The grandparents didn’t take the child away, Ethel gave him to them. The grandmother proposed giving her money, which would’ve been a small sum, but presumably enough to keep Ethel off her back. Ethel gave Charlie up for the boy to have a privileged life which she could never provide, even with help from the grandparents. It’s no different than modern women who put their children up for adoption hoping they’ll have a better life then the birth mother can provide. The grandfather is an ass, of course. Hopefully they’ll raise Charlie better than they raised their son.
As for the Patmores of this world, she’s likely had better food, healthcare and would have a better retirement as a long-term servant of a great estate than if she was working as a seamstress in a factory or a server in a teashop. “Below Stairs” is a book written by a woman who left home and went into service when she was about 12, mostly because her family couldn’t feed her. Starting as a kitchen maid, it was very hard work. But at least she wasn’t starving. The woman who wrote this book had a real grudge against the “haves”, and very often for good reason. But at least she didn’t starve, or die in infancy from the effects of starvation and disease, like the slum children in Angela’s Ashes.
ThelmaLou - I felt so sorry for Daisy at that moment.
Did most large estates have estate managers, who reported to the gentry? At one point when talking to Matthew, Lord G. said that some (whose name I didn’t get) was always trying to get him to change things at the estate.Does anyone know who that someone is?
I doubt that either (a) someone sinister is profiting from Downton’s poor management, or (b) Lord G is running it particularly badly. I suspect it’s just an issue that he does everything in the basic and kind of obviously traditional way that his father did it, the same way his father’s father did it, and that just clearly does not work in the “modern” world.
I think Tom and Sybil came up with a plan that seemed sensible at the time, and only after he got to Downton did he realize how much it made him seem a cad. But maybe I just want to find excuses for him, since he has such a modern political sensibility.
I’m also super-bored with Bates Behind Bars.
Yes, most landed estates had stewards–who were in charge of everything. They even outranked the butler, although the butler generally ran the big house and the steward oversaw everything else. Grantham mentioned Murray–his lawyer. There is apparently no steward…
Hi guys - I was wondering if someone could do me a small favor - I missed last night (Grumble -husband didn’t go to sleep when he was supposed to - grumble) so if someone has a moment, would you mind to terribly PM’ing me what happened? I’d REALLY appreciate it!!
That’s a note that did not ring true for me. If maintaining Downton is such a life’s work for Robert, I would have thought he was more on top of it, or at least would have found someone to manage it efficiently.
And I seemed to have missed something -[spoiler]First Bates was on the outs with someone in the prison, so his mail didn’t get delivered. Then something happened where they found something or other in his cell mate’s bunk - I got the impression that it had been planted there - and then things were OK again and he and his wife could send each other mail again.
LOL, could just about hear* scchhhhwwwiiiiiinnnnggggg!!!* when Thomas saw James! I don’t think I’ve ever seen Thomas smile so broadly!
And it’s an interesting reminder of middle school to see everyone fawning over a pretty face just for being a pretty face. Wow. The Beautiful sure do live a different life; I’d sort of forgotten.
As rotten as Charlie’s grandfather was, I was relieved the grandmother seemed genuinely warm - even intimating that Ethel would see her son again. Still, an utterly heartbreaking scene when Ethel watched Charlie waving in the back window of the car as they drove away. Didn’t someone here suggest she may end up killing herself? - I could clearly see that now.
Would love to see a little more PDA between Mary and Matthew. Ah well, at least there’s Tom and Sybil …
What Tom doesn’t seem to realize is, since he’d be arrested as soon as he put foot in Ireland, he wouldn’t be able to have any meaningful part in the Revolution. So, painful as it is, he might as well stay at Downton. Perhaps he and Sybil can live in one of those little cottages that Anna used to talk about, the ones on the grounds for married servants.
It was quite amusing when Matthew wondered what he and Mary would do for a nursery once they’d converted the existing one to their sitting room. There are literally 200 rooms in that house (well, in Highclere anyway). It might be hard to find a suitable empty room near their own area of the house, but it’s still a kind of absurd thought.
Although I’m sure he was just using the situation as an excuse to drop a hint to Mary. Who didn’t seem very pleased at the idea.
Mary’s ovaries aren’t getting any younger. And, of course, Matthew’s first duty is to assure there’s another heir.
I’m surprised the nursery (even the day nursery) would be so close to the adult rooms. I thought children were better seen on schedule than heard. I wonder if the Crawley girls’ old nanny is still bumping around the estate somewhere.
brownMouse - It would make more sense to install Matthew’s mother in Downton (and wouldn’t that be fun to watch!) and give Sybil and Tom the house that she’s using. She doesn’t need a whole house for just her. And really, how many “fallen women” can there be in the village - she needs to take a flat in London and pursue her good works there.
I was wondering what happened with Bates and his cellmate.
I think the thing discovered in the cellmate’s bunk was the same thing that he planted in Bates’ bunk. But the cellmate still has a corrupt guard in his pocket, so I don’t fully understand how things turned around for Bates.
She mentioned she’d been to see the doctor. If she’s converting a nursery, maybe the doctor told her there would be no children. Has she been married long enough to be concerned that she’s not pregnant yet? Would a woman of her time see a doctor about that? I can’t imagine that she doesn’t want to produce an heir.
Shodan and Dewey Finn, why are you boxing stuff that was in the episode?
Yeah, from what I’ve read/seen of stories like this, the nursery was usually on an entirely different floor from the adult bedrooms, up under the eaves somewhere. Maybe the Crawleys are planning on being mod-run and having the kid(s) nearby. Maybe Mary will even <gasp> breast feed it(them).
Do we know anything from past episodes about Mary’s fertility or lack of?
I’m sure Mary wouldn’t breastfeed. They’d have a wetnurse, maybe?
As for Mary’s fertility, I doubt she would have any clue if there was a problem until conception didn’t take place. Even now, with diagnostics much more advanced and women more likely to be checked out, many women don’t learn about fertility issues until there start trying. What about Matthew’s fertility? After his war injury, was it proven that he was fertile? I don’t remember.
At this point they’ve been married less than 6 months. And a woman of her time & class would certainly see a doctor if the was having fertility issues, or any female issues. Probally a famous knighted gynaecologist in London who specialized in treating the wealthy aristocrats & members of the Royal family. Wether the doctor can actually help her is another matter.
I think everyone just took it for granted that if he could still shoot he could father a child. Of course that isn’t necessarily true, and Mathew spends alot of time in upcoming episodes wondering about it.
Both Carson and the Dowager Countess had some good lines.
I presume Bates hid the same thing in his cellmate’s bunk that his cellmate had tried to hide in his earlier - hashish, was it?
The scene where the kid was given away was heartbreaking.
If I were Mrs. Crawley I’d say to the snippy maid, “Who I choose to welcome into my home is my business. You will treat all of my guests with the same courtesy with which you treat me. If you find you cannot, I’m sure there are other households to which you might apply to work.”
Nice bit at the end with Bates and Anna reading each other’s long-delayed mail.
Interestingly, the episodes as shown on PBS actually have additional scenes that were not in the UK version! Last year it was the opposite, with things being *cut *for PBS!
And yeah, I agree. I loved that last shot of the episode with the fade-in of Bates & Anna reading each other’s letters.
