# Downton Abbey S3 - spoiler-free until broadcast in the U.S. **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [January 2, 2013, 1:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/downton-abbey-s3-spoiler-free-until-broadcast-in-the-u-s/645791 "2013-01-02T01:45:23Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 49
**Author:** ![Ellen\_Cherry](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ellen_cherry/32/3600_2.png) [@Ellen\_Cherry](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ellen_Cherry)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2013, 2:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/downton-abbey-s3-spoiler-free-until-broadcast-in-the-u-s/645791/961 "2013-02-19T14:01:40Z")
I went back and read the statement from Fellowes that WGBH (the presenting station) sent us on Friday to help us cope with viewer reaction following the “shocking plot twist” — > [@Julian Fellowes](#): > > “Dan Stevens decided not to renew his contract. Fans have enjoyed what has become a solid and loving marriage between Mary and Matthew. The producers decided that they could not simply be estranged or parted, resulting in Matthew’s tragic death at the end of the season finale.” ---
**Author:** ![Sampiro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/2acd7d/32.png) [@Sampiro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sampiro)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2013, 2:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/downton-abbey-s3-spoiler-free-until-broadcast-in-the-u-s/645791/962 "2013-02-19T14:14:40Z")
> [@Ellen\_Cherry](#): > > I went back and read the statement from Fellowes that WGBH (the presenting station) sent us on Friday to help us cope with viewer reaction following the “shocking plot twist” — So “Fans would have thought it too sad or contrived if he and Mary separated or left, so instead we killed him off the same hour his son was born, kind of like the fulfilment of a dark prophecy.” ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2013, 2:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/downton-abbey-s3-spoiler-free-until-broadcast-in-the-u-s/645791/963 "2013-02-19T14:19:02Z")
> [@Sampiro](#): > > So “Fans would have thought it too sad or contrived if he and Mary separated or left, so instead we killed him off the same hour his son was born, kind of like the fulfilment of a dark prophecy.” That’s so stupid. There are all kinds of plausible reasons for a happy couple to spend time apart without being estranged, parted, or separated. Matthew might simply away on business. After all, we are not seeing every minute of the lives of these people. ---
**Author:** ![gwendee](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/35a633/32.png) [@gwendee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gwendee)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2013, 2:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/downton-abbey-s3-spoiler-free-until-broadcast-in-the-u-s/645791/964 "2013-02-19T14:20:56Z")
Am I alone in thinking the role could simply have been recast? ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2013, 2:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/downton-abbey-s3-spoiler-free-until-broadcast-in-the-u-s/645791/965 "2013-02-19T14:22:13Z")
> [@alphaboi867](#): > > An heir presumptive can be displaced by the birth of someone with a stronger claim to the title; an heir apparent cannot. Prince Charles is his mother’s heir apparent because he’s her eldest son and even she were somehow able to have another child it could not displace him. By contrast she was only her father’s heiress presumptive since if her parents had a son he’d displace her. > [@Acsenray](#): > > If Robert had fathered a legitimate son at any time before his own death, then the son would displace Matthew as heir. That makes Matthew an heir presumptive, not an heir apparent. An heir apparent can’t be displaced by the birth of a new heir. Thanks for the information. Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![Sampiro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/2acd7d/32.png) [@Sampiro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sampiro)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2013, 2:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/downton-abbey-s3-spoiler-free-until-broadcast-in-the-u-s/645791/966 "2013-02-19T14:28:28Z")
Unfortunately, under the terms of Matthew’s will his estate passes to the next most tangentially connected person to the late Lavinia’s father, which is in fact Lavinia’s late mother’s former dry cleaner, thus in order to maintain Downton the family must make it into a Karl May themed dude ranch for German tourists who want a wild west experience but can only afford to come as far west as England. ---
**Author:** ![well\_he\_s\_back](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/3ab097/32.png) [@well\_he\_s\_back](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/well_he_s_back)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2013, 2:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/downton-abbey-s3-spoiler-free-until-broadcast-in-the-u-s/645791/967 "2013-02-19T14:56:14Z")
> **[Was the Shocking End to Downton Abbey a Veiled Threat to the Cast?](https://www.vulture.com/2013/02/was-downton-abbey-climactic-death-drama-or-spite.html?mid=agenda--20130218)** > > More spoilers! article of interest re character’s death ---
