# Downton Abbey S3 - spoiler-free until broadcast in the U.S. **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [January 2, 2013, 1:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/downton-abbey-s3-spoiler-free-until-broadcast-in-the-u-s/645791 "2013-01-02T01:45:23Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 47
**Author:** ![AuntiePam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/f19dbf/32.png) [@AuntiePam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AuntiePam)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2013, 2:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/downton-abbey-s3-spoiler-free-until-broadcast-in-the-u-s/645791/921 "2013-02-19T02:01:36Z")
> [@Acsenray](#): > > Matthew doesn’t have a “position.” He is the heir presumptive to Robert and a part owner of the estate. That’s it. Once Matthew gave up his law practice, he became a gentleman, and the primary characteristic of a gentleman is he doesn’t hold a job. I get that. Nevertheless, Matthew was doing more around the estate than just being the heir presumptive – unless I misinterpreted the conversations he and Tom and Robert were having. Matthew had specific plans and ideas, and Tom helped put them into practice. Matthew was doing stuff – working. Maybe most of it was on the financial or legal end, but he was helping. That’s where I see the possibility for a character to replace Matthew. Tom has practical experience with farming and managing stock, but he doesn’t have Matthew’s knowledge of the other aspects. ---
**Author:** ![Toucanna](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/3bc359/32.png) [@Toucanna](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Toucanna)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2013, 2:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/downton-abbey-s3-spoiler-free-until-broadcast-in-the-u-s/645791/922 "2013-02-19T02:05:48Z")
[QUOTE=AussieDog] In one earlier episode Robert mentions Charels Ponzi and his fantastic returns. With Matthew gone I fear that Robert may jump on that and squander more of their fortune. [/QUOTE] A little more than a year passed between Robert mentioning Charles Ponzi and the events shown in the final PBS (UK: Christmas, 2012) episode. By then, Ponzi’s scheme had been shown to be a fraud. ---
**Author:** ![Rhiannon8404](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rhiannon8404/32/17929_2.png) [@Rhiannon8404](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rhiannon8404)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2013, 2:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/downton-abbey-s3-spoiler-free-until-broadcast-in-the-u-s/645791/923 "2013-02-19T02:15:14Z")
I have a staffing question. Why doesn’t Edith have a lady’s maid? Is it something you only get when you’re married? Like getting to eat breakfast in bed? ---
**Author:** ![IvoryTowerDenizen](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ivorytowerdenizen/32/17937_2.png) [@IvoryTowerDenizen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/IvoryTowerDenizen)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2013, 2:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/downton-abbey-s3-spoiler-free-until-broadcast-in-the-u-s/645791/924 "2013-02-19T02:17:04Z")
> [@Rhiannon8404](#): > > I have a staffing question. Why doesn’t Edith have a lady’s maid? Is it something you only get when you’re married? Like getting to eat breakfast in bed? She does have one. She was complaining about her in the previous episode. ---
**Author:** ![kath94](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/67e7ee/32.png) [@kath94](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kath94)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2013, 2:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/downton-abbey-s3-spoiler-free-until-broadcast-in-the-u-s/645791/925 "2013-02-19T02:25:34Z")
Okay, I have another worthless observation. In Scotland, when Edith’s editor shows up, I noticed that everyone was dressed to the nines for dinner. White tie & tails for the men; beaded dresses and tiaras for the women. And then there’s Edith. She looked like she was wearing a beach cover-up made of terry cloth, with a jazz-era (Yes, I know it’s the jazz era, but still…) bandana around her head. She looked awfully casual next to the rest of her family. ---
**Author:** ![kath94](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/67e7ee/32.png) [@kath94](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kath94)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2013, 2:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/downton-abbey-s3-spoiler-free-until-broadcast-in-the-u-s/645791/926 "2013-02-19T02:27:14Z")
Here’s my preferred scenario for Season 4: Robert dies of stupidity & the family lawyer has to find another heir. They look far & wide and come up with a very distant cousin who works as a magazine editor in London. He has a crazy wife and a mistress named Edith. Edith finally gets her “Happily Ever After” and shows up her family. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![USCDiver](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/uscdiver/32/354_2.png) [@USCDiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/USCDiver)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2013, 2:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/downton-abbey-s3-spoiler-free-until-broadcast-in-the-u-s/645791/927 "2013-02-19T02:29:02Z")
