# Downton Abbey S4 - spoiler-free until broadcast in the U.S. **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [March 2, 2013, 7:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/downton-abbey-s4-spoiler-free-until-broadcast-in-the-u-s/651844 "2013-03-02T19:48:15Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 17
**Author:** ![ThelmaLou](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thelmalou/32/390_2.png) [@ThelmaLou](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ThelmaLou)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2014, 11:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/downton-abbey-s4-spoiler-free-until-broadcast-in-the-u-s/651844/321 "2014-02-03T11:48:15Z")
> [@Sarabellum1976](#): > > And if Edith seemed to have trouble finding a husband, imagine the next generation crop of Downton kids! Hehe. It will be like the revival of _Dallas_, with the next generation of Ewings. Am I correct that we still don’t know exactly what hold Thomas Barrow has over Baxter? I wince during those scenes when Cora and someone talk about personal matters in front of Baxter. And Cora admonishing her that “nothing should leave this room” struck me as completely off-base. If the mistress had any question about her maid’s discretion, that maid would be out the door. The mistress could be wrong, as she was about O’Brien’s trustworthiness, but I can’t imagine keeping someone on whom she felt she need to TELL to keep her mouth shut. Speaking of revivals, I think the gradual revival of Isobel is being portrayed quite realistically. I loved the scene where she, Mary, and Tom all talked about what it felt like to be in love. Anna and Bates are stalled again, not unlike that whole season when he was in jail. ---
**Author:** ![leahcim](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/b4bc9f/32.png) [@leahcim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/leahcim)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2014, 3:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/downton-abbey-s4-spoiler-free-until-broadcast-in-the-u-s/651844/322 "2014-02-03T15:21:36Z")
> [@ThelmaLou](#): > > I wince during those scenes when Cora and someone talk about personal matters in front of Baxter. And Cora admonishing her that “nothing should leave this room” struck me as completely off-base. If the mistress had any question about her maid’s discretion, that maid would be out the door. The mistress could be wrong, as she was about O’Brien’s trustworthiness, but I can’t imagine keeping someone on whom she felt she need to TELL to keep her mouth shut. The problem I have is that every time she says the word “Baxter”, I imagine Ron Burgundy in place of Cora talking to his [dog](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DkWlN7ABVAs). ---
**Author:** ![freckafree](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/freckafree/32/3050_2.png) [@freckafree](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/freckafree)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2014, 4:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/downton-abbey-s4-spoiler-free-until-broadcast-in-the-u-s/651844/323 "2014-02-03T16:55:09Z")
I couldn’t read fast enough. Did the letter Edith received confirm that she’s pregnant? I only got as far as “results of your consultation” before the camera cut away from it. ---
**Author:** ![Sarabellum](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sarabellum/32/3492_2.png) [@Sarabellum](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sarabellum)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2014, 4:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/downton-abbey-s4-spoiler-free-until-broadcast-in-the-u-s/651844/324 "2014-02-03T16:59:09Z")
I didn’t manage to read the entire letter either, but I’m fairly sure it said something along the lines of her symptoms being consistent with her being in the first trimester of pregnancy. ---
**Author:** ![DMark](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e68b1a/32.png) [@DMark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DMark)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2014, 5:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/downton-abbey-s4-spoiler-free-until-broadcast-in-the-u-s/651844/325 "2014-02-03T17:00:39Z")
I thought it was interesting that Tom finally explained his potential move to the USA. Nobody in “the upper crust” would be interested in marrying him, and the household probably wouldn’t be thrilled with the local farm girl. If he did go to the US, perhaps he could marry a rich heiress and then return to Downton with at least some bucks to back up his status. ---