**Author:** ![StGermain](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/stgermain/32/2868_2.png) [@StGermain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/StGermain)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2013, 2:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/downton-abbey-s3-spoiler-free-until-broadcast-in-the-u-s/645791/968 "2013-02-19T14:57:40Z")
**Sampiro** - You’re really enjoying this, aren’t you? 😃 StG ---
**Author:** ![Sampiro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/2acd7d/32.png) [@Sampiro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sampiro)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2013, 3:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/downton-abbey-s3-spoiler-free-until-broadcast-in-the-u-s/645791/969 "2013-02-19T15:02:25Z")
I don’t think that Matthew’s death would have been such an eyeroller if Sybil hadn’t died. Now it just seems there’s a curse on mating with a Crawley: Sybil- dies instantly after successful reproduction Mary- had sex with two men, the first of whom died instantly without impregnating her and the second of whom died instantly after successful reproduction. (The second had attempted to mate before, but his wife died before they could reproduce.) Edith- cannot find a man to mate with, but- —The cousin she was in love with died of unnatural causes —Her battle hardened aged fiance publicly humiliated her and himself because something about him sensed danger in going through with the mating —Currently she’s circling a man whose first wife went mad after mating Somewhere the farmer she kissed probably grew breasts and then impaled himself. There’s a curse on the Crawley vaginas. And Grandma in America is totally pulling the strings. (She probably made her husband a megamillionaire through similar blood magick.) It would be interesting to learn what became of Violet’s husband. ---
**Author:** ![Ellen\_Cherry](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ellen_cherry/32/3600_2.png) [@Ellen\_Cherry](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ellen_Cherry)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2013, 3:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/downton-abbey-s3-spoiler-free-until-broadcast-in-the-u-s/645791/970 "2013-02-19T15:06:54Z")
Well, given all that, then Thomas is the only sensible bloke on the place. 😛 ---
**Author:** ![TruCelt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/trucelt/32/523_2.png) [@TruCelt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TruCelt)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2013, 3:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/downton-abbey-s3-spoiler-free-until-broadcast-in-the-u-s/645791/971 "2013-02-19T15:27:20Z")
> [@Eyebrows\_0f\_Doom](#): > > There was a panel discussion PBS showed on YouTube when the third season first started where someone asked this, and what they said was that January-February is the best time, schedule wise, for them to air the show. They get their best ratings then as they’re not going up against the new TV shows that always start in the fall. They also need time to recut each episode to fit into the PBS time slot, as ITV shows the episodes with commercials. That’s also why some PBS episodes this year had \*additional \*scenes that were not shown in the UK, because they needed to fill in the extra time originally taken up by the commercials. > > So, don’t expect the schedule to be any different next year. The US will again be 4 months behind. That’s all very logical, but I thought the definitive point was that it couldn’t run at the same time as “Upstairs, Downstairs.” I, for one, manage to confuse them occasionally even with the two-month lapse in between. (When somebody up hread said they hadn’t replaced Branson, I had to quickly delete a post “reminding” them of the good-looking boxing coach dude. :smack: ) For those confused about the entail and succession, just pretend that the honor has been awarded to the “Y” chromosome. The “X” can not carry it. Re: The change in law of 1925, would it allow Mary to inherit the estate, but not the title? Or both? I thought titles still go with the “Y”? ---
