# Downton Abbey S3 - spoiler-free until broadcast in the U.S. **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [January 2, 2013, 1:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/downton-abbey-s3-spoiler-free-until-broadcast-in-the-u-s/645791 "2013-01-02T01:45:23Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 27
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2013, 3:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/downton-abbey-s3-spoiler-free-until-broadcast-in-the-u-s/645791/521 "2013-01-30T03:48:13Z")
> [@kath94](#): > > …I hardly expected that they’d drop everything because THE BABY’S COMING! Heck, even my husband, who was born at home in England, tells the story of how his father was reading the newspaper downstairs while he was being born upstairs. Yes, Branson and everyone else rushing upstairs for the delivery seemed anachronistic. As recently as 1948, Prince Philip raised no eyebrows by playing polo while his first son was being born. ---
**Author:** ![alphaboi867](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alphaboi867/32/3898_2.png) [@alphaboi867](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/alphaboi867)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2013, 3:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/downton-abbey-s3-spoiler-free-until-broadcast-in-the-u-s/645791/522 "2013-01-30T03:56:13Z")
> [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](#): > > Yes, Branson and everyone else rushing upstairs for the delivery seemed anachronistic. As recently as 1948, Prince Philip raised no eyebrows by playing polo while his first son was being born. Would any of the women have gone up, or would they have stayed at the table too? I just don’t see Cora sitting at the table while her youngest daughter is in labour (Violet & Mary doing that wouldn’t surprise me). ---
**Author:** ![ThelmaLou](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thelmalou/32/390_2.png) [@ThelmaLou](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ThelmaLou)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2013, 5:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/downton-abbey-s3-spoiler-free-until-broadcast-in-the-u-s/645791/523 "2013-01-30T05:03:56Z")
> [@kath94](#): > > I’ve wondered about that. Recently Anna asked Robert for a moment of his time. Wouldn’t she have asked Mrs. Hughes to relay a message, rather than being so impertinent as to address the master herself? > . As I understand it, the butler was the only one who was allowed to address household members without being spoken to by one of them first. Also, he was permitted to enter a room without knocking. I learned this from the first go-round of Upstairs Downstairs. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2013, 5:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/downton-abbey-s3-spoiler-free-until-broadcast-in-the-u-s/645791/524 "2013-01-30T05:59:19Z")
> [@alphaboi867](#): > > London specialist with a knighthood who specializes in serving the aristocracy vs a country GP. Not only was Robert in awe of him he was also profoundly uncomfortable with _any_ discussion of details of pregnancy. It’s exactly what a man in his position would do. Remember we’re only a generation or two removed from the days when most people blindly treated doctors orders as commandments, didn’t ask questions, and would never dream of seeking a 2nd opinion. My mother had aunts who got hysterectomies without ever asking why; because the doctor said so. At the same time most doctors simply weren’t willing to go against another doctor. That Clarkson did shows alot of courage on his part. > . In awe? A Earl? Of a mere Knight? And, I’ll point out that if Dr Clarkson had been wrong, then likely both would have been dead, Or at least the Mother. This is just poor writing for two reason: Drama does not mean tragedy, and the meme that when someone warns you, they are always right needs to be subverted once in a while. In fast when they all came down and said Mother & daughter are fine, I was going “Well, that’s a surprise, and good writing…” but then I was wrong. ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2013, 2:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/downton-abbey-s3-spoiler-free-until-broadcast-in-the-u-s/645791/525 "2013-01-30T14:26:32Z")
I thought I was wrong once, but I was mistaken. ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2013, 3:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/downton-abbey-s3-spoiler-free-until-broadcast-in-the-u-s/645791/526 "2013-01-30T15:09:30Z")
> [@alphaboi867](#): > > I just don’t see Cora sitting at the table while her youngest daughter is in labour Well, she is an _American_ after all … ---
**Author:** ![Sampiro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/2acd7d/32.png) [@Sampiro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sampiro)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2013, 3:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/downton-abbey-s3-spoiler-free-until-broadcast-in-the-u-s/645791/527 "2013-01-30T15:44:00Z")
I don’t know why elaving the dinner to attend the labour is a surprise. I’ve read that England actually has labour parties. ---