**Author:** ![jsc1953](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/5daacb/32.png) [@jsc1953](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jsc1953)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2014, 5:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/downton-abbey-s4-spoiler-free-until-broadcast-in-the-u-s/651844/326 "2014-02-03T17:13:01Z")
> [@freckafree](#): > > I couldn’t read fast enough. Did the letter Edith received confirm that she’s pregnant? I only got as far as “results of your consultation” before the camera cut away from it. My god…people without DVR’s. Let’s start a telethon. 😉 Yes, it said “your symptoms are consistent with first-trimester pregnancy.” ---
**Author:** ![delphica](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e9a140/32.png) [@delphica](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/delphica)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2014, 5:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/downton-abbey-s4-spoiler-free-until-broadcast-in-the-u-s/651844/327 "2014-02-03T17:48:05Z")
I’m sure Tom could marry a non-titled person with a modest income – let’s say, the daughter of an Oxford Don, or a minister’s daughter. A match like that would be somewhat unusual, but not unheard of, for the Crawley’s set. It wouldn’t be a _scandal_. And it would be perfectly fine for the manager of an estate, which he is. Of course, as Isobel pointed out, it’s also a matter of a vicar’s or don’s daughter wanting to marry him … but I think they presented it too much as an “all or nothing” situation. I did like that scene in the nursery though, it was very sweet. I would imagine, though, Sybbie already has something she calls Cora (Granny or whatever) so that part is probably already set for um, what’s Mary’s baby’s name? George? And Isobel can then pick something else for herself. Isn’t that rather a rule – the first grandchild sets the name for Grandma and everyone else who comes later usually falls in line? I’m not thrilled about the Bates/Anna story. Bates is actively moping around! How is that helpful? I think it’s really shitty of him to make a big declaration about what happened doesn’t change his feelings for her … but then he completely changes the way he acts around her. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2014, 5:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/downton-abbey-s4-spoiler-free-until-broadcast-in-the-u-s/651844/328 "2014-02-03T17:48:18Z")
> [@Sarabellum1976](#): > > Poor Edith. Any time she takes a risk, she is doomed to instant, life-haunting humiliation. Maybe Sir Strallon will change his mind and marry her to give the baby a name, and give his ancient self an heir? She could marry Thomas and go to America to hide the timeline. Keep it all in the family. ---
**Author:** ![InsomniaMama](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/ad7895/32.png) [@InsomniaMama](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/InsomniaMama)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2014, 6:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/downton-abbey-s4-spoiler-free-until-broadcast-in-the-u-s/651844/329 "2014-02-03T18:16:19Z")
I’m so confused. Did I somehow watch the wrong episode online? Are you all talking about the episode with the pigs and the mud? What scene in the nursery? ---
**Author:** ![John\_Bredin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/96bed5/32.png) [@John\_Bredin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Bredin)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2014, 6:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/downton-abbey-s4-spoiler-free-until-broadcast-in-the-u-s/651844/330 "2014-02-03T18:24:48Z")
No comments on Cora’s brother getting sucked into the Teapot Dome scandal? I thought Robert was being overly smug about it considering his track record until he name-dropped “Senator Fall.” At least the Grand Trunk Railway was an honest enterprise, Teapot Dome wasn’t. 😉 Also no comments on Carson having to be dragooned into giving Molesley the job he gleefully pulled away last episode like Lucy with a football. 😃 Also surprised how much of a relative non-issue it was that bandleader Jack Ross was black, at least “upstairs”. With one exception, everyone reacted to him as a musician – they either approved of or didn’t approve of jazz music, not him. The exception seemed to be Edith: her disapproval was readily picked up on by Violet, but she attributed it to Edith being “provincial.” But IMHO there’s been too many clues this season that she isn’t, which leaves … ☹ [QUOTE=delphica] I’m sure Tom could marry a non-titled person with a modest income – let’s say, the daughter of an Oxford Don, or a minister’s daughter. A match like that would be somewhat unusual, but not unheard of, for the Crawley’s set. It wouldn’t be a scandal. And it would be perfectly fine for the manager of an estate, which he is. [/QUOTE] Yep, my thought when he made this little exposition was “fallacy of the excluded middle … class.” 😛 Maybe his socialism makes him think in terms of the toiling proles vs. the privileged bourgeoisie and forget all those people in the middle. [QUOTE=Magiver] She could marry Thomas and go to America to hide the timeline. Keep it all in the family. [/QUOTE] (I presume by Thomas you mean Tom Branson, not Thomas Barrow. If not, 😕) Nope, Edith (1) can’t be allowed happiness, and (2) has to have even more reason to dislike and snipe at Mary. 😛 IMHO they’ve been setting up a Tom-Mary double-rebound marriage this season. Tom’s marriage conversation at dinner hinted at this: wasn’t there dialogue along the lines of “Can’t you marry another Earl’s daughter?” “No, she wouldn’t.” It probably was the general “she” but it sounded a little like he had a particular “she” in mind. ---