**Author:** ![IvoryTowerDenizen](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ivorytowerdenizen/32/17937_2.png) [@IvoryTowerDenizen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/IvoryTowerDenizen)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2013, 3:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/downton-abbey-s3-spoiler-free-until-broadcast-in-the-u-s/645791/972 "2013-02-19T15:32:46Z")
> [@Sampiro](#): > > I don’t think that Matthew’s death would have been such an eyeroller if Sybil hadn’t died. Now it just seems there’s a curse on mating with a Crawley: > > Sybil- dies instantly after successful reproduction > > Mary- had sex with two men, the first of whom died instantly without impregnating her and the second of whom died instantly after successful reproduction. (The second had attempted to mate before, but his wife died before they could reproduce.) > > Edith- cannot find a man to mate with, but- > —The cousin she was in love with died of unnatural causes > —Her battle hardened aged fiance publicly humiliated her and himself because something about him sensed danger in going through with the mating > —Currently she’s circling a man whose first wife went mad after mating > Somewhere the farmer she kissed probably grew breasts and then impaled himself. > > There’s a curse on the Crawley vaginas. And Grandma in America is totally pulling the strings. (She probably made her husband a megamillionaire through similar blood magick.) > > It would be interesting to learn what became of Violet’s husband. You’re killing me. Don’t stop. ---
**Author:** ![Bridget\_Burke](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7cd45c/32.png) [@Bridget\_Burke](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bridget_Burke)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2013, 3:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/downton-abbey-s3-spoiler-free-until-broadcast-in-the-u-s/645791/973 "2013-02-19T15:34:49Z")
Titles still go with the “Y”. Not in Scotland–which fact was mentioned in the last episode. And now the heir to the very throne will be the first child–not the first male, with females only taking the throne if no XY’s are produced… (Hmm… blood magic. Perhaps there’s a crossover with _Game of Thrones_. Actually, there probably is–in fanfiction. We thought Gwen went to a secretarial job–now she’s even farther north than Yorkshire! And Ser Richard is still hung up on an aristocratic female–but this one has dragons.) ---
**Author:** ![Sampiro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/2acd7d/32.png) [@Sampiro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sampiro)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2013, 4:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/downton-abbey-s3-spoiler-free-until-broadcast-in-the-u-s/645791/974 "2013-02-19T16:04:28Z")
[QUOTE=Bridget Burke] (Hmm… blood magic. Perhaps there’s a crossover with _Game of Thrones_. Actually, there probably is–in fanfiction. We thought Gwen went to a secretarial job–now she’s even farther north than Yorkshire! And Ser Richard is still hung up on an aristocratic female–but this one has dragons.) [/QUOTE] So maybe we’ll finally get some Lady Mary:Tyrion action going. It will be wonderful seeing his introduction to her grandmother. Mary: Grand Ma-ma, this is my new fiance, Tyrion Lannister. Violet: Where, dear? ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2013, 4:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/downton-abbey-s3-spoiler-free-until-broadcast-in-the-u-s/645791/975 "2013-02-19T16:33:09Z")
Despite Matthew’s horribly rushed demise, I enjoyed the episode, all in all. Carson’s soothing the baby, Mrs. Patmore’s relief when she learns the truth about her bumpkin suitor, Jimmy’s careful offer of friendship to Thomas, Bates’s beaming when he sees Anna dancing a reel, and Mrs. Hughes’s comforting of Tom when he admits how much he misses Sybil - all gold. I have to admit, when O’Brien crossed the dance hall to speak to the Scottish lady, I thought she was going to try to get a new job as _her_ lady’s maid! The whole Scottish plotline seemed to be a way of showing that not every household was as happy as Downton - quarreling lord and lady, a mean and overbearing butler, a sullen staff, etc. Here’s the castle where they filmed: [Inveraray Castle - Wikipedia](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inverary_Castle) And here’s “Downton Place”: [Greys Court - Wikipedia](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greys_Court) > [@Sampiro](#): > > Rumor is that next year Violet will reveal that Robert has a younger brother, Ruprecht…He will be played by either Sacha Baron Cohen, who’s already trying out wacky accents for the character, or Steve Buscemi as Nucky Thompson as Violet’s long lost heir. Heh. I have another Steve in mind, and better yet, he’s already played a character named Ruprecht: [http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nqMc9B7uDV8](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nqMc9B7uDV8) > [@AuntiePam](#): > > [The grumpy Scottish lady was played by] Phoebe Nichols – [IMDB page](http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0629498/) > > She looked familiar to me too but I don’t recall seeing anything on her credits list. She reminded me of Mrs. Kravitz from _Bewitched_. > [@freckafree](#): > > She reminded me of a grumpy-looking Mary Steenburgen. I thought she looked like Frasier’s evil agent, Bebe: [Harriet Sansom Harris - Wikipedia](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Harriet_Sansom_Harris) > [@Toucanna](#): > > …it was not made definite that Matthew died in the crash. If Fellowes is smart, he will stick Matthew in a coma. This will allow Dan Stevens to come back to the show as a regular if he wants to. Or, he could make the occasional cameo appearance, as his schedule permits. “I’m not dead yet!”… Would that it were so, but I’m afraid that he’s “really most sincerely dead.” > [@SpoilerVirgin](#): > > …Incidentally, I understand that this episode was shown on Christmas Day in the UK. The ending certainly made a lovely Christmas treat. Gosh, wasn’t it, though? Nothing says “Yuletide cheer” like seeing blood run down a man’s face after a car crash. Predictions: Rose and/or Edith get caught up in the suffragette movement, and Tom feels the call of Ireland once more when the Free State is established in 1922. Now that the season’s over, here’s the earlier open-spoiler thread: [Downton Abbey -- Series Three (open spoilers) - Cafe Society - Straight Dope Message Board](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=659458) ---
