# Downton Abbey S3 - spoiler-free until broadcast in the U.S. **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [January 2, 2013, 1:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/downton-abbey-s3-spoiler-free-until-broadcast-in-the-u-s/645791 "2013-01-02T01:45:23Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 32
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2013, 9:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/downton-abbey-s3-spoiler-free-until-broadcast-in-the-u-s/645791/621 "2013-02-04T21:30:02Z")
Had there been no doctor at all at the birth, Sybil would have died. Had Dr. Sir Asshole’s advice been followed to the letter, Sybil would have died. Had Dr. Clarkson’s advice been taken at the earliest opportunity, she might just possibly have lived. Isn’t a slight hope, given the medical knowledge of the day, better than none at all? ---
**Author:** ![hajario](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hajario/32/171_2.png) [@hajario](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hajario)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2013, 9:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/downton-abbey-s3-spoiler-free-until-broadcast-in-the-u-s/645791/622 "2013-02-04T21:44:27Z")
> [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](#): > > Isn’t a slight hope, given the medical knowledge of the day, better than none at all? I think so but his further point was that she would have had a much more painful and frightening death if she died in exchange for a very slight chance of living. ---
**Author:** ![alphaboi867](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alphaboi867/32/3898_2.png) [@alphaboi867](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/alphaboi867)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2013, 9:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/downton-abbey-s3-spoiler-free-until-broadcast-in-the-u-s/645791/623 "2013-02-04T21:54:22Z")
> [@Bridget\_Burke](#): > > Violet used her power over Doctor Clarkson to shelter her little boy from the results of his actions. She has probably been doing that all his life–which explains why he is so sure that he can never be wrong. Good point. Has anybody else had any Downton Abbey inspired dreams lately? Last night I dreamed the family were having a dinner, but the Carson & the foormen were serving them Chinese take-out. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![ThelmaLou](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thelmalou/32/390_2.png) [@ThelmaLou](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ThelmaLou)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2013, 10:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/downton-abbey-s3-spoiler-free-until-broadcast-in-the-u-s/645791/624 "2013-02-04T22:03:26Z")
> [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](#): > > Had there been no doctor at all at the birth, Sybil would have died. Had Dr. Sir Asshole’s advice been followed to the letter, Sybil would have died. Had Dr. Clarkson’s advice been taken at the earliest opportunity, she might just possibly have lived. Isn’t a slight hope, given the medical knowledge of the day, better than none at all? Before she was dead, sure. But after she was dead and the family divided, what would be the point of belaboring this (as it were)? That’s what I mean about Violet being a realist. ---
**Author:** ![StGermain](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/stgermain/32/2868_2.png) [@StGermain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/StGermain)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2013, 10:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/downton-abbey-s3-spoiler-free-until-broadcast-in-the-u-s/645791/625 "2013-02-04T22:13:10Z")
> [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](#): > > Had there been no doctor at all at the birth, Sybil would have died. Had Dr. Sir Asshole’s advice been followed to the letter, Sybil would have died. Had Dr. Clarkson’s advice been taken at the earliest opportunity, she might just possibly have lived. Isn’t a slight hope, given the medical knowledge of the day, better than none at all? A slight hope, while there is a hope, might be better than none. There is no hope in this situation. But to blame your husband for your daughter’s death and ruin a loving marriage for something whose outcome can’t be changed, thinking it was a certainty that she definitely would’ve survived if Robert had acted differently, has no purpose. Sybil is dead. Sybil was almost certainly doomed. And Cora saw the entire thing as black or white - Sybil definitely would’ve lived had Robert only heeded Dr. Clarkson’s warning. She needed to be told it wasn’t that cut and dried. I like Robert, and see a great deal of myself in him. Yes, he is often pigheaded, but he _tries_ to act in what he sees as the best interest of the family and the estate. He’s not lazy and he has sacrificed for his estate - it’s not all being dressed by valets and waited on by footmen. He’s human. He makes mistakes. But he does try. StG ---
