# Downton Abbey S3 - spoiler-free until broadcast in the U.S. **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [January 2, 2013, 1:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/downton-abbey-s3-spoiler-free-until-broadcast-in-the-u-s/645791 "2013-01-02T01:45:23Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 33
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2013, 7:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/downton-abbey-s3-spoiler-free-until-broadcast-in-the-u-s/645791/641 "2013-02-05T19:48:21Z")
And BTW, has that piano always been in the corner of the staff dining room? I was surprised when Jimmy began playing it. ---
**Author:** ![jsc1953](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/5daacb/32.png) [@jsc1953](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jsc1953)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2013, 8:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/downton-abbey-s3-spoiler-free-until-broadcast-in-the-u-s/645791/642 "2013-02-05T20:19:09Z")
> [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](#): > > And BTW, has that piano always been in the corner of the staff dining room? I was surprised when Jimmy began playing it. Yeah; William played it once or twice in Season 1. ---
**Author:** ![hajario](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hajario/32/171_2.png) [@hajario](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hajario)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2013, 8:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/downton-abbey-s3-spoiler-free-until-broadcast-in-the-u-s/645791/643 "2013-02-05T20:20:25Z")
> [@jsc1953](#): > > Yeah; William played it once or twice in Season 1. I think it was mentioned in the last episode that no one had played it since William. ---
**Author:** ![Sampiro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/2acd7d/32.png) [@Sampiro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sampiro)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2013, 8:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/downton-abbey-s3-spoiler-free-until-broadcast-in-the-u-s/645791/644 "2013-02-05T20:44:32Z")
> [@LavenderBlue](#): > > She called herself Sarah right after putting the soap on the floor that killed Cora’s baby. Two seasons later I’m still wondering how slipping in a bathroom = automatic miscarriage. ---
**Author:** ![jsc1953](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/5daacb/32.png) [@jsc1953](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jsc1953)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2013, 8:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/downton-abbey-s3-spoiler-free-until-broadcast-in-the-u-s/645791/645 "2013-02-05T20:52:40Z")
Pregnant women [in FilmLand] are always falling down (Scarlett O’Hara being the archetype) and it’s inevitably fetal fatal. > **[Convenient Miscarriage - TV Tropes](https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/ConvenientMiscarriage)** > > In television, pregnancies are more likely to end in a recognized miscarriage than they do in real life. What's a female character to do when she discovers she is pregnant? It would not be too controversial for television writers to suggest an … ---
**Author:** ![alphaboi867](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alphaboi867/32/3898_2.png) [@alphaboi867](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/alphaboi867)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2013, 11:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/downton-abbey-s3-spoiler-free-until-broadcast-in-the-u-s/645791/646 "2013-02-05T23:54:06Z")
> [@ThelmaLou](#): > > As I see it, she is setting up Thomas AND Jimmy to clear the path for her nephew Alfred to rise in the ranks, probably to Lord Grantham’s valet. So she won’t be glad to see Bates coming back. I think she’s setting Thomas up, Jimmy’s just collateral damage. She was trying to get Alfred to become _Matthew’s_ valet; at this point I don’t think she really cares about Bates anymore. ---
**Author:** ![jsc1953](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/5daacb/32.png) [@jsc1953](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jsc1953)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2013, 11:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/downton-abbey-s3-spoiler-free-until-broadcast-in-the-u-s/645791/647 "2013-02-05T23:56:00Z")
> [@alphaboi867](#): > > I think she’s setting Thomas up, Jimmy’s just collateral damage. She was trying to get Alfred to become _Matthew’s_ valet, but won’t be happy to see Bates either. I missed the step where O’Brien and Thomas went from being Allies in Evil, to being enemies. When/why did O’Brien flip? ---