**Author:** ![ThelmaLou](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thelmalou/32/390_2.png) [@ThelmaLou](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ThelmaLou)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2013, 4:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/downton-abbey-s3-spoiler-free-until-broadcast-in-the-u-s/645791/976 "2013-02-19T16:47:33Z")
> [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](#): > > I have to admit, when O’Brien crossed the dance hall to speak to the Scottish lady, I thought she was going to try to get a new job as _her_ lady’s maid! I thought so, too! Then O’Brien could get to travel with Shrimpie & Co., and the sourpuss would take O’Brien’s place at Downton. New reality show: _Lady’s Maid Swap!_ That cranky old bitch would make O’Brien look like Mother Teresa. ---
**Author:** ![Sampiro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/2acd7d/32.png) [@Sampiro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sampiro)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2013, 4:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/downton-abbey-s3-spoiler-free-until-broadcast-in-the-u-s/645791/977 "2013-02-19T16:57:41Z")
O’Brien and Lady Shrimpie would open a bitterness vortex a sonic screwdriver couldn’t close. Ultimately they’d make a suicide pact with a bar of soap and a curling iron. ---
**Author:** ![IvoryTowerDenizen](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ivorytowerdenizen/32/17937_2.png) [@IvoryTowerDenizen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/IvoryTowerDenizen)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2013, 5:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/downton-abbey-s3-spoiler-free-until-broadcast-in-the-u-s/645791/978 "2013-02-19T17:01:34Z")
> [@ThelmaLou](#): > > I thought so, too! Then O’Brien could get to travel with Shrimpie & Co., and the sourpuss would take O’Brien’s place at Downton. New reality show: _Lady’s Maid Swap!_ That cranky old bitch would make O’Brien look like Mother Teresa. I’m wondering if cranky Scottish lady’s maid will follow Rose to Downton to give OBrian a new nemesis, since the one with Thomas seems to have petered out. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2013, 5:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/downton-abbey-s3-spoiler-free-until-broadcast-in-the-u-s/645791/979 "2013-02-19T17:45:47Z")
As soon as I saw Matthew driving the car, I knew an accident was coming. This was an OK episode, except the whole thing with the new maid and the ex-chaufeur seemed like a bit of fluff. I did notice, however, that the actress who plays Mary looks like she could, IRL, be the daughter of Lady Grantham. Shrimpy. That made me laugh every time someone used it. And Rose… well, I can see her causing all sorts of trouble in the next season! ---
**Author:** ![Sampiro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/2acd7d/32.png) [@Sampiro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sampiro)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2013, 6:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/downton-abbey-s3-spoiler-free-until-broadcast-in-the-u-s/645791/980 "2013-02-19T18:02:05Z")
Looking at Duneagle I was struck by how much it looked like a fairy tale castle, so much so it was probably built intentionally to look like one (ala Mad King Ludwig’s follies). Looked it up, and it’s Inveraray Castle in Scotland, and while the castle (or, I suppose, the mansion) is 17th century, it [looked like this](http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/7/7a/Inverary_Castle_Morris_edited.jpg) until at least 1880 as opposed to its [current appearance](http://images3.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20121126035412/downtonabbey/images/f/f4/Inveraray-Castle.jpg). The family also still has 60,000 acres. Apparently, they were pretty good stewards (as opposed to Stewarts, who they’re probably related to as well) or married very well. I wonder if there are _any_ of the great estates that are still all of the following: -In the original family -In good repair -Not open to the public or dependant on tourism or film for their upkeep Anyone know of any? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/downton-abbey-s3-spoiler-free-until-broadcast-in-the-u-s/645791.md?page=48) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/downton-abbey-s3-spoiler-free-until-broadcast-in-the-u-s/645791.md?page=50)