# Downton Abbey S4 - spoiler-free until broadcast in the U.S. **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [March 2, 2013, 7:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/downton-abbey-s4-spoiler-free-until-broadcast-in-the-u-s/651844 "2013-03-02T19:48:15Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 12
**Author:** ![Fiveyearlurker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/da6949/32.png) [@Fiveyearlurker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fiveyearlurker)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2014, 11:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/downton-abbey-s4-spoiler-free-until-broadcast-in-the-u-s/651844/221 "2014-01-21T23:37:37Z")
> [@ThelmaLou](#): > > Basically Mrs. Hughes called Edna’s bluff. Remember she said to Tom that Edna would not have gotten pregnant until she got the commitment from Tom to marry her IF she was pregnant. Once she got the commitment, she’d bang any old guy, as Mrs. Hughes said, and find someone to knock her up. But she would have to have someone knock her up that month, or else the math doesn’t work. That’s not exactly a sure thing! ---
**Author:** ![ThelmaLou](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thelmalou/32/390_2.png) [@ThelmaLou](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ThelmaLou)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2014, 11:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/downton-abbey-s4-spoiler-free-until-broadcast-in-the-u-s/651844/222 "2014-01-21T23:54:34Z")
> [@Fiveyearlurker](#): > > But she would have to have someone knock her up that month, or else the math doesn’t work. That’s not exactly a sure thing! Well, if she arranged to get enough action, she could probably pull it off. And a month or two either way could be explained. Aside: this was mentioned before but it’s aggravating to have Edith, Edna, and Ethel floating around, not to mention Rose \*\*\*AND \*\*\*Rosamund. ---
**Author:** ![Lamia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/8e7dd6/32.png) [@Lamia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lamia)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2014, 12:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/downton-abbey-s4-spoiler-free-until-broadcast-in-the-u-s/651844/223 "2014-01-22T00:09:10Z")
> [@ThelmaLou](#): > > Aside: this was mentioned before but it’s aggravating to have Edith, Edna, and Ethel floating around, not to mention Rose \*\*\*AND \*\*\*Rosamund. Don’t forget Tom and Thomas. Even their last names are fairly similar – Branson and Barrow. ---
**Author:** ![AuntiePam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/f19dbf/32.png) [@AuntiePam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AuntiePam)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2014, 12:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/downton-abbey-s4-spoiler-free-until-broadcast-in-the-u-s/651844/224 "2014-01-22T00:31:34Z")
> [@Fiveyearlurker](#): > > But she would have to have someone knock her up that month, or else the math doesn’t work. That’s not exactly a sure thing! Maybe she was planning to seduce Thomas. Didn’t she make some remark about how she could do something for him? So she gets Branson to promise he’ll marry her if she falls pregnant, and then uses Thomas to insure that she does. Makes me wonder if she’s been pregnant before. She doesn’t even know if she’s fertile. ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2014, 2:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/downton-abbey-s4-spoiler-free-until-broadcast-in-the-u-s/651844/225 "2014-01-22T02:22:34Z")
Or that Thomas has… other interests. ---
**Author:** ![ThelmaLou](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thelmalou/32/390_2.png) [@ThelmaLou](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ThelmaLou)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2014, 2:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/downton-abbey-s4-spoiler-free-until-broadcast-in-the-u-s/651844/226 "2014-01-22T02:27:27Z")
> [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](#): > > Or that Thomas has… other interests. Yeah, I think it was established a couple of seasons ago that Thomas is gay. Didn’t he put the moves on the wrong person? ---
**Author:** ![AuntiePam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/f19dbf/32.png) [@AuntiePam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AuntiePam)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2014, 4:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/downton-abbey-s4-spoiler-free-until-broadcast-in-the-u-s/651844/227 "2014-01-22T04:07:39Z")
He is, but Edna doesn’t know that. I’m not sure anyone at Downton knows. Did O’Brien know? I can’t remember. ---
