# Downton Abbey S4 - spoiler-free until broadcast in the U.S. **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [March 2, 2013, 7:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/downton-abbey-s4-spoiler-free-until-broadcast-in-the-u-s/651844 "2013-03-02T19:48:15Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 20
**Author:** ![jsc1953](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/5daacb/32.png) [@jsc1953](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jsc1953)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2014, 8:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/downton-abbey-s4-spoiler-free-until-broadcast-in-the-u-s/651844/381 "2014-02-05T20:21:09Z")
The finale is February 23. Already?? ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2014, 8:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/downton-abbey-s4-spoiler-free-until-broadcast-in-the-u-s/651844/382 "2014-02-05T20:32:47Z")
Three more this season, then? Damn. ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2014, 8:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/downton-abbey-s4-spoiler-free-until-broadcast-in-the-u-s/651844/383 "2014-02-05T20:57:08Z")
> [@LavenderBlue](#): > > Very possibly. I wonder if the fact that Moseley is local is influencing his decisions. He has to show the locals who’s really in charge when they apply for a job at Downton. Hard to say - the locals have seen Mosely mending the roads and delivering for the grocer, so they pretty much know how desperate he is. Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![Dewey\_Finn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dewey_finn/32/4222_2.png) [@Dewey\_Finn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dewey_Finn)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2014, 9:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/downton-abbey-s4-spoiler-free-until-broadcast-in-the-u-s/651844/384 "2014-02-05T21:36:18Z")
> [@LavenderBlue](#): > > I wonder if the fact that Moseley is local is influencing his decisions. He has to show the locals who’s really in charge when they apply for a job at Downton. I don’t think that was the reason for Carson. From his point of view, he was doing something nice by offering the footman position to Molesley (whom he knows has been reduced to manual labor) only to have Molesley tell him, “Well, I don’t know if I want to lower myself to that level, after I’ve been trained as a butler.” So now he’s thinking, “Screw it, I can find someone else to serve as footman.” And really, he can find any number of men or boys to do the job. (BTW, I read somewhere that a house that size would really have had about eight footmen.) ---
**Author:** ![TruCelt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/trucelt/32/523_2.png) [@TruCelt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TruCelt)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2014, 9:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/downton-abbey-s4-spoiler-free-until-broadcast-in-the-u-s/651844/385 "2014-02-05T21:39:49Z")
RE Alfred: It was also odd for him to be attempting to praise or give a reference for someone who outranked him. (Carson.) It’s a bit like a young busboy praising the Executive Chef to the Restaurateur. They both presumably know how he’s doing, and judge by far higher criteria than he. ---
**Author:** ![StGermain](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/stgermain/32/2868_2.png) [@StGermain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/StGermain)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2014, 10:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/downton-abbey-s4-spoiler-free-until-broadcast-in-the-u-s/651844/386 "2014-02-05T22:57:13Z")
> [@Dewey\_Finn](#): > > I don’t think that was the reason for Carson. From his point of view, he was doing something nice by offering the footman position to Molesley (whom he knows has been reduced to manual labor) only to have Molesley tell him, “Well, I don’t know if I want to lower myself to that level, after I’ve been trained as a butler.” So now he’s thinking, “Screw it, I can find someone else to serve as footman.” And really, he can find any number of men or boys to do the job. (BTW, I read somewhere that a house that size would really have had about eight footmen.) It’s also true that footmen were often hired because they “fit the uniform” so to speak. Young, attractive, tall (but not too tall). They were the most visible part of the household staff. Hiring Molesly was like buying a used Sentra when all the rest of your cars were 2014 Mercedes or Rolls Royces. StG ---
**Author:** ![alphaboi867](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alphaboi867/32/3898_2.png) [@alphaboi867](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/alphaboi867)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2014, 12:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/downton-abbey-s4-spoiler-free-until-broadcast-in-the-u-s/651844/387 "2014-02-06T00:28:19Z")
> [@Miss\_Woodhouse](#): > > Not all farmers were tenants but most of them were. There were farmers who owned their own farms, some were smaller and some were larger. Remember William Mason’s father owned his little farm and offered to give it to Daisy when he died. Obviously, it was small enough that his son felt he needed to go into service in order to have something to live on. There were also larger farms and the owners of them were often considered either gentry or just below gentry class depending on the size of the farm, how many generations had owned it, and what it’s income was. Mason doesn’t actually own his farm; he’s a tenant just like the others. He was offering Daisy the tenancy; he even said that widows often take over tenancies and they wouldn’t refuse Daisy because she was so well liked at the Abbey. Tenancies were passed down through families just like apartments in NYC (well technically it’s the other way around ;)). > [@StGermain](#): > > It’s also true that footmen were often hired because they “fit the uniform” so to speak. Young, attractive, tall (but not too tall). They were the most visible part of the household staff. Hiring Molesly was like buying a used Sentra when all the rest of your cars were 2014 Mercedes or Rolls Royces. > > StG Yep, footmen were primarily eye candy. Jimmy may be an ass, but he’s damn fine eye candy. I’m still pissed at Fellowes for making him straight. :mad: ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2014, 1:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/downton-abbey-s4-spoiler-free-until-broadcast-in-the-u-s/651844/388 "2014-02-06T01:11:59Z")
