# Downton Abbey S4 - spoiler-free until broadcast in the U.S. **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [March 2, 2013, 7:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/downton-abbey-s4-spoiler-free-until-broadcast-in-the-u-s/651844 "2013-03-02T19:48:15Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 11
**Author:** ![Ellen\_Cherry](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ellen_cherry/32/3600_2.png) [@Ellen\_Cherry](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ellen_Cherry)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2014, 1:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/downton-abbey-s4-spoiler-free-until-broadcast-in-the-u-s/651844/201 "2014-01-21T01:42:11Z")
I didn’t mean that Anna was not raped; I only used “rape/sex” as a shorthand for “people knew about rape, sex, incest, molestation, and all sorts of behavior both savory and unsavory” back then, though nice people didn’t talk about it _of course_. ---
**Author:** ![ThelmaLou](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thelmalou/32/390_2.png) [@ThelmaLou](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ThelmaLou)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2014, 2:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/downton-abbey-s4-spoiler-free-until-broadcast-in-the-u-s/651844/202 "2014-01-21T02:01:46Z")
> [@LibrarySpy](#): > > Women can [get pregnant on their period](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=223724&page=2), but it might have scared her into revealing the truth, as Ms. Hughes managed anyway. > > Frankly I’m a little curious as to what that book said. Basically Mrs. Hughes called Edna’s bluff. Remember she said to Tom that Edna would not have gotten pregnant until she got the commitment from Tom to marry her IF she was pregnant. Once she got the commitment, she’d bang any old guy, as Mrs. Hughes said, and find someone to knock her up. ---
**Author:** ![Lamia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/8e7dd6/32.png) [@Lamia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lamia)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2014, 2:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/downton-abbey-s4-spoiler-free-until-broadcast-in-the-u-s/651844/203 "2014-01-21T02:08:36Z")
> [@AuntiePam](#): > > I was surprised at the way Mrs. Hughes outed Edna. I thought the proof that Edna wasn’t pregnant would be from the laundry, something to pinpoint Edna’s menstrual cycle. Or did people not know about ovulation cycles and timing in the 1920’s? I think they knew about that well before the 1920s, but Mrs. Hughes didn’t need that kind of evidence. She knew Edna was familiar with modern methods of contraception (see below), but more importantly she knew Edna was too cunning to let herself get knocked up _before_ she had a promise from Tom. > [@LibrarySpy](#): > > Frankly I’m a little curious as to what that book said. IIRC Mrs. Hughes said it was a book by Margaret Sanger. Sanger was an American birth control activist who advocated the use of diaphragms, and I assume that was what Edna was using. ---
**Author:** ![Andiethewestie](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ba9def/32.png) [@Andiethewestie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Andiethewestie)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2014, 3:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/downton-abbey-s4-spoiler-free-until-broadcast-in-the-u-s/651844/204 "2014-01-21T03:18:31Z")
I thought Rosamund was absolutely right in confronting Edith. Despite Edith being unlucky last season, this is 1922 her name and her reputation and the Crawley household is on the line. She’s with a married man. What happens if she becomes pregnant? What would her options be? it’s just so unbelievably risky. Edith didn’t even look at what she was signing. He is going to Germany of all places. What if he becomes a facist? We all know what happened to the Duke and Duchess of Windsor. They were shunned, he marrieds a divocee, so the family were forbidden to attend their marriage, and moreover they were shunned because they were friendly with Hitler, and sent away to Bermuda for most of the war. I just think Edith has to be smarter than she is. I’m disappointed that she’s a bit daft. ---
**Author:** ![Andiethewestie](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ba9def/32.png) [@Andiethewestie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Andiethewestie)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2014, 3:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/downton-abbey-s4-spoiler-free-until-broadcast-in-the-u-s/651844/205 "2014-01-21T03:25:03Z")
> [@Lamia](#): > > I think they knew about that well before the 1920s, but Mrs. Hughes didn’t need that kind of evidence. She knew Edna was familiar with modern methods of contraception (see below), but more importantly she knew Edna was too cunning to let herself get knocked up _before_ she had a promise from Tom. > > IIRC Mrs. Hughes said it was a book by Margaret Sanger. Sanger was an American birth control activist who advocated the use of diaphragms, and I assume that was what Edna was using. Edna reading Sanger. I hope Edith does the same, or else she will be with child. ---
**Author:** ![StGermain](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/stgermain/32/2868_2.png) [@StGermain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/StGermain)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2014, 3:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/downton-abbey-s4-spoiler-free-until-broadcast-in-the-u-s/651844/206 "2014-01-21T03:35:04Z")
I just went back and rewatched the part with Mrs. Hughes and Edna. The book was _[Married Love](http://en.wikisource.org/wiki/Married_Love)_ by Dr. Marie Stopes. The text of the book is in the link. StG ---