**Author:** ![Lamia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/8e7dd6/32.png) [@Lamia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lamia)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2014, 4:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/downton-abbey-s4-spoiler-free-until-broadcast-in-the-u-s/651844/228 "2014-01-22T04:44:47Z")
> [@AuntiePam](#): > > He is, but Edna doesn’t know that. I’m not sure anyone at Downton knows. Did O’Brien know? I can’t remember. O’Brien definitely knew, she set Thomas up to think that Jimmy was interested in him. And when everyone found out about Thomas kissing Jimmy, absolutely no one seemed surprised that Thomas swung that way. Even Lord Grantham said something like “Well, everyone knew about Thomas.” Since that was all before Edna was hired the first time and she wasn’t around long, she may very well not have heard that Thomas preferred men. Even if she had, I guess that doesn’t necessarily mean she would have ruled him out as a potential baby daddy – it would have been rather progressive for her to accept homosexuality as a real sexual orientation. ---
**Author:** ![Eyebrows\_0f\_Doom](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eyebrows_0f_doom/32/3119_2.png) [@Eyebrows\_0f\_Doom](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eyebrows_0f_Doom)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2014, 5:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/downton-abbey-s4-spoiler-free-until-broadcast-in-the-u-s/651844/229 "2014-01-22T05:20:52Z")
> [@AuntiePam](#): > > He is, but Edna doesn’t know that. I’m not sure anyone at Downton knows. Did O’Brien know? I can’t remember. Pretty much everyone knows. Robert, Mr. Carson, Mrs. Hughes, Bates, Anna, Mrs. Patmore, Jimmy & Alfred know for sure and the others likely do as well. ---
**Author:** ![delphica](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e9a140/32.png) [@delphica](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/delphica)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2014, 3:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/downton-abbey-s4-spoiler-free-until-broadcast-in-the-u-s/651844/230 "2014-01-22T15:28:35Z")
> [@Lamia](#): > > Since that was all before Edna was hired the first time and she wasn’t around long, she may very well not have heard that Thomas preferred men. Even if she had, I guess that doesn’t necessarily mean she would have ruled him out as a potential baby daddy – it would have been rather progressive for her to accept homosexuality as a real sexual orientation. Exactly. I think a common view of homosexuality included married men with children who would occasionally sneak off for something on the side. Even the most progressive people would have viewed this as an extremely “don’t ask, don’t tell” situation. I don’t think anyone would have thought it would preclude someone from fathering a child. ---
**Author:** ![Dewey\_Finn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dewey_finn/32/4222_2.png) [@Dewey\_Finn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dewey_Finn)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2014, 3:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/downton-abbey-s4-spoiler-free-until-broadcast-in-the-u-s/651844/231 "2014-01-22T15:33:39Z")
Can someone remind me about Edna’s first position in the household and why she left? I can’t remember. ---
**Author:** ![Tangent](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tangent/32/3098_2.png) [@Tangent](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tangent)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2014, 3:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/downton-abbey-s4-spoiler-free-until-broadcast-in-the-u-s/651844/232 "2014-01-22T15:42:22Z")
She was a housemaid. She was made to leave because she was making advances on Tom, and treating him like he was her equal. (remember that Tom was a chauffeur prior to marrying Sybil, but his marriage elevated his status) ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2014, 4:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/downton-abbey-s4-spoiler-free-until-broadcast-in-the-u-s/651844/233 "2014-01-22T16:48:21Z")
> [@Lamia](#): > > IIRC Mrs. Hughes said it was a book by Margaret Sanger. Sanger was an American birth control activist who advocated the use of diaphragms, and I assume that was what Edna was using. As noted, it was Stopes, but what methods of contraception would be available to women that would be un-noticed by men? Would a diaphragm be available in England in 1922? Condoms and withdrawal the man would know about. The rhythm method is a possibility. Was it widely known about? Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![IvoryTowerDenizen](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ivorytowerdenizen/32/17937_2.png) [@IvoryTowerDenizen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/IvoryTowerDenizen)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2014, 4:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/downton-abbey-s4-spoiler-free-until-broadcast-in-the-u-s/651844/234 "2014-01-22T16:56:37Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > As noted, it was Stopes, but what methods of contraception would be available to women that would be un-noticed by men? Would a diaphragm be available in England in 1922? > > Condoms and withdrawal the man would know about. The rhythm method is a possibility. Was it widely known about? > > Regards, > Shodan According to this site: [http://www.ourbodiesourselves.org/book/companion.asp?id=18&compID=53](http://www.ourbodiesourselves.org/book/companion.asp?id=18&compID=53) Condoms and diaphragms/cervical caps were available as early at 1880. ---
