s GOP would probbly love to get a Catholic president in who would be willing to sign legislation denying all abortions. . . ---
**Author:** ![Ellen\_Cherry](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ellen_cherry/32/3600_2.png) [@Ellen\_Cherry](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ellen_Cherry)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2013, 5:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/downton-abbey-s3-spoiler-free-until-broadcast-in-the-u-s/645791/506 "2013-01-29T17:38:55Z")
> [@alphaboi867](#): > > Housemaids could work their way up to being a housekeeper or lady’s maid, but most weren’t in it for life. Most maids were farmers daughters sent away for a few years to earn money and learn housekeeping skills before they got married. Almost like a working class version of finishing school. I don’t get this. Why couldn’t farmers’ daughters learn housekeeping from their own mothers? If they’re just going to get married presumably to some farmer boy, why do they need to be “finished” by going to a fancy house to learn fancy housekeeping? Making a little cash makes sense, but I don’t buy the “learn housekeeping” part. 😕 ---
**Author:** ![Bridget\_Burke](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7cd45c/32.png) [@Bridget\_Burke](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bridget_Burke)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2013, 6:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/downton-abbey-s3-spoiler-free-until-broadcast-in-the-u-s/645791/507 "2013-01-29T18:09:58Z")
> [@jsc1953](#): > > In last week’s episode, we had the scene between Robert and the Archbishop, where, apropos de rien, Robert says “oh by the way, I don’t like Catholics”. Seemed totally out of the blue at the time – but now that we’ve had the discussion about baptizing the baby, we’re obviously headed for a conflict over religion. > > And I was fighting back manly sniffles during Sybil’s death – even though I knew it was coming, thanks to Facebook spoilage. All the actresses, especially Maggie Smith, just nailed it. Fellowes (who is Catholic) mostly avoided the topic of religion for two whole series. (How many livings does the estate support?) Robert’s out-of-the-blue remark was his cunning & subtle message that religion is now up for discussion. Of course, if Robert had gone to Sybil’s wedding in Dublin, he might have had a clue. Or not–he’s much thicker now than when the series began… ---
**Author:** ![Sampiro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/2acd7d/32.png) [@Sampiro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sampiro)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2013, 6:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/downton-abbey-s3-spoiler-free-until-broadcast-in-the-u-s/645791/508 "2013-01-29T18:29:06Z")
> [@Dewey\_Finn](#): > > Anyone remember a maid from the first series who learned how to type and moved on to a secretarial position elsewhere? I wish they’d bring her back, just to show the possibilities for women at this time. Prediction: Like Ethel she’s going to lose her way and end up using that typewriter to write porn. Which Ethel will then star in. And they’ll become so successful they’ll buy Downton Abbey from the Crawleys. Their biggest hits will include “That’s What I Call a Foot, Man!”, “Turkish Delight”, and “This Damned In Tail”. ---
**Author:** ![TruCelt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/trucelt/32/523_2.png) [@TruCelt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TruCelt)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2013, 8:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/downton-abbey-s3-spoiler-free-until-broadcast-in-the-u-s/645791/509 "2013-01-29T20:22:45Z")
> [@Ellen\_Cherry](#): > > I don’t get this. Why couldn’t farmers’ daughters learn housekeeping from their own mothers? If they’re just going to get married presumably to some farmer boy, why do they need to be “finished” by going to a fancy house to learn fancy housekeeping? Making a little cash makes sense, but I don’t buy the “learn housekeeping” part. 😕 Their Mothers were unlikely to have fine silver, persian carpets, marble tile or silk tapestries for them to practice on. There was knowledge and tradition that had to be gained/followed. An unlearnt young woman was only prepared for scullery work, and even then had to learn the etiquette of the place and people. ---
**Author:** ![Ellen\_Cherry](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ellen_cherry/32/3600_2.png) [@Ellen\_Cherry](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ellen_Cherry)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2013, 8:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/downton-abbey-s3-spoiler-free-until-broadcast-in-the-u-s/645791/510 "2013-01-29T20:53:09Z")
Well my point is, if you’re not going to stay a servant, why learn it in the first place? I realize a farm house doesn’t have fancy stuff. Whoever-it-was upthread said they were sent there as a working-class finishing school, then presumably returning to your farm life where housekeeping skills are needed. If you aren’t going to be working your whole career as a cook or lady’s maid, what’s the point of being finished for these type of tasks where you’re just heading home at the end of it to keep house in your little farm cottage? ---