They should have just changed Rose’s name to Cousin Pam and been done with it. I mean for crying out loud, did Julian Fellowes even watch the Cosby Show? ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2013, 2:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/downton-abbey-s3-spoiler-free-until-broadcast-in-the-u-s/645791/928 "2013-02-19T02:32:56Z")
> [@AuntiePam](#): > > I get that. Then why did you ask what his position was? > [@](#): > > Nevertheless, Matthew was doing more around the estate than just being the heir presumptive – unless I misinterpreted the conversations he and Tom and Robert were having. Matthew had specific plans and ideas, and Tom helped put them into practice. Matthew was doing stuff – working. Maybe most of it was on the financial or legal end, but he was helping. Yeah, he was “helping.” That’s not a “position.” He was acting within his role of family member and part owner. That’s why Tom and Matthew had to proceed with a certain degree of tact, because Matthew really has no official position from which he can make decisions without getting Robert to go along, even if only reluctantly. Essentially, Matthew was taking upon himself duties and authority that belong to Robert. ---
**Author:** ![SpoilerVirgin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/4491bb/32.png) [@SpoilerVirgin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SpoilerVirgin)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2013, 2:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/downton-abbey-s3-spoiler-free-until-broadcast-in-the-u-s/645791/929 "2013-02-19T02:39:29Z")
> [@kath94](#): > > Here’s my preferred scenario for Season 4: > > Robert dies of stupidity & the family lawyer has to find another heir. They look far & wide and come up with a very distant cousin who works as a magazine editor in London. He has a crazy wife and a mistress named Edith. > > Edith finally gets her “Happily Ever After” and shows up her family. 🙂 You don’t have to search that far and wide for another heir. The obvious scenario is that somehow (and in this show, “somehow” can be very loosely interpreted) proof is discovered that the bandaged man who claimed to be Patrick is in fact Patrick, the rightful heir in line before Matthew or Matthew’s son. He marries Edith, and she becomes mistress of Downton, banishing Mary to one of the cottages. It works for me. In fact, I keep wondering if that is what Fellowes has had in mind all along. ---
**Author:** ![alphaboi867](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alphaboi867/32/3898_2.png) [@alphaboi867](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/alphaboi867)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2013, 2:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/downton-abbey-s3-spoiler-free-until-broadcast-in-the-u-s/645791/930 "2013-02-19T02:41:26Z")
> [@Acsenray](#): > > …Essentially, Matthew was taking upon himself duties and authority that belong to Robert. That _belonged_ to Robert; remember it was Robert who insisted on making Matthew a co-owner (Matthew was prepared to just give him the money). Thank’s to Robert he & Matthew shared authority that was previously his alone. ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2013, 2:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/downton-abbey-s3-spoiler-free-until-broadcast-in-the-u-s/645791/931 "2013-02-19T02:45:46Z")
> [@alphaboi867](#): > > That _belonged_ to Robert; remember it was Robert who insisted on making Matthew a co-owner (Matthew was prepared to just give him the money). Thank’s to Robert he & Matthew shared authority that was previously his alone. I think you’ll find that nothing I say is contradictory. Matthew has no _position_ other than as a member of the family and part owner of the property. ---
**Author:** ![MLS](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/919ad9/32.png) [@MLS](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MLS)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2013, 2:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/downton-abbey-s3-spoiler-free-until-broadcast-in-the-u-s/645791/932 "2013-02-19T02:49:50Z")
> [@Acsenray](#): > > Exactly. There can be no women in the line of inheritance. > > James Crawley was Robert’s first cousin, so had to be the son of Robert’s father’s younger brother. James’s son, Patrick Crawley, was Mary’s second cousin. > > Matthew’s father was Robert’s second cousin (Robert’s father’s father’s younger brother’s son’s son), so Matthew and Mary were third cousins. > > Matthew and Mary’s son and Tom and Sybil’s daughter are fourth cousins. Mary’s son and Sybil’s daughter are also first cousins, since their mothers are sisters. ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2013, 2:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/downton-abbey-s3-spoiler-free-until-broadcast-in-the-u-s/645791/933 "2013-02-19T02:50:57Z")
> [@MLS](#): > > Mary’s son and Sybil’s daughter are also first cousins, since their mothers are sisters. True. First and fourth cousins. ---