**Author:** ![delphica](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e9a140/32.png) [@delphica](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/delphica)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2014, 6:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/downton-abbey-s4-spoiler-free-until-broadcast-in-the-u-s/651844/331 "2014-02-03T18:32:05Z")
> [@John\_Bredin](#): > > The exception seemed to be Edith: her disapproval was readily picked up on by Violet, but she attributed it to Edith being “provincial.” But IMHO there’s been too many clues this season that she isn’t, which leaves … ☹ The only thing I could think on this, which also struck me as odd, is that her reaction is supposed to point to being irrational, snippy, and overly emotional due to her pregnancy. I think she might also be feeling put upon … that everyone else gets away with things and has fun doing it, while Edith continues to get the short end of the stick every time. ---
**Author:** ![ThelmaLou](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thelmalou/32/390_2.png) [@ThelmaLou](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ThelmaLou)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2014, 6:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/downton-abbey-s4-spoiler-free-until-broadcast-in-the-u-s/651844/332 "2014-02-03T18:53:29Z")
> [@InsomniaMama](#): > > I’m so confused. Did I somehow watch the wrong episode online? Are you all talking about the episode with the pigs and the mud? What scene in the nursery? I think you must be ahead of us. They’re still just \*talking \*about pigs at this point. I alluded to the scene in the nursery here: > [@ThelmaLou](#): > > I loved the scene [in the nursery] where she [Isobel], Mary, and Tom all talked about what it felt like to be in love. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2014, 7:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/downton-abbey-s4-spoiler-free-until-broadcast-in-the-u-s/651844/333 "2014-02-03T19:07:34Z")
> [@John\_Bredin](#): > > (I presume by Thomas you mean Tom Branson, not Thomas Barrow. If not, 😕) Nope, Edith (1) can’t be allowed happiness, and (2) has to have even more reason to dislike and snipe at Mary. 😛 IMHO they’ve been setting up a Tom-Mary double-rebound marriage this season. Tom’s marriage conversation at dinner hinted at this: wasn’t there dialogue along the lines of “Can’t you marry another Earl’s daughter?” “No, she wouldn’t.” It probably was the general “she” but it sounded a little like he had a particular “she” in mind. maybe from a 21st century soap opera story line but an early 20th century situation would dictate a marriage of convenience which they actually talk about in the story line last season. Remember the Scottish family they vacationed with? And it’s certainly consistent with a soap opera because it naturally lends itself to affairs of the heart. And yes, Tom Branson. ---
**Author:** ![InsomniaMama](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/ad7895/32.png) [@InsomniaMama](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/InsomniaMama)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2014, 7:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/downton-abbey-s4-spoiler-free-until-broadcast-in-the-u-s/651844/334 "2014-02-03T19:35:16Z")
> [@ThelmaLou](#): > > I think you must be ahead of us. They’re still just \*talking \*about pigs at this point. > > I alluded to the scene in the nursery here: How odd! I watched it online on [pbs.org](http://pbs.org) this morning. Looks like they’ve fixed it now. I guess I watched episode 6 and didn’t see 5 yet. Sorry about the spoiler, everyone. Um, they get some pigs. I hope that doesn’t ruin the whole story arc for anyone. 🙂 I’m getting out of this thread before I pre-spoiler myself on episode 5… ---
**Author:** ![Eyebrows\_0f\_Doom](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eyebrows_0f_doom/32/3119_2.png) [@Eyebrows\_0f\_Doom](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eyebrows_0f_Doom)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2014, 7:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/downton-abbey-s4-spoiler-free-until-broadcast-in-the-u-s/651844/335 "2014-02-03T19:49:24Z")
> [@InsomniaMama](#): > > I’m so confused. Did I somehow watch the wrong episode online? Are you all talking about the episode with the pigs and the mud? What scene in the nursery? PBS posted the wrong episode on their website. ---