**Author:** ![JackieLikesVariety](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jackielikesvariety/32/296_2.png) [@JackieLikesVariety](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JackieLikesVariety)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2014, 2:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/downton-abbey-s4-spoiler-free-until-broadcast-in-the-u-s/651844/207 "2014-01-21T14:55:45Z")
> [@Oslo\_Ostragoth](#): > > Another [Facebook recap](http://happyplace.someecards.com/28595/downton-abbey-facebook-recap-season-4-episode-2) for the second episode. [Here](http://happyplace.someecards.com/28749/downton-abbey-facebook-recap-season-4-episode-3)is the one for the third episode. > > An image from another thread: the costumers for the show deserve multiple awards for keeping [these things](http://i.imgur.com/9jH3R7Z.png) hidden. How many rolls of duct tape do you suppose that bit of artistry requires? I find the FB stuff hysterical, thanks for posting. 😃 good lord, Our Daisy has a rack! :eek: ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2014, 5:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/downton-abbey-s4-spoiler-free-until-broadcast-in-the-u-s/651844/208 "2014-01-21T17:43:34Z")
Yes, Mrs. Hughes just called her bluff. Pretty effectively, too. I would’ve bet any sum that Edna and Thomas were going to become allies - and was very surprised that they didn’t. Still, the scene in the stairwell just before she leaves was priceless. She’s blasting him and he’s just standing there, a smirky half-smile on his face and his shoulders thrown back, knowing she’s toast and he’ll be around forever. That’s Thomas to a tee. Fantastic. The FB summaries are also great. As with Lord Grantham’s anti-Catholicism, they’re going to have to tread very carefully as to the nightclub singer. Many aristocrats in 1922 would be unapologetically racist - but if the DA elite start offhandedly dropping n-bombs, it ain’t gonna help the ratings, to say the least. Of course Fellowes would never write that. Just one more layer of unrealism to the show (love it as I do). They definitely need to show Tom’s and Mary’s kids more. The occasional shot of them in baby carriages just isn’t enough. ---
**Author:** ![jsc1953](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/5daacb/32.png) [@jsc1953](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jsc1953)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2014, 6:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/downton-abbey-s4-spoiler-free-until-broadcast-in-the-u-s/651844/209 "2014-01-21T18:26:57Z")
> [@Andiethewestie](#): > > … He is going to Germany of all places. What if he becomes a facist? Not to say that it couldn’t happen, but in 1922 Germany, he would be ahead of the curve. At that point, Naziism was a lunatic fringe group. Hitler hadn’t attempted the beer hall putsch, and hadn’t written Mein Kampf yet. I tried reading “Married Love”, and good lord, you have to wade through a lot of flowery tripe to get to the good parts. Assuming there is actually usable information in there…I gave up. ---
**Author:** ![Dewey\_Finn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dewey_finn/32/4222_2.png) [@Dewey\_Finn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dewey_Finn)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2014, 6:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/downton-abbey-s4-spoiler-free-until-broadcast-in-the-u-s/651844/210 "2014-01-21T18:32:43Z")
> [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](#): > > I would’ve bet any sum that Edna and Thomas were going to become allies - and was very surprised that they didn’t. Wasn’t Thomas especially close to Sybil? If so, he might have felt protective of Tom Branson. ---
**Author:** ![StGermain](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/stgermain/32/2868_2.png) [@StGermain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/StGermain)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2014, 6:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/downton-abbey-s4-spoiler-free-until-broadcast-in-the-u-s/651844/211 "2014-01-21T18:36:34Z")
> [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](#): > > They definitely need to show Tom’s and Mary’s kids more. The occasional shot of them in baby carriages just isn’t enough. When the show becomes about the kids it’ll have jumped the shark in the famous TV trope. See Cousin Oliver. Besides, that was an age of children being shuttered away in the nursery until they were old enough to go to school. Then they were shuttered up in boarding school. **jsc1953** - You got further than I did. StG ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2014, 6:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/downton-abbey-s4-spoiler-free-until-broadcast-in-the-u-s/651844/212 "2014-01-21T18:36:50Z")
> [@JackieLikesVariety](#): > > good lord, Our Daisy has a rack! :eek: Wow, that’s actually impressive wardrobe work but why the bother? They didn’t have larger women in 1922? I’m pretty sure they could work in some cleavage in a soap opera dripping with overlapping affairs. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2014, 6:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/downton-abbey-s4-spoiler-free-until-broadcast-in-the-u-s/651844/213 "2014-01-21T18:39:46Z")
> [@ThelmaLou](#): > > Basically Mrs. Hughes called Edna’s bluff. Remember she said to Tom that Edna would not have gotten pregnant until she got the commitment from Tom to marry her IF she was pregnant. Once she got the commitment, she’d bang any old guy, as Mrs. Hughes said, and find someone to knock her up. Mrs. Hughes is quite the problem solver in this show. ---