**Author:** ![Bridget\_Burke](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7cd45c/32.png) [@Bridget\_Burke](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bridget_Burke)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2013, 9:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/downton-abbey-s3-spoiler-free-until-broadcast-in-the-u-s/645791/511 "2013-01-29T21:04:12Z")
The girls who worked in service for a while–not as a career–mostly did it to earn money. Most of their expenses were covered, so they might end up with some tidy sums to help begin married life. But their education was rather basic. (In fact, improvement in British public education was one reason for fewer young people going into service, eventually.) Seeing how the Quality lived was a way to expand their horizons. We saw a maid in the first series take secretarial lessons rather than settle for a life in service–or back on the farm. Or perhaps their farms prospered–they might want to get some nicer dishes & fix things up a bit… ---
**Author:** ![Sampiro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/2acd7d/32.png) [@Sampiro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sampiro)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2013, 9:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/downton-abbey-s3-spoiler-free-until-broadcast-in-the-u-s/645791/512 "2013-01-29T21:08:13Z")
[Per this chart](http://www.pbs.org/manorhouse/edwardianlife/servants_wages.html), the money, _adjusted for inflation_, was only the equivalent of a few dollars a day in today’s currency. Food and lodging were provided, but the maids had to provide their own uniforms. Thomas’s cigarettes would eat up the majority of his take pay. On that chart the highest paid servant is the chef. I would guess Mrs. Padmore earns more than Mrs. Hughes, but were Downton Abbey I wonder if she would have been paid better than Carson, or if she’s just a “cook” rather than a chef. ---
**Author:** ![Oslo\_Ostragoth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/a9a28c/32.png) [@Oslo\_Ostragoth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Oslo_Ostragoth)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2013, 10:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/downton-abbey-s3-spoiler-free-until-broadcast-in-the-u-s/645791/513 "2013-01-29T22:56:12Z")
> [@Sampiro](#): > > [Per this chart](http://www.pbs.org/manorhouse/edwardianlife/servants_wages.html), the money, _adjusted for inflation_, was only the equivalent of a few dollars a day in today’s currency. Food and lodging were provided, but the maids had to provide their own uniforms. > Thomas’s cigarettes would eat up the majority of his take pay. > > On that chart the highest paid servant is the chef. I would guess Mrs. Padmore earns more than Mrs. Hughes, but were Downton Abbey I wonder if she would have been paid better than Carson, or if she’s just a “cook” rather than a chef. That reminds me: IIRC, on the show Manor House, they made it a point that the housekeepers would stop what they were doing and face away if an “upstairs” person approached. OTOH, the Crawleys are downright chummy with the staff. ---
**Author:** ![alphaboi867](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alphaboi867/32/3898_2.png) [@alphaboi867](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/alphaboi867)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2013, 11:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/downton-abbey-s3-spoiler-free-until-broadcast-in-the-u-s/645791/514 "2013-01-29T23:03:34Z")
> [@Bridget\_Burke](#): > > …Of course, if Robert had gone to Sybil’s wedding in Dublin, he might have had a clue. Or not–he’s much thicker now than when the series began… Robert’s complained about having a “Fenian grandchild”, but he probally took it for granted that any children would be raised in the mother’s religion. Which brings up another point, could Tom & Sybil have had a Catholic wedding in 1920? 😕 She said she was going to live with Tom’s mother while the banns were read, but both the Anglican and Roman Catholic churches have banns. > [@Sampiro](#): > > …On that chart the highest paid servant is the chef. I would guess Mrs. Padmore earns more than Mrs. Hughes, but were Downton Abbey I wonder if she would have been paid better than Carson, or if she’s just a “cook” rather than a chef. With her skills and the kind of entertaining the Crawleys do she probally does make at least as much if not more than Carson. Very few households, even of the high nobility had male chefs. Those that did usually brought them over from France and payed them much more than the butler. ---
**Author:** ![hajario](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hajario/32/171_2.png) [@hajario](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hajario)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2013, 11:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/downton-abbey-s3-spoiler-free-until-broadcast-in-the-u-s/645791/515 "2013-01-29T23:26:40Z")
> [@Oslo\_Ostragoth](#): > > That reminds me: IIRC, on the show Manor House, they made it a point that the housekeepers would stop what they were doing and face away if an “upstairs” person approached. OTOH, the Crawleys are downright chummy with the staff. I have a friends whose mother is from Ireland. She was in the service when she was a very young woman which would have been in the early 1950s. She finds the chumminess to be the least authentic thing about that show. Even though her service was decades later, she said that no one other than the equivalent of Mr. Carson was even addressed by the staff and that they were treated like a piece of furniture by their employers. ---
