When my sister married a non-Catholic about 25 years ago, the wedding was held in the church. My BIL had to agree that any children would be raised Catholic, which didn’t happen because my sister only got married in the Church to please my parents. Although she considers herself Catholic, my sister doesn’t go to Mass and neither did their daughter, although she was also baptized in the same parish.
Back to Downton Abbey, I’d bet that Sybil’s running off and marrying Tom was such a shock her father didn’t have time to think of the religious differences until it was over. I will say that I liked that even in her shock and grief, one of Violet’s first questions was where Tom was. Violet may not have approved of the marriage, but once it was done, she treated Tom as civilly (or uncivilly) as she treated everyone else. Snarky, but not mean, if you know what I mean.
Is the book worth a read? My husband, oddly enough, is madly fond of the series (after I introduced it to him).
And Downton Abbey viewers: if you’re fond of Bates, you might enjoy Lark Rise, the television series. Also “North and South”, not the US Civil War TV drama.
They are relatively close in liturgy and doctrine - kinda sorta - and the Pope is now welcoming conservative Episcopalian and Anglican clergy who want to become Catholic. They can even keep their wives!: http://www.time.com/time/world/article/0,8599,1931193,00.html
I loved North and South, but got bored with Lark Rise to Candleford. I loved all the actors in it that I recognized, but the story line didn’t keep me watching.
Yeah, Violet is by far my favorite character. Cora’s Mom accused her of being unable to accept change, but that’s very far frm the truth. She accepts it so seemlessly, and folds it so naturally into her life, that you just don’t notice. Her first motive is always decency, which is more than can be said for most of them upstairs and down.
Agree completely. Violet is the most honest and decent of all of them. I think she represents the admirable and honorable aristocratic values that “modern times” are assaulting and will ultimately destroy. She is a rock and a pillar of the old ways. Which is why she “took the time” to put on full mourning before she came to the house, as someone noted upthread. It was the proper thing to do out of respect and tradition.
New topic: Will someone run through the rules for who is Lady <first name> and who is Lady <last name>? The daughters of an earl are Lady Mary, Lady Edith, etc. The wife is Lady Grantham, is that right? What is Violet now that someone else is Lady Grantham? I mean how is she to be addressed in the invitation I’m sending her?
I remember in the original Upstairs Downstairs, Lady Marjorie was the daughter of an earl, but I think her husband was just Mr. Bellamy. If the genders were reversed, would he be Lord <Whatever> and she Mrs. Bellamy?
Can’t put my foot in my mouth at Ascot, don’tcha know.
To the Dowager Countess Grantham.
Dear Lady Grantham…
As the Dowager Countess of Grantham she retains her title of Lady Grantham. She can also be called Old Lady Grantham, which strikes me as rather unflattering. It’s just like Queen Elizabeth’s mother who held the title of Queen Elizabeth The Queen Mother after he husband died. The ‘Queen Mother’ bit was an invention, previous Queens-of-Dead-Kings have been Dowager Queens and retain ‘Her Majesty’ as an honorific.
Daughters of titled peers don’t have titles in their own right so carry a courtesy title of Lady (first name, surname). So Mary is Lady Mary Crawley (the family surname, not the ‘Grantham’ title). Sons have ‘The Honourable FirstName Surname’, but first sons of high ranking peers often have a title in their own right, eg the son of the Duke of Devonshire is the Earl of Burlington up until he inherits the dukedom. I presume this is because back in the middle ages peers went round collecting as many titles for themselves and their sons as they could.
No, wives of peers take their husband’s status, so she would be Lady <Whatever>.
Violet is the dowager countess of Grantham. I think what’s still bothering me days later is that I feel she let her son off the hook for Lady Sybil’s death. The Earl is so incompetent and so arrogant. I felt as if someone should have screamed at him after her death.
ThelmaLou,
My understanding is that the wife takes the husband’s status but the husband does not take his wife’s status. She also retains her original status. So Lady Sybil will always be Lady Sybil but her husband would never be Lord Sybil. If she had married a Duke or Earl she would be Duchess or Countess So and So.
Actually, thinking about it, if the son was not the heir with his own title, then his courtesy title would be The Honourable John Whatever, and his wife would, I assume, be the Honourable Mrs whatever. According to debrett’s this is never used in conversation or on invites, so they would just be Mr and Mrs.
I remember with Lord Peter Wimsey, Peter was the 2nd son of the Duke of Denver. His brother Gerald was the Duke and Peter kept the title of Lord Peter, not Lord Wimsey. And Harriet Vane was Lady Peter when she married Peter, not Lady Harriet.
Yes. He’ll be the new Earl of Grantham. Lady Mary will be the Countess of Grantham then. I wonder though. If he dies before Robert does, will Lady Mary be the Countess of Grantham? Or just continue to be Lady Mary?
Nope, just plain old Lady Mary. She would only be Countess by virtue of her husband being the Earl. She’ll have to track down and marry the next heir if she’s desperate to be the Countess.
Thank you. That would explain why Matthew’s mother has no title, right? Does Matthew currently have a title right now? Or does he have to wait until Robert dies? Right now he’s not Lord Matthew or Lord Grantham but just plain old Mr. Crawley, right?
I think if Matthew dies before Robert it will be as if Matthew was never heir. Just like the cousin that went down on the Titanic. They will have to look for another distant male relative. Unless of course, Mary is pregnant with or has a son at the time of Matthew’s death.
What I’m curious about is, if Robert dies before Violet, will both Violet and Cora be Dowager Countesses?
Ah yes! A new series, * Downtown Abbey Strikes Back*… they find an heir in Australia, played by Hugh Jackman and Lady Mary goes there to seduce him…with music. Then he’s killed in a sheepherding mishap, but there’s another heir in India, so she packs her bags and heads to Bengal. But then he dies in political riots, so she sets her sights on Canada… this could continue for many seasons and keep a lot of people employed (like the Law & Order franchise).