**Author:** ![freckafree](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/freckafree/32/3050_2.png) [@freckafree](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/freckafree)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2014, 8:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/downton-abbey-s4-spoiler-free-until-broadcast-in-the-u-s/651844/336 "2014-02-03T20:39:07Z")
> [@jsc1953](#): > > My god…people without DVR’s. Let’s start a telethon. ; Won’t you please help? For just a few cents a day, you can help a poor DVR-less Doper keep up with the water cooler conversation. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![AskNott](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asknott/32/5790_2.png) [@AskNott](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AskNott)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2014, 9:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/downton-abbey-s4-spoiler-free-until-broadcast-in-the-u-s/651844/337 "2014-02-03T21:36:29Z")
I keep imagining a little coffee shop called Downtown Abby’s. ---
**Author:** ![ThelmaLou](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thelmalou/32/390_2.png) [@ThelmaLou](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ThelmaLou)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2014, 11:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/downton-abbey-s4-spoiler-free-until-broadcast-in-the-u-s/651844/338 "2014-02-03T23:10:12Z")
Or Downtown Abby could be a character in a Damon Runyon story. You’ll find her at the track with Nathan Detroit and Nicely-Nicely Jones. ---
**Author:** ![Sarabellum](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sarabellum/32/3492_2.png) [@Sarabellum](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sarabellum)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2014, 1:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/downton-abbey-s4-spoiler-free-until-broadcast-in-the-u-s/651844/339 "2014-02-04T01:38:36Z")
> [@John\_Bredin](#): > > No comments on Cora’s brother getting sucked into the Teapot Dome scandal? I thought Robert was being overly smug about it considering his track record until he name-dropped “Senator Fall.” At least the Grand Trunk Railway was an honest enterprise, Teapot Dome wasn’t. 😉 Also no comments on Carson having to be dragooned into giving Molesley the job he gleefully pulled away last episode like Lucy with a football. 😃 > > Also surprised how much of a relative non-issue it was that bandleader Jack Ross was black, at least “upstairs”. With one exception, everyone reacted to him as a musician – they either approved of or didn’t approve of jazz music, not him. The exception seemed to be Edith: her disapproval was readily picked up on by Violet, but she attributed it to Edith being “provincial.” But IMHO there’s been too many clues this season that she isn’t, which leaves … ☹ > > Yep, my thought when he made this little exposition was “fallacy of the excluded middle … class.” 😛 Maybe his socialism makes him think in terms of the toiling proles vs. the privileged bourgeoisie and forget all those people in the middle. > > (I presume by Thomas you mean Tom Branson, not Thomas Barrow. If not, 😕) Nope, Edith (1) can’t be allowed happiness, and (2) has to have even more reason to dislike and snipe at Mary. 😛 IMHO they’ve been setting up a Tom-Mary double-rebound marriage this season. Tom’s marriage conversation at dinner hinted at this: wasn’t there dialogue along the lines of “Can’t you marry another Earl’s daughter?” “No, she wouldn’t.” It probably was the general “she” but it sounded a little like he had a particular “she” in mind. Well, Mary will never be Countess of Grantham now, but I think she’ll remarry someone with a title. I think she feels that she deserves one. I think a pity marriage between Edith and Tom is more likely, but still not likely. Not in keeping with Tom’s character. ---
**Author:** ![alphaboi867](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alphaboi867/32/3898_2.png) [@alphaboi867](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/alphaboi867)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2014, 2:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/downton-abbey-s4-spoiler-free-until-broadcast-in-the-u-s/651844/340 "2014-02-04T02:00:38Z")
> [@Sarabellum1976](#): > > …I think a pity marriage between Edith and Tom is more likely, but still not likely. Not in keeping with Tom’s character. It’s very unlikely, and would also be _incest_ under English law at the time. They’d either have to marry abroad, or get a private act of Parliament giving them special dispensation. [QUOTE=LavenderBlue] …Lady Mary has found someone who dislikes her because of her class assumptions. It’s about time… [/QUOTE] It’s not the first time this has happened. 😉 [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/downton-abbey-s4-spoiler-free-until-broadcast-in-the-u-s/651844.md?page=16) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/downton-abbey-s4-spoiler-free-until-broadcast-in-the-u-s/651844.md?page=18)