# Downton Abbey S3 - spoiler-free until broadcast in the U.S. **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [January 2, 2013, 1:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/downton-abbey-s3-spoiler-free-until-broadcast-in-the-u-s/645791 "2013-01-02T01:45:23Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 48
**Author:** ![Toucanna](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/3bc359/32.png) [@Toucanna](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Toucanna)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2013, 4:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/downton-abbey-s3-spoiler-free-until-broadcast-in-the-u-s/645791/941 "2013-02-19T04:19:38Z")
Additional musings… Since Matthew died before the current Earl, he never held the title, “Earl of Grantham”. Thus, Mary will never hold the title, “Countess of Grantham”. If someone is found who has a better claim than BBC to the title, BBC could sell his interest in the estate to the new heir presumptive. Although, Mary would probably fight this, as it would mean that, once Robert died, Mary, Edith, BBC, Cora, Tom Branson and Syblette would have to vacate Downton Abbey. And Isobel would probably be turned out of Crawley house. But I suppose Violet would still retain the right to live in the Dower House. If the new earl (or, as heir presumptive) bought out BBC’s share, would Cora et al still be able to move into that teeny tiny country house with “only” 8 servants? Or would the new Earl have the right to say, “Nuh uh! It’s all mine and y’all gotta find some place else”? And then Cora et al move in with her mom. ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2013, 4:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/downton-abbey-s3-spoiler-free-until-broadcast-in-the-u-s/645791/942 "2013-02-19T04:28:15Z")
> [@Toucanna](#): > > BB Crawley’s position as heir presumptive is shaky. He is the 3rd cousin 2x removed to the current Earl (who is either the sixth or seventh Earl, depending on which source you consult). There may well be another 3C2R, born earlier than BB Crawley, who would thus have a superior claim to the title and estate. I think you overstate the case. First of all, it was very common for male lines to eventually fail, and given the problems that Robert has been having in securing his legacy, I’m pretty sure, they would be well aware of every possible heir at this point. And it’s not likely at all that another third cousin, twice removed would displace Matthew and Mary’s son. In fact, I think it’s impossible. It doesn’t matter when the kid is born—age is not a factor—that’s why any son of Robert’s could displace an heir presumptive. The principle is exclusive male primogeniture, and if Matthew is first in line, then his son is right behind him. There’s pretty much no way for anyone else to get between them. ---
**Author:** ![alphaboi867](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alphaboi867/32/3898_2.png) [@alphaboi867](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/alphaboi867)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2013, 4:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/downton-abbey-s3-spoiler-free-until-broadcast-in-the-u-s/645791/943 "2013-02-19T04:29:57Z")
Master Crawley can’t do anything with the estate until he cames of age, _in 1942_. Violet would damn near 100 by then, and Cora would have rights to the Dower House as soon as she died. And like I pointed out they aren’t bound by the entail anymore so the estate doesn’t automatically come with the title. ---
**Author:** ![hajario](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hajario/32/171_2.png) [@hajario](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hajario)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2013, 4:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/downton-abbey-s3-spoiler-free-until-broadcast-in-the-u-s/645791/944 "2013-02-19T04:31:42Z")
If there was someone with a better claim, they would have found them back when they found Matthew. Short of the new baby dying or Robert having a son, the new baby will be the Earl. ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2013, 4:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/downton-abbey-s3-spoiler-free-until-broadcast-in-the-u-s/645791/945 "2013-02-19T04:31:37Z")
> [@alphaboi867](#): > > And like I pointed out they aren’t bound by the entail anymore When did that happen? The whole point of an entail is that it can’t be gotten rid of. ---
**Author:** ![Eyebrows\_0f\_Doom](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eyebrows_0f_doom/32/3119_2.png) [@Eyebrows\_0f\_Doom](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eyebrows_0f_Doom)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2013, 4:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/downton-abbey-s3-spoiler-free-until-broadcast-in-the-u-s/645791/946 "2013-02-19T04:43:00Z")
> [@Sampiro](#): > > Unless he goes Norman Bates. > > Hmm. If Anna and Bates have a son… Well they \*did \*talk about opening a small hotel once they were married… ---