**Author:** ![LavenderBlue](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/e95f7d/32.png) [@LavenderBlue](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LavenderBlue)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2013, 11:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/downton-abbey-s3-spoiler-free-until-broadcast-in-the-u-s/645791/626 "2013-02-04T23:00:18Z")
I can’t stand Robert. He’s a smug, arrogant, pompous, incompetent little man who has been thrust into a position of leadership he is not qualified for solely by virtue of his birth. He’s rude to both Matthew and Tom, going so far as to treat Tom like hired help and arguing with the guy over his religion and even choice of name for his daughter. He’s mean to Edith by not letting her write. He treats Cora with great contempt. He had the nerve to lecture Ethel about her behavior but he had an affair. I’m glad people like him have less power now. ---
**Author:** ![brownMouse](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/df788c/32.png) [@brownMouse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/brownMouse)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2013, 11:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/downton-abbey-s3-spoiler-free-until-broadcast-in-the-u-s/645791/627 "2013-02-04T23:52:15Z")
Anybody else find it interesting that Daisy, for the first time, acknowledged to someone that William was her husband? Seems like up until now, she’d been dodging the fact, by saying things like “it was only for a few hours!” etc. Also loved the look on her face when her FIL said to her “ya think places like Downton are going to continue as is? Pffftt!! I think not!” ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2013, 1:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/downton-abbey-s3-spoiler-free-until-broadcast-in-the-u-s/645791/628 "2013-02-05T01:25:14Z")
Yup. He’s pretty far-sighted for a farmer. ---
**Author:** ![StGermain](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/stgermain/32/2868_2.png) [@StGermain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/StGermain)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2013, 1:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/downton-abbey-s3-spoiler-free-until-broadcast-in-the-u-s/645791/629 "2013-02-05T01:28:33Z")
**LavenderBlue** (dilly dilly - I always mentally say that when I see your name) - Robert is all too human. He treats Tom like the hired help because Tom _was_ the hired help. But he stood by Bates when both Carson and Cora thought he should go, as well as when he was convicted of murder. He acknowledged he owes Bates when he found out about the scandal being quashed. He trusted the specialist because he’s a high-priced, well-respected society doctor instead of a country GP - if I was told I had cancer, guess which one I would trust? He’s helped the servants where he could - Mrs. Patmore can see, the one servant whose son he helped into a better school, Bates with a high-priced lawyer (would Bates be alive now if he’d hired the village lawyer?) as well as hiring him when most would seen an unemployable cripple. The servants have always felt secure in going to him for help - far different then would have happened in most houses! He’s having trouble adjusting to changing times - well, the world is very different for me from 1961 when I was born until now, and some changes _aren’t_ for the better, for me at least. He’s kind and well-meaning. You’re right, he isn’t well-equipped to handle the estate, but he’s probably as well -equipped as any of his ancestors - the world is just moving too fast for him. We are also judging him by modern eyes. Even though I’m Catholic, I can see that his consternation is probably less than it would be in many households today. Imagine if Sybil had married Mr. Pamuk! I would definitely go for William’s father. What a great guy! StG ---
**Author:** ![phall0106](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/phall0106/32/5934_2.png) [@phall0106](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/phall0106)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2013, 1:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/downton-abbey-s3-spoiler-free-until-broadcast-in-the-u-s/645791/630 "2013-02-05T01:40:57Z")
> [@AuntiePam](#): > > I’d really be okay with this. He’s a charmer. Would Daisy consider him? She’s so uptight about the oddest things. She might think it’d be incestuous or something. > > I finally figured out who the cute new footman reminds me of – the guy on _The Mentalist_. I agree on both points, **AuntiePam**. ---