**Author:** ![Bridget\_Burke](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7cd45c/32.png) [@Bridget\_Burke](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bridget_Burke)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2013, 3:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/downton-abbey-s3-spoiler-free-until-broadcast-in-the-u-s/645791/528 "2013-01-30T15:59:05Z")
> [@alphaboi867](#): > > Robert’s complained about having a “Fenian grandchild”, but he probally took it for granted that any children would be raised in the mother’s religion. Which brings up another point, could Tom & Sybil have had a Catholic wedding in 1920? 😕 She said she was going to live with Tom’s mother while the banns were read, but both the Anglican and Roman Catholic churches have banns… Mixed marriages existed back then; the Protestant partner usually agreed any children would be raised Catholic. Weddings could be held in a Catholic church but modestly–without a full-drag Nuptial Mass. Religion could have been one of Robert’s objections to Branson in series 2–but Fellowes may not have decided he wanted to use the topic. Long term plot development is not his strong point. ---
**Author:** ![kath94](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/67e7ee/32.png) [@kath94](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kath94)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2013, 5:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/downton-abbey-s3-spoiler-free-until-broadcast-in-the-u-s/645791/529 "2013-01-30T17:29:58Z")
> [@Bridget\_Burke](#): > > \Religion could have been one of Robert’s objections to Branson in series 2–but Fellowes may not have decided he wanted to use the topic. Long term plot development is not his strong point. Agreed, but the Granthams, like most of their ilk, were far less concerned with religious differences than with the class differences. Sybil ran off with THE CHAUFFEUR! What will others think of us?!? ---
**Author:** ![ThelmaLou](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thelmalou/32/390_2.png) [@ThelmaLou](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ThelmaLou)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2013, 5:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/downton-abbey-s3-spoiler-free-until-broadcast-in-the-u-s/645791/530 "2013-01-30T17:39:57Z")
Someone refresh my memory, why was Murray the lawyer at Downton when he was? Matthew took him aside to put a bug in his ear about the management of the estate, but I thought Murray was there for another reason. I can’t remember. ---
**Author:** ![hajario](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hajario/32/171_2.png) [@hajario](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hajario)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2013, 5:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/downton-abbey-s3-spoiler-free-until-broadcast-in-the-u-s/645791/531 "2013-01-30T17:43:14Z")
> [@ThelmaLou](#): > > Someone refresh my memory, why was Murray the lawyer at Downton when he was? Matthew took him aside to put a bug in his ear about the management of the estate, but I thought Murray was there for another reason. I can’t remember. He was there to discuss the new Bates evidence. ---
**Author:** ![Ellen\_Cherry](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ellen_cherry/32/3600_2.png) [@Ellen\_Cherry](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ellen_Cherry)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2013, 6:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/downton-abbey-s3-spoiler-free-until-broadcast-in-the-u-s/645791/532 "2013-01-30T18:31:13Z")
> [@Bridget\_Burke](#): > > Mixed marriages existed back then; the Protestant partner usually agreed any children would be raised Catholic. Weddings could be held in a Catholic church but modestly–without a full-drag Nuptial Mass. “_Could_ be held” being operative. A woman in the church where I grew up (in the US, late 1950s) told me that the priest refused to marry her in the church. It was a sacramental wedding all right — but the prick made them come to the rectory for a quickly shameful exchange of vows. No nice wedding for you, you Protestant-marryer! :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![ThelmaLou](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thelmalou/32/390_2.png) [@ThelmaLou](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ThelmaLou)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2013, 7:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/downton-abbey-s3-spoiler-free-until-broadcast-in-the-u-s/645791/533 "2013-01-30T19:22:17Z")
> [@hajario](#): > > He was there to discuss the new Bates evidence. K, I 'member now. Too much shit happening to keep track of it all. > [@Ellen\_Cherry](#): > > “_Could_ be held” being operative. A woman in the church where I grew up (in the US, late 1950s) told me that the priest refused to marry her in the church. It was a sacramental wedding all right — but the prick made them come to the rectory for a quickly shameful exchange of vows. No nice wedding for you, you Protestant-marryer! :rolleyes: He wasn’t necessarily a prick because that wasn’t his rule; that was THE rule. To be married in the physical church building, both had to be Catholics. If one person wasn’t, the wedding took place in the rectory. It wasn’t seen as particularly \*shameful \*at the time, just the way it was done. ---
**Author:** ![Sampiro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/2acd7d/32.png) [@Sampiro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sampiro)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2013, 7:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/downton-abbey-s3-spoiler-free-until-broadcast-in-the-u-s/645791/534 "2013-01-30T19:35:18Z")
I know a couple in which she’s a Catholic, he’s both Protestant and divorced, and while they were unable to get _married_ in the church the priest did give a blessing to the union. Does anybody know if that’s a common practice for people who can’t get full-sacrament married? ---