**Author:** ![alphaboi867](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alphaboi867/32/3898_2.png) [@alphaboi867](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/alphaboi867)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2013, 12:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/downton-abbey-s3-spoiler-free-until-broadcast-in-the-u-s/645791/648 "2013-02-06T00:18:53Z")
> [@jsc1953](#): > > I missed the step where O’Brien and Thomas went from being Allies in Evil, to being enemies. When/why did O’Brien flip? He tricked Alfred into ruining Matthew’s coat, which led to Mosley being appointed valet instead of Alfred. ---
**Author:** ![LavenderBlue](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/e95f7d/32.png) [@LavenderBlue](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LavenderBlue)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2013, 3:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/downton-abbey-s3-spoiler-free-until-broadcast-in-the-u-s/645791/649 "2013-02-06T15:06:11Z")
> [@Sampiro](#): > > Two seasons later I’m still wondering how > slipping in a bathroom = automatic miscarriage. Fellowes certainly likes his fictional cliques. But sometimes they work. Sybil’s dying in childbirth was very moving. The problem is that the show gets so clunky sometimes unless he’s careful. _Call the Midwife_ deals with class issues far more deftly. Subtlety is not his strong point. ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2013, 4:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/downton-abbey-s3-spoiler-free-until-broadcast-in-the-u-s/645791/650 "2013-02-06T16:18:57Z")
I avoided this thread until now. We went to a Super Bowl party, and they wanted to watch the Super Bowl instead of Downton Abbey. (peasants.) > [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](#): > > I enoyed this episode very much, even though the Bates imprisonment seems to be getting wrapped up waaaaay too quickly given how long it’s dragged on. Yes, and with way too many loose ends, as **Hentor** mentions. I was expecting some kind of courtroom scene, or at least Bates and his lawyer confronting the lying witness and forcing her confession. And I still don’t see why the corrupt guard went to all the trouble of framing Bates. Okay, he wants Bates to smuggle drugs and/or hates him because Bates is privileged. That doesn’t seem like enough motivation for so elaborate a conspiracy, at least to me. > [@](#): > > I think less of the doctor now that he’s done the Dowager Countess’s bidding in downplaying Sybil’s chances of surviving with a ceasarian. But the acting in that scene was wonderful, especially by the doctor character. He tries so hard to walk the fine line between misrepresenting his opinions, and saying what Violet wants him to say. And then there is that short outburst, when he starts to vent the resentment at being dismissed and put down by Sir Dr. Asshole and Lord Robert - and then immediately recalls that he is there to reassure the Granthams that Sybil would have died anyway, to heal the rift between them. And gets control of himself again. I love Maggie Smith. I **love** Maggie Smith. > [@](#): > > Yeah, the other guards were certainly _conveniently_ distracted at that point. No kidding. > [@](#): > > Predictions: Daisy has a May-December marriage with her father-in-law; Tom gets his daughter baptized Catholic, but leaves her to be raised by Matthew and Mary. I am hoping you are right on the first. But my speculation is that Robert turns Tom in to the authorities in some way, has him sent off to prison, and then has baby Sybil christened Anglican. And O’Brien is the perfect bitch. Telling Thomas that James has a crush on him - deliciously evil. Now Thomas is going to redouble his advances, James will fight back, Thomas will rape him, and then everyone will try to cover it up so Lord Grantham doesn’t hear about it. Bates will tell, though. Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2013, 4:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/downton-abbey-s3-spoiler-free-until-broadcast-in-the-u-s/645791/651 "2013-02-06T16:24:02Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > I That doesn’t seem like enough motivation for so elaborate a conspiracy, at least to me. The conspiracy is so elaborate as Julian wants to make sure no character is ever happy for more than half an episode. This gets tiresome after a while. ---
**Author:** ![Sampiro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/2acd7d/32.png) [@Sampiro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sampiro)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2013, 5:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/downton-abbey-s3-spoiler-free-until-broadcast-in-the-u-s/645791/652 "2013-02-06T17:45:06Z")
> [@LavenderBlue](#): > > Fellowes certainly likes his fictional cliques. But sometimes they work. Sybil’s dying in childbirth was very moving. The problem is that the show gets so clunky sometimes unless he’s careful. _Call the Midwife_ deals with class issues far more deftly. Subtlety is not his strong point. Yeah. Pretty much a “Message for you sir… Lord Grantham’s anti-Catholicism announces it will be visiting in a plotline very soon” telegraph once Robert Catholic bashed with the Archbishop. So did manor families _really_ dress in white tie and tails and entertain every night for dinner or is the show just depicting those nights? Because surely even the queen sometimes just puts on a bathrobe and takes a tuna sandwich and a Coke into the living room. ---