**Author:** ![ISiddiqui](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/97f17d/32.png) [@ISiddiqui](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ISiddiqui)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2014, 6:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/downton-abbey-s4-spoiler-free-until-broadcast-in-the-u-s/651844/214 "2014-01-21T18:43:42Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > Wow, that’s actually impressive wardrobe work but why the bother? They didn’t have larger women in 1922? I’m pretty sure they could work in some cleavage in a soap opera dripping with overlapping affairs. I think it is an attempt to make Daisy appear to be younger / more of a girl than woman thing. ---
**Author:** ![Ellen\_Cherry](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ellen_cherry/32/3600_2.png) [@Ellen\_Cherry](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ellen_Cherry)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2014, 6:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/downton-abbey-s4-spoiler-free-until-broadcast-in-the-u-s/651844/215 "2014-01-21T18:46:08Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > Mrs. Hughes is quite the problem solver in this show. Great user name/post combo! ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2014, 6:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/downton-abbey-s4-spoiler-free-until-broadcast-in-the-u-s/651844/216 "2014-01-21T18:56:29Z")
> [@ISiddiqui](#): > > I think it is an attempt to make Daisy appear to be younger / more of a girl than woman thing. I can sort of see that (literally) but it’s 1922. She’s not getting any younger. But yes, she is being passed off as bambi so I think you’re right. ---
**Author:** ![delphica](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e9a140/32.png) [@delphica](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/delphica)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2014, 8:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/downton-abbey-s4-spoiler-free-until-broadcast-in-the-u-s/651844/217 "2014-01-21T20:50:39Z")
I was very frustrated by dopey Tom not understanding he had to avoid Edna, so I’m glad Mrs. Hughes seemed to take care of things in double time. The line of the episode, IMHO, went to Mary, when she said that Edith was about as mysterious as a bucket. I agree Edith didn’t even look at what she was signing, but I couldn’t tell if that was supposed to be a plot point (like it will come to pass that she actually signed something nefarious) or just TV shortcut for “here, sign this document.” While I feel badly for Edith, I believe Aunt Rosamund’s reaction was absolutely in keeping with the time and culture. As far as Aunt Rosamund is concerned, her stern words are clearly with Edith’s best interests in mind. I thought it was slightly odd that Cousin Rose was dancing with Drunk Guy … which was obvious to everyone in the room, and neither Tom nor Lord Gillingham DID anything other than look confused. Lord Gillingham would have the manners, and Tom would have the real world common sense, to step in to separate her from a falling down drunk partner. (Although I get that from a plotting perspective, the ENTIRE POINT was to have her meet the band leader.) ---
**Author:** ![Lamia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/8e7dd6/32.png) [@Lamia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lamia)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2014, 9:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/downton-abbey-s4-spoiler-free-until-broadcast-in-the-u-s/651844/218 "2014-01-21T21:16:23Z")
> [@StGermain](#): > > I just went back and rewatched the part with Mrs. Hughes and Edna. The book was _[Married Love](http://en.wikisource.org/wiki/Married_Love)_ by Dr. Marie Stopes. The text of the book is in the link. Well, I had the author’s _initials_ right… ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2014, 9:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/downton-abbey-s4-spoiler-free-until-broadcast-in-the-u-s/651844/219 "2014-01-21T21:31:51Z")
> [@Dewey\_Finn](#): > > Wasn’t Thomas especially close to Sybil? If so, he might have felt protective of Tom Branson. Hadn’t thought of that - could be (although he rather snippily corrected Branson when Tom called him by the wrong name in asking for a drink at that fancy party). ---
**Author:** ![Lamia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/8e7dd6/32.png) [@Lamia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lamia)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2014, 10:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/downton-abbey-s4-spoiler-free-until-broadcast-in-the-u-s/651844/220 "2014-01-21T22:35:19Z")
> [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](#): > > I would’ve bet any sum that Edna and Thomas were going to become allies - and was very surprised that they didn’t. Well, Thomas did go out of his way to help Edna cover up the damaged dress incident…but I wouldn’t expect Thomas to be a particularly _loyal_ ally. Especially not once he’d realized that Edna had a very good opinion of herself but was no O’Brien in terms of intelligence or cunning. I’ll spoiler this because I can’t remember if it was mentioned in the actual episode or in the teaser for next week, but Thomas may also have been happy to see Edna lose her position as lady’s maid not just because she was annoying but because he knew of another woman for the job. I don’t know who she is or why he wants her at Dalton Abbey, but Thomas said something about knowing of another candidate and the teaser indicated that the woman he had in mind will be hired.Thinking of the damaged dress, when it comes to the change in Anna’s behavior then Lady Grantham at least has reason to believe that Anna was acting strangely _before_ the party where Dame Nellie performed. Edna and Thomas blamed the damaged dress on her, and Thomas suggested that Anna might even have done it on purpose because she resented Edna and wanted to get her into trouble. A more charitable interpretation might be that whatever has Anna so upset these days was already distracting her prior to the party and that she damaged the dress by accident. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/downton-abbey-s4-spoiler-free-until-broadcast-in-the-u-s/651844.md?page=10) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/downton-abbey-s4-spoiler-free-until-broadcast-in-the-u-s/651844.md?page=12)