**Author:** ![jsc1953](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/5daacb/32.png) [@jsc1953](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jsc1953)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2014, 5:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/downton-abbey-s4-spoiler-free-until-broadcast-in-the-u-s/651844/235 "2014-01-22T17:22:34Z")
> [@IvoryTowerDenizen](#): > > According to this site: [http://www.ourbodiesourselves.org/book/companion.asp?id=18&compID=53](http://www.ourbodiesourselves.org/book/companion.asp?id=18&compID=53) > > Condoms and diaphragms/cervical caps were available as early at 1880. In “Married Love”, after the author is done ladling on buckets of flowery prose, euphemisms, metaphors and oblique references, she finally gets to the point of contraception, and comes down to one direct but not particularly helpful sentence: > [@Marie Stopes](#): > > To render inert the ejaculated spermatozoa which would otherwise die and decompose naturally, is a simple matter, now familiar to every intelligent physician and layman. The knowledge is easily obtainable. ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2014, 5:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/downton-abbey-s4-spoiler-free-until-broadcast-in-the-u-s/651844/236 "2014-01-22T17:26:05Z")
Sheesh. Ya know one way to make it “easily obtainable,” Miss Stopes? Put it in your damn book! ---
**Author:** ![Dewey\_Finn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dewey_finn/32/4222_2.png) [@Dewey\_Finn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dewey_Finn)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2014, 5:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/downton-abbey-s4-spoiler-free-until-broadcast-in-the-u-s/651844/237 "2014-01-22T17:37:15Z")
I’m assuming she was dancing around information that she couldn’t put in the book without being prosecuted, perhaps for practicing medicine without a license. ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2014, 5:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/downton-abbey-s4-spoiler-free-until-broadcast-in-the-u-s/651844/238 "2014-01-22T17:52:34Z")
Very likely, but it makes me wonder why (other than greed) she’d bother writing the book at all. ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2014, 6:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/downton-abbey-s4-spoiler-free-until-broadcast-in-the-u-s/651844/239 "2014-01-22T18:36:40Z")
> [@IvoryTowerDenizen](#): > > According to this site: [http://www.ourbodiesourselves.org/book/companion.asp?id=18&compID=53](http://www.ourbodiesourselves.org/book/companion.asp?id=18&compID=53) > > Condoms and diaphragms/cervical caps were available as early at 1880. Tom would have noticed if condoms had been used, and so would not have been uncertain as to whether or not Edna was pregnant. I didn’t see any reference to diaphragms in the _Married Love_ book. And how would Edna get hold of a diaphragm? Unless this is a plot development - Isabel Crawley is going to change the doctor’s surgery into a birth control clinic, leading to confusion and laughs. :eek: Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![IvoryTowerDenizen](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ivorytowerdenizen/32/17937_2.png) [@IvoryTowerDenizen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/IvoryTowerDenizen)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2014, 6:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/downton-abbey-s4-spoiler-free-until-broadcast-in-the-u-s/651844/240 "2014-01-22T18:41:21Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > Tom would have noticed if condoms had been used, and so would not have been uncertain as to whether or not Edna was pregnant. I didn’t see any reference to diaphragms in the _Married Love_ book. And how would Edna get hold of a diaphragm? > > Unless this is a plot development - Isabel Crawley is going to change the doctor’s surgery into a birth control clinic, leading to confusion and laughs. > :eek: > > Regards, > Shodan > **[Birth control](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Birth_control#Birth_control_movement)** > > Birth control, also known as contraception, anticonception, and fertility control, is the use of methods or devices to prevent pregnancy. Birth control has been used since ancient times, but effective and safe methods of birth control only became available in the 20th century. Planning, making available, and using human birth control is called family planning. Some cultures limit or discourage access to birth control because they consider it to be morally, religiously, or political The World... Birth control clinics had been established in Britain at that point. Doctors and midwives also had access to supplies. It wasn’t easy, but women did have access to limited choices. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/downton-abbey-s4-spoiler-free-until-broadcast-in-the-u-s/651844.md?page=11) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/downton-abbey-s4-spoiler-free-until-broadcast-in-the-u-s/651844.md?page=13)