**Author:** ![StGermain](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/stgermain/32/2868_2.png) [@StGermain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/StGermain)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2013, 5:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/downton-abbey-s3-spoiler-free-until-broadcast-in-the-u-s/645791/653 "2013-02-06T17:45:23Z")
I’m unconvinced that Bates won’t get shived in his last day in prison. That scene with Mary holding the baby and Matthew standing behind her all family-portrait-like seems to be foreshadowing something, whether a baby for Mary, or _Sybil’s_ baby for Mary. StG ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2013, 5:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/downton-abbey-s3-spoiler-free-until-broadcast-in-the-u-s/645791/654 "2013-02-06T17:53:02Z")
[QUOTE=DrDeth] The conspiracy is so elaborate as Julian wants to make sure no character is ever happy for more than half an episode. This gets tiresome after a while. [/QUOTE] I don’t necessarily disagree with you, but I wish there could be more to it than that. I get the feeling that the Bates subplot was supposed to be a major part of the show, but Fellowes ran out of ideas or time or interest, and just decided to drop it. I like the show, but I don’t like that kind of build up without a pay off. Do soap operas often do this kind of thing? Maybe I am just not used to the conventions. I could probably handle it if, next season, baby Sybil shows up as a teen ager. Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2013, 6:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/downton-abbey-s3-spoiler-free-until-broadcast-in-the-u-s/645791/655 "2013-02-06T18:10:55Z")
> [@LavenderBlue](#): > > I can’t stand Robert. He’s a smug, arrogant, pompous, incompetent little man who has been thrust into a position of leadership he is not qualified for solely by virtue of his birth. He’s rude to both Matthew and Tom, going so far as to treat Tom like hired help and arguing with the guy over his religion and even choice of name for his daughter. He’s mean to Edith by not letting her write. He treats Cora with great contempt. He had the nerve to lecture Ethel about her behavior but he had an affair. > > I’m glad people like him have less power now. Look, we got it. You think “Call the Midwife” (which you are the only fan of, I have never even heard of this show) is super-duper fantastic and you hate the Earl. :rolleyes: OK? ---
**Author:** ![kath94](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/67e7ee/32.png) [@kath94](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kath94)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2013, 6:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/downton-abbey-s3-spoiler-free-until-broadcast-in-the-u-s/645791/656 "2013-02-06T18:13:41Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > Look, we got it. You think “Call the Midwife” (which you are the only fan of, I have never even heard of this show) is super-duper fantastic and you hate the Earl. :rolleyes: > > OK? Hi. I’m kath. And I’m a fan of “Call the Midwife.” Excellent drama. The second season is just now starting in the UK. ---
**Author:** ![Bridget\_Burke](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7cd45c/32.png) [@Bridget\_Burke](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bridget_Burke)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2013, 6:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/downton-abbey-s3-spoiler-free-until-broadcast-in-the-u-s/645791/657 "2013-02-06T18:19:55Z")
> [@Sampiro](#): > > Yeah. Pretty much a “Message for you sir… Lord Grantham’s anti-Catholicism announces it will be visiting in a plotline very soon” telegraph once Robert Catholic bashed with the Archbishop. > > So did manor families _really_ dress in white tie and tails and entertain every night for dinner or is the show just depicting those nights? Because surely even the queen sometimes just puts on a bathrobe and takes a tuna sandwich and a Coke into the living room. Yup, the show went two whole seasons without a mention of religion; we should at least have met the vicar. The religion thing could have been one of Robert’s objections against Branson, before they married. And the staff should have contained more than one Irish Catholic. O’Brien never dropped a hint about her background but her nephew Alfred had some choice anti-Catholic remarks; are they Church of Ireland or Presbyterian? (Which would be a whole other can of worms.) Yes, they did dress every night for dinner. [This article](http://www.blacktieguide.com/History/06-Edwardian.htm) says that, after the war, black tie gradually became more popular than white tie. Ford Madox Ford, who enjoyed some upper-class habits even while living the Bohemian back-to-the-land style, said wearing evening dress reduced wear on one’s suits. There were different rules for the tropics. In Scotland, some would wear a kilt. ---