**Author:** ![freckafree](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/freckafree/32/3050_2.png) [@freckafree](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/freckafree)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2013, 1:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/downton-abbey-s3-spoiler-free-until-broadcast-in-the-u-s/645791/631 "2013-02-05T01:50:24Z")
Ditto with _The Mentalist_. In fact, when James first appeared, I had to look him up on IMDB to see if it was the same actor. ---
**Author:** ![Eyebrows\_0f\_Doom](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eyebrows_0f_doom/32/3119_2.png) [@Eyebrows\_0f\_Doom](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eyebrows_0f_Doom)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2013, 6:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/downton-abbey-s3-spoiler-free-until-broadcast-in-the-u-s/645791/632 "2013-02-05T06:20:07Z")
> [@ThelmaLou](#): > > Does anyone have any idea what was the POINT of the whole Bates circular arc? Either in the real world or the story’s world? Did the actor need time off for a face-lift or something? I mean, they probably filmed Bates’s part in one day, and he didn’t even change costumes or make-up. > > A LOT has changed at D.A. since his absence. Is THAT the point? To show conflict as he moves back in? He wasn’t there all that long to begin with. He wasn’t an old family retainer like Mr. C. And anyway, we hardly need more conflict or storylines. We’re up to our asses in them as it is. > > Thanks for clarification on the remaining episodes. Yeah. I’ve said many times how Bates is my favorite character on the show, and even I was bored silly by the \*terrible \*plotting of the prison storyline. It just dragged on and on and on (he \*was \*literally going in a circle!) but was then finally resolved way too quickly and in a bizarrely confusing yet too easy way. My first thought back in season 2 was that Vera poisoned herself to frame Bates, but then when it became a whole story of trying to find out what really happened, I thought “No, it’s got to be more interesting than that!” It felt like Fellowes just wrote himself into a corner. The arrest & trial last season were interesting, but he didn’t know what to do once he actually had him in prison. I think it also kinda sucks for Brendan Coyle (who plays Bates) to have gotten such crap screentime this season. He was nominated for a Best Supporting Actor Emmy for Season 2, and yet I don’t think he’s had even 10 minutes of screentime so far! In total! They are totally wasting his talents. > [@Ellen\_Cherry](#): > > I think they briefly lived in their own little cottage after they got married and before he was carted off an accused murderer. Nope. They got married on a Friday, had their wedding night (thanks Mary!) and he was then arrested that Monday after Lavinia’s funeral. Until the arrest, only Mary even knew they were married! (And Jane, but she was no longer there.) > [@Dewey\_Finn](#): > > I can’t answer the rest, but my sense is that the cellmate and the guard resent Bates for his privileged position. (Yes, he is/was a servant, but he’s a servant to a high-ranking person and therefore relatively lucky.) Just think of them as Prison Thomas and Prison O’Brien. (Guess that would make the little guy who helped him out Prison Anna…) > [@alphaboi867](#): > > Yep, their own cottage and Anna would retire if & when she get’s pregnant. Married servants were rare, married female servants were pretty much unheard of. Only upper servants (like bulters & valets) were allowed to marry, and were often still required to live in the house and only saw their families on their days off. Wouldn’t Anna be considered an upper servant now that she is Mary’s lady’s maid and not just the head housemaid? ---
**Author:** ![hajario](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hajario/32/171_2.png) [@hajario](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hajario)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2013, 6:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/downton-abbey-s3-spoiler-free-until-broadcast-in-the-u-s/645791/633 "2013-02-05T06:23:30Z")
With Bates back as valet, Mr. Barrows will go back to first footman Thomas. What of James and Alfred? Does one of them have to go? ---