**Author:** ![SpoilerVirgin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/4491bb/32.png) [@SpoilerVirgin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SpoilerVirgin)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2013, 4:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/downton-abbey-s3-spoiler-free-until-broadcast-in-the-u-s/645791/947 "2013-02-19T04:52:54Z")
> [@drpepper](#): > > I can’t help but observe for the benefit of all you Fellowes-and-his-breathtakingly-short-story-arcs haters: > > No less than 3 (THREE!) love connections were _begun AND ended_ in this ep, not even including Edith’s saga (which, admittedly, is spanning more than one ep, shockingly). (1) Mrs. Patmore and the shopkeeper; (2) maid and Branson; (3) Isobel and Dr. Clarkson. Started, finished, pft, done. We’ll hear no more about them. Not to excuse Fellowes, but remember that this episode was the Christmas Special, which in the UK is a standalone episode, shown during the holiday season, months after the regular season has finished airing. So it’s not like he dropped in three short-term stories in the middle of the season; it was a separate episode that obviously had continuing storylines, but also had storylines that could be watched on their own (remember that Mary showed up pregnant and had the baby all in this one episode). Incidentally, I understand that this episode was shown on Christmas Day in the UK. The ending certainly made a lovely Christmas treat. ---
**Author:** ![alphaboi867](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alphaboi867/32/3898_2.png) [@alphaboi867](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/alphaboi867)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2013, 4:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/downton-abbey-s3-spoiler-free-until-broadcast-in-the-u-s/645791/948 "2013-02-19T04:55:33Z")
> [@Acsenray](#): > > When did that happen? The whole point of an entail is that it can’t be gotten rid of. That all changed when Robert lost Cora’s fortune, and the estate was in trouble. Robert was preparing to sell Downton, something that would’ve been impossible if the entail was still in effect. Technically he did sell Matthew a 50% share in the estate. Now that Matthew’s dead his share goes to his heirs (Mary & their son) according to whatever formula he devised in his will. In any event binding entails like the Crawleys had will be abolished in 4 yrs. ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2013, 5:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/downton-abbey-s3-spoiler-free-until-broadcast-in-the-u-s/645791/949 "2013-02-19T05:07:03Z")
> [@alphaboi867](#): > > That all changed when Robert lost Cora’s fortune, and the estate was in trouble. Robert was preparing to sell Downton, something that would’ve been impossible if the entail was still in effect. You can’t assume this. The entire plot of season one centered on the fact that the entail was unbreakable. Unless something explicitly changed then we have to assume it still exists. And even if there is an entail restricting inheritance of the title and the estate, it cannot mean that if Robert went broke he would not be able to sell his property to raise money. There’s something else going on here. ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2013, 5:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/downton-abbey-s3-spoiler-free-until-broadcast-in-the-u-s/645791/950 "2013-02-19T05:08:50Z")
> [@SpoilerVirgin](#): > > Not to excuse Fellowes, but remember that this episode was the Christmas Special, which in the UK is a standalone episode, shown during the holiday season, months after the regular season has finished airing. So it’s not like he dropped in three short-term stories in the middle of the season; it was a separate episode that obviously had continuing storylines, but also had storylines that could be watched on their own (remember that Mary showed up pregnant and had the baby all in this one episode). This is something that makes me dislike the British tradition of Christmas specials. ---
**Author:** ![Bridget\_Burke](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7cd45c/32.png) [@Bridget\_Burke](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bridget_Burke)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2013, 5:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/downton-abbey-s3-spoiler-free-until-broadcast-in-the-u-s/645791/951 "2013-02-19T05:22:32Z")
> [@Toucanna](#): > > …Be that as it may, it was not made definite that Matthew died in the crash. If Fellowes is smart, he will stick Matthew in a coma. This will allow Dan Stevens to come back to the show as a regular if he wants to. Or, he could make the occasional cameo appearance, as his schedule permits. “I’m not dead yet!”… Fellowes was interviewed in the _New York Times_ recently. Matthew is dead, dead, dead. Series 4 will begin six months after his death, so we won’t see any funeral or the immediate reaction to his death… ---
**Author:** ![Rhiannon8404](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rhiannon8404/32/17929_2.png) [@Rhiannon8404](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rhiannon8404)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2013, 5:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/downton-abbey-s3-spoiler-free-until-broadcast-in-the-u-s/645791/952 "2013-02-19T05:30:04Z")
> [@Bridget\_Burke](#): > > Fellowes was interviewed in the _New York Times_ recently. Matthew is dead, dead, dead. Series 4 will begin six months after his death, so we won’t see any funeral or the immediate reaction to his death… I think that’s just as well. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2013, 5:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/downton-abbey-s3-spoiler-free-until-broadcast-in-the-u-s/645791/953 "2013-02-19T05:39:15Z")
> [@Acsenray](#): > > I think you’ll find that nothing I say is contradictory. Matthew has no _position_ other than as a member of the family and part owner of the property. No, he has the _position_ of being dead under the wheels of the car. ---