**Author:** ![ThelmaLou](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thelmalou/32/390_2.png) [@ThelmaLou](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ThelmaLou)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2013, 7:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/downton-abbey-s3-spoiler-free-until-broadcast-in-the-u-s/645791/535 "2013-01-30T19:56:50Z")
> [@Sampiro](#): > > I know a couple in which she’s a Catholic, he’s both Protestant and divorced, and while they were unable to get _married_ in the church the priest did give a blessing to the union. Does anybody know if that’s a common practice for people who can’t get full-sacrament married? I’m pretty sure it is. Remember, priests’ hands are tied by Rome and by their local bishop. As for “full sacrament marriage,” when a Catholic and non-Catholic marry, it’s still a sacramental marriage, isn’t it? Or has it been so long since I’ve been a Catholic that I’ve forgotten. I know some rules have been relaxed. (I keep thinking about all those poor bastards who are frying in hell because they ate meat on Friday back when it was a sin. I guess the joke’s on them, eh?) ^^^^^^^^^^ not serious ---
**Author:** ![PunditLisa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/4af34b/32.png) [@PunditLisa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PunditLisa)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2013, 9:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/downton-abbey-s3-spoiler-free-until-broadcast-in-the-u-s/645791/536 "2013-01-30T21:22:41Z")
My father is Catholic and my mother is not. They were not allowed to celebrate a wedding mass because she wasn’t Catholic, so they got married by a judge. I believe that the union was blessed by the church because she agreed to raise their children to be Catholics. This would be ~1960. And they’re still married. As far as fairness goes, I can see both sides. However, I lean to the side that if you join a club, you should be prepared to follow their rules. If you don’t want to follow their rules, then don’t join the club. ---
**Author:** ![Ellen\_Cherry](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ellen_cherry/32/3600_2.png) [@Ellen\_Cherry](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ellen_Cherry)\ **Post date:** [January 31, 2013, 1:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/downton-abbey-s3-spoiler-free-until-broadcast-in-the-u-s/645791/537 "2013-01-31T13:31:39Z")
> [@ThelmaLou](#): > > K, I 'member now. Too much shit happening to keep track of it all. > He wasn’t necessarily a prick because that wasn’t his rule; that was THE rule. To be married in the physical church building, both had to be Catholics. If one person wasn’t, the wedding took place in the rectory. It wasn’t seen as particularly \*shameful \*at the time, just the way it was done. You’re probably right, but he made my friend feel so ashamed I think he was a prick. ---
**Author:** ![IvoryTowerDenizen](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ivorytowerdenizen/32/17937_2.png) [@IvoryTowerDenizen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/IvoryTowerDenizen)\ **Post date:** [January 31, 2013, 1:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/downton-abbey-s3-spoiler-free-until-broadcast-in-the-u-s/645791/538 "2013-01-31T13:57:11Z")
> [@Ellen\_Cherry](#): > > You’re probably right, but he made my friend feel so ashamed I think he was a prick. There’s the text… and the subtext. He probably did try to shame her and used the text of the rule as his vehicle. That’s really too bad. ---
**Author:** ![ThelmaLou](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thelmalou/32/390_2.png) [@ThelmaLou](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ThelmaLou)\ **Post date:** [February 1, 2013, 12:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/downton-abbey-s3-spoiler-free-until-broadcast-in-the-u-s/645791/539 "2013-02-01T00:15:29Z")
> [@Ellen\_Cherry](#): > > You’re probably right, but he made my friend feel so ashamed I think he was a prick. > [@IvoryTowerDenizen](#): > > There’s the text… and the subtext. > > He probably did try to shame her and used the text of the rule as his vehicle. That’s really too bad. I’ll go along with that. It was a rule, but some priests were definitely pricks about it and some were decent, compassionate human beings. I’m so sorry your friend drew a prick. (Not defending the Church, BTW… just about everything having to do with once being a Catholic has left a bad taste in my mouth.) ---
**Author:** ![jsc1953](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/5daacb/32.png) [@jsc1953](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jsc1953)\ **Post date:** [February 1, 2013, 12:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/downton-abbey-s3-spoiler-free-until-broadcast-in-the-u-s/645791/540 "2013-02-01T00:21:58Z")
As a counter-anecdote, when my parents were married in 1949, my mother was Catholic, my father Episcopalian. Our parish priest said “eh…close enough\*” and married them in the church, full -blown Catholic ceremony. \*or words to that effect. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/downton-abbey-s3-spoiler-free-until-broadcast-in-the-u-s/645791.md?page=26) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/downton-abbey-s3-spoiler-free-until-broadcast-in-the-u-s/645791.md?page=28)