**Author:** ![LavenderBlue](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/e95f7d/32.png) [@LavenderBlue](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LavenderBlue)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2013, 6:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/downton-abbey-s3-spoiler-free-until-broadcast-in-the-u-s/645791/658 "2013-02-06T18:28:46Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > Look, we got it. You think “Call the Midwife” (which you are the only fan of, I have never even heard of this show) is super-duper fantastic and you hate the Earl. :rolleyes: > > OK? Glad we cleared that up. 😃 I liked Downton Abbey very much. The sbow is fun. Nine to ten on Sundays in my house are known as do not disturb LavenderBlue as she glues her eyes to the screen. But Fellowes’s clumsy attempt to defend the class system he loves so much is laughably pathetic. The Earl’s a jerk and I reserve the right to say so in a thread devoted to the show. Even the simpering Cora has more integrity than he does. I’m sorry you’ve never heard of Cal_l the Midwife_. It was widely advertised on PBS and has gotten press even here. The show is fabulous. You’d probably like it. ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2013, 6:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/downton-abbey-s3-spoiler-free-until-broadcast-in-the-u-s/645791/659 "2013-02-06T18:29:14Z")
> [@Sampiro](#): > > So did manor families _really_ dress in white tie and tails and entertain every night for dinner or is the show just depicting those nights? Because surely even the queen sometimes just puts on a bathrobe and takes a tuna sandwich and a Coke into the living room. Whether or not there was any entertaining going on, dinner with the family was a formal occasion and you dressed for it. If you wanted to just have sandwiches, you had them sent up to your bedroom where you had them in private. There might of course be individuals who didn’t dress for dinner, but someone would let you know “Oh, you’re going to stay with Lord X. You, know he’s a bit eccentric and doesn’t dress for dinner, so you’ll look a fool if you’re the only one in a fish-and-soup.” (You followed the lead of the head of the household.) ---
**Author:** ![Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/8edcca/32.png) [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hentor_the_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2013, 6:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/downton-abbey-s3-spoiler-free-until-broadcast-in-the-u-s/645791/660 "2013-02-06T18:37:19Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > And I still don’t see why the corrupt guard went to all the trouble of framing Bates. Okay, he wants Bates to smuggle drugs and/or hates him because Bates is privileged. That doesn’t seem like enough motivation for so elaborate a conspiracy, at least to me. I agree with this. And if the issue was that Bates witnessed some smuggling of contraband, he gave no indication that he was going to do anything to interfere. Seems like the guard could have just manipulated things to get him moved to a different cell if that were the issue. > [@](#): > > But the acting in that scene was wonderful, especially by the doctor character. He tries so hard to walk the fine line between misrepresenting his opinions, and saying what Violet wants him to say. And then there is that short outburst, when he starts to vent the resentment at being dismissed and put down by Sir Dr. Asshole and Lord Robert - and then immediately recalls that he is there to reassure the Granthams that Sybil would have died anyway, to heal the rift between them. And gets control of himself again. This was precisely my read on the situation. He was… okay with giving a little speech, but when Robert pressed him to go beyond what he was comfortable with, it was a real challenge to him. > [@](#): > > I love Maggie Smith. I **love** Maggie Smith. Well, I _like_ her, but I wouldn’t go that far. 🙂 My favorite line of the episode was her observing that it would be a shame to let a good pudding go to waste. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/downton-abbey-s3-spoiler-free-until-broadcast-in-the-u-s/645791.md?page=32) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/downton-abbey-s3-spoiler-free-until-broadcast-in-the-u-s/645791.md?page=34)