**Author:** ![kath94](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/67e7ee/32.png) [@kath94](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kath94)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2013, 12:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/downton-abbey-s3-spoiler-free-until-broadcast-in-the-u-s/645791/516 "2013-01-30T00:43:40Z")
> [@hajario](#): > > I have a friends whose mother is from Ireland. She was in the service when she was a very young woman which would have been in the early 1950s. She finds the chumminess to be the least authentic thing about that show. Even though her service was decades later, she said that no one other than the equivalent of Mr. Carson was even addressed by the staff and that they were treated like a piece of furniture by their employers. I’ve wondered about that. Recently Anna asked Robert for a moment of his time. Wouldn’t she have asked Mrs. Hughes to relay a message, rather than being so impertinent as to address the master herself? Also, while awaiting the birth of Sybil’s child, I would have expected the dinner to continue as planned, with the exception of the doctor leaving the table to attend to her. Then, an announcement would have been made that the child was born, the gender, and their general health, and the meal continued. I hardly expected that they’d drop everything because THE BABY’S COMING! Heck, even my husband, who was born at home in England, tells the story of how his father was reading the newspaper downstairs while he was being born upstairs. ---
**Author:** ![jehan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/f6c823/32.png) [@jehan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jehan)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2013, 12:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/downton-abbey-s3-spoiler-free-until-broadcast-in-the-u-s/645791/517 "2013-01-30T00:44:37Z")
Flora Thompson’s “Lark Rise to Candleford” (the book, not the TV series which has little relationship to the book), has some interesting observations about the girls who went into service. Most of them were sent out at 12 or 13 years old, to earn a little money and because the families they came from were poor and one daughter gone meant more food for the others and more room in a crowded cottage for the other numerous kids. They would serve a couple years in a farmhouse or other smaller place, and then hope to move up to a larger household once they had a little experience. A place like Downtown would be considered very prestigious indeed. Every house middle class or above would have had at least one servant. They would work for several years (possibly 10 or more) to earn enough to set up a household if they married- the lower classes could not afford to marry young. And if they had a boyfriend or fiance “back home” they might see him for a week or two each year for that entire time. They also often sent money home to their families from their meager earnings. One benefit they sometimes got was their mistresses cast off clothes. ---
**Author:** ![StGermain](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/stgermain/32/2868_2.png) [@StGermain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/StGermain)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2013, 12:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/downton-abbey-s3-spoiler-free-until-broadcast-in-the-u-s/645791/518 "2013-01-30T00:46:54Z")
I just rewatched part of the first episode. Right at the beginning the servants are busy cleaning before the family gets up. Daisy is working on setting fires in the fireplaces. Mrs. Hughes tells her to hurry up, she needs to be out of there before the family comes down. It’s obvious the family is not meant to have to see her. By the time the housemaids have gotten up at 6:00, Daisy’s put in nearly a full day. StG ---
**Author:** ![alphaboi867](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alphaboi867/32/3898_2.png) [@alphaboi867](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/alphaboi867)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2013, 1:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/downton-abbey-s3-spoiler-free-until-broadcast-in-the-u-s/645791/519 "2013-01-30T01:17:59Z")
> [@jehan](#): > > …One benefit they sometimes got was their mistresses cast off clothes. That’s a much better perk than it sounds. Clothing, especially the kind Lady Grantham wears, would fetch a pretty penny when sold at 2nd hand shops. It was one of the major perks of being lady’s maid. ---
**Author:** ![brownMouse](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/df788c/32.png) [@brownMouse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/brownMouse)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2013, 2:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/downton-abbey-s3-spoiler-free-until-broadcast-in-the-u-s/645791/520 "2013-01-30T02:58:47Z")
> [@Sampiro](#): > > Prediction: Like Ethel she’s going to lose her way and end up using that typewriter to write porn. > > Which Ethel will then star in. > > And they’ll become so successful they’ll buy Downton Abbey from the Crawleys. > > Their biggest hits will include “That’s What I Call a Foot, Man!”, “Turkish Delight”, and “This Damned In Tail”. ROFL!!! [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/downton-abbey-s3-spoiler-free-until-broadcast-in-the-u-s/645791.md?page=25) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/downton-abbey-s3-spoiler-free-until-broadcast-in-the-u-s/645791.md?page=27)