**Author:** ![hajario](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hajario/32/171_2.png) [@hajario](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hajario)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2013, 3:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/downton-abbey-s3-spoiler-free-until-broadcast-in-the-u-s/645791/934 "2013-02-19T03:01:54Z")
> [@SpoilerVirgin](#): > > You don’t have to search that far and wide for another heir. The obvious scenario is that somehow (and in this show, “somehow” can be very loosely interpreted) proof is discovered that the bandaged man who claimed to be Patrick is in fact Patrick, the rightful heir in line before Matthew or Matthew’s son. He marries Edith, and she becomes mistress of Downton, banishing Mary to one of the cottages. It works for me. In fact, I keep wondering if that is what Fellowes has had in mind all along. Their son would be Earl but Matthew owned Downton so his kid gets it. ---
**Author:** ![Fretful\_Porpentine](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fretful_porpentine/32/2873_2.png) [@Fretful\_Porpentine](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fretful_Porpentine)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2013, 3:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/downton-abbey-s3-spoiler-free-until-broadcast-in-the-u-s/645791/935 "2013-02-19T03:05:06Z")
> [@SpoilerVirgin](#): > > You don’t have to search that far and wide for another heir. The obvious scenario is that somehow (and in this show, “somehow” can be very loosely interpreted) proof is discovered that the bandaged man who claimed to be Patrick is in fact Patrick, the rightful heir in line before Matthew or Matthew’s son. He marries Edith, and she becomes mistress of Downton, banishing Mary to one of the cottages. It works for me. In fact, I keep wondering if that is what Fellowes has had in mind all along. I wouldn’t put it past him to DO it, but I don’t think that can possibly be what he had in mind all along; Fake Patrick was engaging in some pretty blatant cold reading in that episode. (“I remember a governess everyone hated” when virtually every family would have had a governess everyone hated, and then, when Mary supplies an obviously German name, he does his best bad impression of a German accent.) I think I may be the only person in the world who didn’t hate that plotline, but I thought it was perfectly believable that a family in the Crawleys’ position would attract a con artist or two, and Fake Patrick’s methods and reactions seemed quite plausible for a con artist. I reserve the right to _start_ hating it if he turns out to be Real Patrick, though. ---
**Author:** ![SpoilerVirgin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/4491bb/32.png) [@SpoilerVirgin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SpoilerVirgin)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2013, 3:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/downton-abbey-s3-spoiler-free-until-broadcast-in-the-u-s/645791/936 "2013-02-19T03:39:09Z")
> [@hajario](#): > > Their son would be Earl but Matthew owned Downton so his kid gets it. Matthew had an investment in Downton; I don’t think he owned it outright. Sets up a nice storyline, though, if Mary and Edith each inherit a piece of Downton and have to work together to run it, or run it into the ground by fighting. > [@Fretful\_Porpentine](#): > > I wouldn’t put it past him to DO it, but I don’t think that can possibly be what he had in mind all along; Fake Patrick was engaging in some pretty blatant cold reading in that episode. (“I remember a governess everyone hated” when virtually every family would have had a governess everyone hated, and then, when Mary supplies an obviously German name, he does his best bad impression of a German accent.) > > I think I may be the only person in the world who didn’t hate that plotline, but I thought it was perfectly believable that a family in the Crawleys’ position would attract a con artist or two, and Fake Patrick’s methods and reactions seemed quite plausible for a con artist. I reserve the right to _start_ hating it if he turns out to be Real Patrick, though. Fake Patrick was probably based on a story that someone linked in [Wikipedia](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tichborne_case) about a guy who did claim to be an heir although he was almost certainly fake. I like the idea that Fellowes deliberately put in all the cold reading stuff to throw everyone off. Actually I just like the idea of Edith winning over Mary in the end. She deserves the “handsome husband and position all rolled up in one neat package.” ---
**Author:** ![drpepper](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/8baadc/32.png) [@drpepper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/drpepper)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2013, 3:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/downton-abbey-s3-spoiler-free-until-broadcast-in-the-u-s/645791/937 "2013-02-19T03:41:09Z")
I can’t help but observe for the benefit of all you Fellowes-and-his-breathtakingly-short-story-arcs haters: No less than 3 (THREE!) love connections were _begun AND ended_ in this ep, not even including Edith’s saga (which, admittedly, is spanning more than one ep, shockingly). (1) Mrs. Patmore and the shopkeeper; (2) maid and Branson; (3) Isobel and Dr. Clarkson. Started, finished, pft, done. We’ll hear no more about them. ---