Although Carson enjoyed putting Molesly in his place a little bit too much before (re)hiring him, I can quite understand why the butler might prefer to have someone younger, more motivated and happy to have the job, rather than someone older who feels he’s reluctantly lowering himself to fill it. > [@Dewey\_Finn](#): > > … (BTW, I read somewhere that a house that size would really have had about eight footmen.) I read the same. It was said, IIRC, by the historical expert on early 20th C. British country-house life that the DA production staff regularly consults. He said he understood why, for dramatic purposes, there isn’t a bigger staff - it’s often hard enough to follow the large cast as is. ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2014, 8:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/downton-abbey-s4-spoiler-free-until-broadcast-in-the-u-s/651844/389 "2014-02-06T20:55:01Z")
The actress who played Lady Sybil has a new movie coming out: [![](https://img.youtube.com/vi/DBSj1MKwx6A/maxresdefault.jpg "Winter's Tale - Official Trailer [HD]") ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DBSj1MKwx6A) > **[Winter's Tale (film)](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Winter%27s_Tale_(film))** > > Winter's Tale (released in the United Kingdom and Ireland as A New York Winter's Tale) is a 2014 American romantic fantasy film based on the 1983 novel Winter's Tale by Mark Helprin. The film is written, produced and directed by Akiva Goldsman (in his directorial debut). It stars Colin Farrell, Jessica Brown Findlay, Jennifer Connelly, William Hurt, Eva Marie Saint (in her final film role before retirement), Russell Crowe and Will Smith. Winter's Tale premiered at London on February 13 and The... ---
**Author:** ![amarinth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/3be4f8/32.png) [@amarinth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/amarinth)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2014, 10:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/downton-abbey-s4-spoiler-free-until-broadcast-in-the-u-s/651844/390 "2014-02-06T22:44:50Z")
> [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](#): > > The actress who played Lady Sybil has a new movie coming out: > > [http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DBSj1MKwx6A](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DBSj1MKwx6A) > [Winter's Tale (film) - Wikipedia](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Winter%27s_Tale_(film)) That’s who that is! I’ve been seeing that commercial and kept thinking that the actress looked kind of familiar, but the movie looks kind of terrible and I wasn’t interested enough to try to figure out who it was. ---
**Author:** ![Tangent](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tangent/32/3098_2.png) [@Tangent](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tangent)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2014, 11:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/downton-abbey-s4-spoiler-free-until-broadcast-in-the-u-s/651844/391 "2014-02-06T23:53:51Z")
And the actress who plays Mary is in the new Liam Neeson movie that comes out in a couple weeks. [Non-Stop](http://www.imdb.com/title/tt2024469/?ref_=nv_sr_1) ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2014, 2:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/downton-abbey-s4-spoiler-free-until-broadcast-in-the-u-s/651844/392 "2014-02-07T02:01:49Z")
> [@amarinth](#): > > That’s who that is! > I’ve been seeing that commercial and kept thinking that the actress looked kind of familiar, but the movie looks kind of terrible and I wasn’t interested enough to try to figure out who it was. A friend of mine joked, “She’s going to be typecast as the doomed high-born gal who falls in love with an inappropriate Irishman.” ---
**Author:** ![Alex\_from\_CB](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/278dde/32.png) [@Alex\_from\_CB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alex_from_CB)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2014, 5:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/downton-abbey-s4-spoiler-free-until-broadcast-in-the-u-s/651844/393 "2014-02-07T17:44:16Z")
“So what do people (who didn’t watch ahead accidentally) think has happened to Edith’s man? Seems likely that an actual tragedy or misadventure has befallen him, rather than just that he got to sleep with her and is now avoiding her because he’s a cad…” I predicted weeks ago that he’d get swept up with the Nazi Party folks in Munchen. ---
**Author:** ![hajario](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hajario/32/171_2.png) [@hajario](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hajario)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2014, 5:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/downton-abbey-s4-spoiler-free-until-broadcast-in-the-u-s/651844/394 "2014-02-07T17:47:47Z")
> [@Alex\_from\_CB](#): > > “So what do people (who didn’t watch ahead accidentally) think has happened to Edith’s man? Seems likely that an actual tragedy or misadventure has befallen him, rather than just that he got to sleep with her and is now avoiding her because he’s a cad…” > I predicted weeks ago that he’d get swept up with the Nazi Party folks in Munchen. It’ll somehow all be a big misunderstanding. True to soap opera form, I predict in a hospital as John Doe unconscious or with amnesia. ---