**Author:** ![alphaboi867](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alphaboi867/32/3898_2.png) [@alphaboi867](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/alphaboi867)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2013, 6:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/downton-abbey-s3-spoiler-free-until-broadcast-in-the-u-s/645791/634 "2013-02-05T06:38:13Z")
> [@Eyebrows\_0f\_Doom](#): > > …Wouldn’t Anna be considered an upper servant now that she is Mary’s lady’s maid and not just the head housemaid? She would, but married lady’s maids were pretty much unheard of. _Male_ upper servants might be allowed to marry, but married female servants of any rank were pretty much unheard off. Widows were acceptable, provided they had no dependent children. Remember how big a deal it was for them to hire Jane, and they only made an exception for her because she was a _war_ widow. ---
**Author:** ![Bridget\_Burke](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7cd45c/32.png) [@Bridget\_Burke](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bridget_Burke)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2013, 6:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/downton-abbey-s3-spoiler-free-until-broadcast-in-the-u-s/645791/635 "2013-02-05T06:39:28Z")
> [@StGermain](#): > > …I like Robert, and see a great deal of myself in him. Yes, he is often pigheaded, but he _tries_ to act in what he sees as the best interest of the family and the estate. He’s not lazy and he has sacrificed for his estate - it’s not all being dressed by valets and waited on by footmen. He’s human. He makes mistakes. But he does try. > > StG What, precisely, has Robert “sacrificed” for his estate? He married a woman he didn’t love for her family’s money. Then fell in love with her. Well, except for the time he kissed a maid while Cora was deathly ill with influenza. But he didn’t actually fuck the servant, so that was OK… Robert has been pretty worthless this season. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2013, 9:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/downton-abbey-s3-spoiler-free-until-broadcast-in-the-u-s/645791/636 "2013-02-05T09:02:38Z")
catch me up here. Do I have this straight? Daisy fancies Alfred who fancies Ivy. There’s a new footman named Jimmy Kent who is a a cocky ladies man. Thomas fancies Jimmy who is repulsed by his advances and Sarah is setting some kind of trap based on this. Is she setting up Thomas or Jimmy? ---
**Author:** ![ThelmaLou](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thelmalou/32/390_2.png) [@ThelmaLou](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ThelmaLou)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2013, 11:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/downton-abbey-s3-spoiler-free-until-broadcast-in-the-u-s/645791/637 "2013-02-05T11:13:11Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > catch me up here. Do I have this straight? Daisy fancies Alfred who fancies Ivy. There’s a new footman named Jimmy Kent who is a a cocky ladies man. Thomas fancies Jimmy who is repulsed by his advances and Sarah is setting some kind of trap based on this. Is she setting up Thomas or Jimmy? As I see it, she is setting up Thomas AND Jimmy to clear the path for her nephew Alfred to rise in the ranks, probably to Lord Grantham’s valet. So she won’t be glad to see Bates coming back. ---
**Author:** ![Ellen\_Cherry](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ellen_cherry/32/3600_2.png) [@Ellen\_Cherry](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ellen_Cherry)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2013, 11:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/downton-abbey-s3-spoiler-free-until-broadcast-in-the-u-s/645791/638 "2013-02-05T11:24:00Z")
O’Brien’s name is Sarah? When have they ever called her that? ---
**Author:** ![LavenderBlue](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/e95f7d/32.png) [@LavenderBlue](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LavenderBlue)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2013, 2:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/downton-abbey-s3-spoiler-free-until-broadcast-in-the-u-s/645791/639 "2013-02-05T14:00:45Z")
> [@Ellen\_Cherry](#): > > O’Brien’s name is Sarah? When have they ever called her that? She called herself Sarah right after putting the soap on the floor that killed Cora’s baby. ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2013, 6:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/downton-abbey-s3-spoiler-free-until-broadcast-in-the-u-s/645791/640 "2013-02-05T18:39:15Z")
I give you the Downton love map - the actors’ comments are interesting: [http://pinterest.com/pin/209487820138706400/](http://pinterest.com/pin/209487820138706400/) [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/downton-abbey-s3-spoiler-free-until-broadcast-in-the-u-s/645791.md?page=31) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/downton-abbey-s3-spoiler-free-until-broadcast-in-the-u-s/645791.md?page=33)