**Author:** ![Toucanna](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/3bc359/32.png) [@Toucanna](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Toucanna)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2013, 3:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/downton-abbey-s3-spoiler-free-until-broadcast-in-the-u-s/645791/938 "2013-02-19T03:47:19Z")
[QUOTE=SpoilerVirgin] {snip} …proof is discovered that the bandaged man who claimed to be Patrick is in fact Patrick, the rightful heir in line before Matthew or Matthew’s son. He marries Edith, and she becomes mistress of Downton, banishing Mary to one of the cottages. It works for me. In fact, I keep wondering if that is what Fellowes has had in mind all along. [/QUOTE] That’s exactly what I thought about the other day! 😃 BB Crawley’s position as heir presumptive is shaky. He is the 3rd cousin 2x removed to the current Earl (who is either the sixth or seventh Earl, depending on which source you consult). There may well be another 3C2R, born earlier than BB Crawley, who would thus have a superior claim to the title and estate. Although, as Matthew Crawley’s heir, he does own part of the Downton estate. That would create some interesting conflict between Mary (who, as his mother, would manage his affairs until he reached the age of majority) and whichever new heir presumptive showed up. But, 1925 is almost upon the Crawleys of Downton, and changes to the laws of inheritance are coming. * * * Be that as it may, it was not made definite that Matthew died in the crash. If Fellowes is smart, he will stick Matthew in a coma. This will allow Dan Stevens to come back to the show as a regular if he wants to. Or, he could make the occasional cameo appearance, as his schedule permits. “I’m not dead yet!” * * * Lady Edith Crawley is Robert Crawley’s (the Earl of Grantham, “Lord Grantham”) second daughter. Ethel Parks is the housemaid who had an affair with Maj. Bryant and gave birth to his illegitimate son, Charlie. She ended up working as a prostitute in order to support herself and her son. Isobel Crawley hired her as a housekeeper/cook. Edna Braithwaite is a housemaid. She was hired during Series 3. She _may_ have been the “new maid” Edith Crawley complained about. * * * I do not believe that Sarah O’Brien left the soap on the bathroom floor with the intention of causing Cora Crawley (the Countess of Grantham, “Lady Grantham”) such a bad fall that she would miscarry. I think O’Brien was just looking for Cora to slip and fall on her butt, thus looking like a fool. It would be something O’Brien could snicker about to herself (and possibly to Thomas Barrow) to amuse herself when Cora was being especially demanding. I don’t remember seeing O’Brien tell Barrow about the soap. I think O’Brien probably told Barrow about the soap when Cora had the Spanish flu. The incident and its tragic outcome may have been weighing on her conscience when she thought Cora was about to die. I find it believable that O’Brien would have consulted Barrow about whether she should confess to Cora and ask for Cora’s forgiveness. But, I don’t know this for sure. It’s just my attempt at fanwanking. * * * I’m not a professional writer. However, I did take freshman composition class in college. In that class, we were taught never to sacrifice character for a joke, a gag, or a plot point. Fellowes has been, especially in the third series, sacrificing characters–especially, Lord Grantham’s–for plot twists, jokes, stunts, cliffhangers, blah blah blah. I’m not sure I want to watch the fourth series if he continues to do this. ---
**Author:** ![Dewey\_Finn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dewey_finn/32/4222_2.png) [@Dewey\_Finn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dewey_Finn)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2013, 4:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/downton-abbey-s3-spoiler-free-until-broadcast-in-the-u-s/645791/939 "2013-02-19T04:03:53Z")
I wish that the fourth series is broadcast in the US immediately after the UK broadcast. (And actually, I wish they would do the same thing for the next series of Sherlock.) This is what they do on BBC America for Graham Norton’s chat show and Top Gear. (For example, tonight’s Top Gear episode first aired on 10 February in the UK.) ---
**Author:** ![AuntiePam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/f19dbf/32.png) [@AuntiePam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AuntiePam)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2013, 4:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/downton-abbey-s3-spoiler-free-until-broadcast-in-the-u-s/645791/940 "2013-02-19T04:09:32Z")
> [@Acsenray](#): > > I think you’ll find that nothing I say is contradictory. Matthew has no _position_ other than as a member of the family and part owner of the property. We’re getting bogged down in semantics here. I didn’t mean “position” as in job title, or place in the family, or status as heir. I meant it as fulfilling a specific function in management of the estate – more than just part-owner and heir. Even if all he was doing was advising, Tom and Robert needed and used his advice. His departure leaves a knowledge gap that needs to be filled. I guess that’s what I mean by “position”. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/downton-abbey-s3-spoiler-free-until-broadcast-in-the-u-s/645791.md?page=46) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/downton-abbey-s3-spoiler-free-until-broadcast-in-the-u-s/645791.md?page=48)