**Author:** ![ThelmaLou](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thelmalou/32/390_2.png) [@ThelmaLou](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ThelmaLou)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2014, 6:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/downton-abbey-s4-spoiler-free-until-broadcast-in-the-u-s/651844/395 "2014-02-07T18:57:23Z")
> [@hajario](#): > > It’ll somehow all be a big misunderstanding. True to soap opera form, I predict in a hospital as John Doe unconscious or with amnesia. I expect something along these lines, too. Didn’t that happen with Matthew or someone in a previous season? Although it would be pretty darned interesting if she’s at the movies and in a newsreel sees her boyfriend up on the podium next to _Der Führer_. Hmmm… she passes out and goes into premature labor and the baby is born on the floor of the movie theater. Jimmy and a new housemaid (“easier” than Ivy) are making out in the back \*row \*and observe the _row_. They don’t reveal their presence but rush back to Downton and spill the beans to everyone assembled in the kitchen. And THAT’S the first time the Crawleys find out Edith was pregnant. Except she has already gone downstairs and confided in Mrs. Hughes, the Repository of All Secrets. (I haven’t read ahead. I’m making all of this up. In case that’s not obvious.) ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2014, 8:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/downton-abbey-s4-spoiler-free-until-broadcast-in-the-u-s/651844/396 "2014-02-07T20:12:22Z")
> [@ThelmaLou](#): > > I expect something along these lines, too. Didn’t that happen with Matthew or someone in a previous season?.. IIRC there was a badly-scarred officer in the house when it was a hospital during WWI who told Edith he was the surviving Crawley heir, who had suffered amnesia after being saved from the _Titanic_ disaster, and only just recently remembered who he really was. Edith was a little doubtful; he left (or was transferred?) before his claim could be confirmed. We never really found out if he was telling the truth or not. ---
**Author:** ![ThelmaLou](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thelmalou/32/390_2.png) [@ThelmaLou](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ThelmaLou)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2014, 11:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/downton-abbey-s4-spoiler-free-until-broadcast-in-the-u-s/651844/397 "2014-02-07T23:16:14Z")
> [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](#): > > IIRC there was a badly-scarred officer in the house when it was a hospital during WWI who told Edith he was the surviving Crawley heir, who had suffered amnesia after being saved from the _Titanic_ disaster, and only just recently remembered who he really was. Edith was a little doubtful; he left (or was transferred?) before his claim could be confirmed. We never really found out if he was telling the truth or not. Wow, you’re right. I had completely forgotten about all of that. But am I totally imagining this… or was Matthew given up for dead at some point and it turned out he was in a hospital somewhere in France. (Maybe I’m getting this mixed up with an other Masterpiece series.) ---
**Author:** ![SpoilerVirgin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/4491bb/32.png) [@SpoilerVirgin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SpoilerVirgin)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2014, 11:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/downton-abbey-s4-spoiler-free-until-broadcast-in-the-u-s/651844/398 "2014-02-07T23:35:30Z")
> [@ThelmaLou](#): > > Wow, you’re right. I had completely forgotten about all of that. > > But am I totally imagining this… or was Matthew given up for dead at some point and it turned out he was in a hospital somewhere in France. (Maybe I’m getting this mixed up with an other Masterpiece series.) Early in Season 2, Matthew and his soldier-servant, William, got lost wandering around France, and there were a tense couple of days while everyone waited for word. It’s not like they were declared dead or anything, but they were missing. In one of my favorite Downton Abbey scenes ever, the missing soldiers showed up at Downton during a concert, to general rejoicing. Shortly thereafter they returned to the front, and ended up both being severely injured, and being brought back to Downton/the local hospital to recuperate (or not). ---
**Author:** ![John\_Bredin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/96bed5/32.png) [@John\_Bredin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Bredin)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2014, 11:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/downton-abbey-s4-spoiler-free-until-broadcast-in-the-u-s/651844/399 "2014-02-07T23:42:08Z")
> [@ThelmaLou](#): > > But am I totally imagining this… or was Matthew given up for dead at some point and it turned out he was in a hospital somewhere in France. (Maybe I’m getting this mixed up with an other Masterpiece series.) Almost. 🙂 While Matthew was in France, he and footman William were: 1. missing for some time (a few days, IIRC) while on a routine patrol, but both came back safe and sound. 2. wounded by an explosion while crossing no-man’s-land for an attack, William fatally and Matthew severely. But those were two different occasions, in two different episodes. :eek: Dammit, spoiled by **SpoilerVirgin**! 😛 ---
**Author:** ![ThelmaLou](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thelmalou/32/390_2.png) [@ThelmaLou](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ThelmaLou)\ **Post date:** [February 8, 2014, 1:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/downton-abbey-s4-spoiler-free-until-broadcast-in-the-u-s/651844/400 "2014-02-08T01:23:59Z")
Thanks y’all, for supplying those missing brain cells. 😃 [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/downton-abbey-s4-spoiler-free-until-broadcast-in-the-u-s/651844.md?page=19) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/downton-abbey-s4-spoiler-free-until-broadcast-in-the-u-s/651844.md?page=21)