**Author:** ![alphaboi867](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alphaboi867/32/3898_2.png) [@alphaboi867](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/alphaboi867)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2013, 5:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/downton-abbey-s3-spoiler-free-until-broadcast-in-the-u-s/645791/954 "2013-02-19T05:46:07Z")
> [@Bridget\_Burke](#): > > Fellowes was interviewed in the _New York Times_ recently. Matthew is dead, dead, dead. Series 4 will begin six months after his death, so we won’t see any funeral or the immediate reaction to his death… [Here’s](http://artsbeat.blogs.nytimes.com/2013/02/18/julian-fellowes-discusses-a-season-of-comings-and-goings-at-downton-abbey/) the article. I wonder if the delay is part of the contract PBS has with ITV, or if it’s just a scheduling decision on there part. If they aired simultaneously or if the delay was only a week or 2 alot fewer people (myself included :o) would resort to other means. ---
**Author:** ![Eyebrows\_0f\_Doom](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eyebrows_0f_doom/32/3119_2.png) [@Eyebrows\_0f\_Doom](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eyebrows_0f_Doom)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2013, 6:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/downton-abbey-s3-spoiler-free-until-broadcast-in-the-u-s/645791/955 "2013-02-19T06:12:00Z")
> [@alphaboi867](#): > > [Here’s](http://artsbeat.blogs.nytimes.com/2013/02/18/julian-fellowes-discusses-a-season-of-comings-and-goings-at-downton-abbey/) the article. I wonder if the delay is part of the contract PBS has with ITV, or if it’s just a scheduling decision on there part. If they aired simultaneously or if the delay was only a week or 2 alot fewer people (myself included :o) would resort to other means. There was a panel discussion PBS showed on YouTube when the third season first started where someone asked this, and what they said was that January-February is the best time, schedule wise, for them to air the show. They get their best ratings then as they’re not going up against the new TV shows that always start in the fall. They also need time to recut each episode to fit into the PBS time slot, as ITV shows the episodes with commercials. That’s also why some PBS episodes this year had \*additional \*scenes that were not shown in the UK, because they needed to fill in the extra time originally taken up by the commercials. So, don’t expect the schedule to be any different next year. The US will again be 4 months behind. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2013, 9:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/downton-abbey-s3-spoiler-free-until-broadcast-in-the-u-s/645791/956 "2013-02-19T09:38:29Z")
> [@Bridget\_Burke](#): > > Fellowes was interviewed in the _New York Times_ recently. Matthew is dead, dead, dead. Series 4 will begin six months after his death, so we won’t see any funeral or the immediate reaction to his death… aaaggggghhhh. I just watched the episode. Are you !#@%ing serious. ---
**Author:** ![Grrr](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/grrr/32/146_2.png) [@Grrr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Grrr)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2013, 11:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/downton-abbey-s3-spoiler-free-until-broadcast-in-the-u-s/645791/957 "2013-02-19T11:55:18Z")
**I’d like to suggest next year each episode has it’s own thread.** Please… ---
**Author:** ![ThelmaLou](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thelmalou/32/390_2.png) [@ThelmaLou](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ThelmaLou)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2013, 12:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/downton-abbey-s3-spoiler-free-until-broadcast-in-the-u-s/645791/958 "2013-02-19T12:52:07Z")
> [@Shakes](#): > > **I’d like to suggest next year each episode has it’s own thread.** > Please… I like it all in one thread because the discussion is not confined to just one episode-- it moves all over the place. Also **ITS** own thread, not IT’S own thread. “It’s” is a contraction of “it is.” Counterintuitive, but the possessive doesn’t take an apostrophe. ---
**Author:** ![Labdad](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/439d5e/32.png) [@Labdad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Labdad)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2013, 12:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/downton-abbey-s3-spoiler-free-until-broadcast-in-the-u-s/645791/959 "2013-02-19T12:59:56Z")
All this discussion about inheritance and entails is well and good, but it doesn’t answer the burning question: WHO WON THE CRICKET MATCH??? ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2013, 1:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/downton-abbey-s3-spoiler-free-until-broadcast-in-the-u-s/645791/960 "2013-02-19T13:09:30Z")
> [@Labdad](#): > > All this discussion about inheritance and entails is well and good, but it doesn’t answer the burning question: WHO WON THE CRICKET MATCH??? Well it had to be the house team right? All I remember is Molesley out in one bowl, or however you say it. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/downton-abbey-s3-spoiler-free-until-broadcast-in-the-u-s/645791.md?page=47) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/downton-abbey-s3-spoiler-free-until-broadcast-in-the-u-s/645791.md?page=49)