# Downton Abbey S4 - spoiler-free until broadcast in the U.S. **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [March 2, 2013, 7:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/downton-abbey-s4-spoiler-free-until-broadcast-in-the-u-s/651844 "2013-03-02T19:48:15Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 25
**Author:** ![Sam\_Stone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Sam\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sam_Stone)\ **Post date:** [February 17, 2014, 11:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/downton-abbey-s4-spoiler-free-until-broadcast-in-the-u-s/651844/481 "2014-02-17T23:17:52Z")
> [@Chefguy](#): > > Some questions and comments: Anybody else suspect that Mary’s two suitors will turn out to be poofs (to use the vernacular of the day)? Most distressing that we’re going to have to see Shirley Maclaine again next week; she’s nowhere near the caliber of Maggie Smith in the role of cranky dowager. So is Olive Oyl actually going to Switzerland? And why is it that all the women in this series are shapeless sticks? Corsets? Breast binding? Director’s obsession with women who look like little boys? I am truly glad that the stupid subplot with Daisy, et al, is finished. Go look at some pictures of high society in the 1920’s. Being skinny was all the rage. And yes, corsets and breast binding were used as necessary to get the look, even though they’d then cover their bodies in shapeless gowns because the ‘look’ was somewhat androgynous. Dieting was a huge fad in the 1920’s. The trend towards skinniness started even earlier among the royalty. Wasp waists were all the rage for decades before, with Victorian women being bound into corsets so tight that fainting or physical collapse was not uncommon. ---
**Author:** ![alphaboi867](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alphaboi867/32/3898_2.png) [@alphaboi867](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/alphaboi867)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2014, 12:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/downton-abbey-s4-spoiler-free-until-broadcast-in-the-u-s/651844/482 "2014-02-18T00:56:06Z")
> [@Ellen\_Cherry](#): > > I thought Edith should go abroad with Rosamund and _pretend_ to find Gregson and marry him, and then come back home and announce she’s pregnant. Rosamund is lined up declare that, yes, she witnessed the marriage — and then it would be easy enough to make up some story about babydaddy staying in Switzerland to … do something. And if he shows up for reals, surely he’d go along with the story since presumably he does want to marry her. Unless he’s hiding from her now! :D… Except he already has a wife in England; Edith was able to find that out with a simple phone call, and the only reason parents still don’t know is because it hasn’t occurred to either of them to check him out. > [@Eyebrows\_0f\_Doom](#): > > Well the first episode took place in April 1912 and this last episode was set sometime in the summer/early fall of 1922 so it’s been over ten years since we first met the inhabitants of Downton. (There is no way any of those characters look ten years older btw! The time jumps are really becoming problematic, especially with the next episode skipping forward a year to the summer of 1923!) It’s still nowhere nearly as bad as **Upstairs, Downstairs**. > [@FeAudrey](#): > > …b) passing off the kid as her mother’s (Cora is mid-fifties by now, so little hope of pulling off that one)… In addition it would cause _huge_ problems if they did that and Edith were to have a boy. > [@Chefguy](#): > > …And why is it that all the women in this series are shapeless sticks? Corsets? Breast binding? Director’s obsession with women who look like little boys? I am truly glad that the stupid subplot with Daisy, et al, is finished. That was the fashion in the '20s, and Rose is the most into flapper fashion. I predict she’ll be in full bright young thing mode by next series and in to all the latest fads (like Egyptology or cocaine). ---
**Author:** ![jimbuff314](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/c57346/32.png) [@jimbuff314](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jimbuff314)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2014, 1:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/downton-abbey-s4-spoiler-free-until-broadcast-in-the-u-s/651844/483 "2014-02-18T01:46:42Z")
> [@IvoryTowerDenizen](#): > > She’s been pretty sheltered in those 5 years or so. I wonder how many times total she’s even left the house in those years. Dunno about “sheltered”. She kinda looks preggers to me. (_Ducks_) ---
**Author:** ![IvoryTowerDenizen](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ivorytowerdenizen/32/17937_2.png) [@IvoryTowerDenizen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/IvoryTowerDenizen)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2014, 1:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/downton-abbey-s4-spoiler-free-until-broadcast-in-the-u-s/651844/484 "2014-02-18T01:48:15Z")
> [@jimbuff314](#): > > Dunno about “sheltered”. She kinda looks preggers to me. (_Ducks_) Nooooooooo! ---
**Author:** ![ThelmaLou](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thelmalou/32/390_2.png) [@ThelmaLou](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ThelmaLou)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2014, 2:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/downton-abbey-s4-spoiler-free-until-broadcast-in-the-u-s/651844/485 "2014-02-18T02:06:13Z")
Before the Switzerland idea came up, where was Edith planning to have the baby? I guess she could have it in Mrs. Hughes’ room where all secrets reside. Since the upstairs people rarely come down, it could be raised by the household staff and none of the Crawleys would be the wiser. I think the baby should take its place in the nursery with Sybbie and George. If she lets the pig man raise it (is he even married?) it will drive her and the rest of us crazy to see him turn into a farmboy when he could grow up and wear nice clothes and go to Oxford or Eton or one of those fancy-schmancy places. _I_ for one do not want to see that. He would grow up not knowing what fork to use, for fuck’s sake! I want Daisy to hook up with her father-in-law. He is the nicest man she knows. He’s prolly only mid-40’s. That’s not very old, even then. ---
**Author:** ![Dewey\_Finn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dewey_finn/32/4222_2.png) [@Dewey\_Finn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dewey_Finn)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2014, 2:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/downton-abbey-s4-spoiler-free-until-broadcast-in-the-u-s/651844/486 "2014-02-18T02:18:38Z")
By the way, was the pig man (Mr Drew) the same farmer to whom Robert lent fifty pounds? ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2014, 3:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/downton-abbey-s4-spoiler-free-until-broadcast-in-the-u-s/651844/487 "2014-02-18T03:15:56Z")
> [@Dewey\_Finn](#): > > By the way, was the pig man (Mr Drew) the same farmer to whom Robert lent fifty pounds? Yes? (forgets what he looked like). He mentioned how the family had been good to him before and that he owed them. ---
**Author:** ![delphica](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e9a140/32.png) [@delphica](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/delphica)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2014, 3:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/downton-abbey-s4-spoiler-free-until-broadcast-in-the-u-s/651844/488 "2014-02-18T15:28:39Z")
This is minor, but I was surprised by the scene where Mary’s godfather somewhat clumsily asks Isobel if her son stopped practicing law when she uses the past tense to describe him. Even if he doesn’t know her from Adam, pretty much EVERYONE VAGUELY HIS AGE would have had sons who served in the war, and his immediate assumption should have been that her son died in the war. It would have made so much more sense for him to go with that, and then have Isobel need to explain that Matthew survived the war only to be killed by artistic differences. 😉 Okay, that touches upon a larger issue that never seems to come up in the plot – at this point, the characters should still be seeing a lot of impact from the war years. Men who served being disabled or still suffering shell shock (and stigmatized for it), a surfeit of widows across all social classes, or (there’s a term for this that I can’t remember), women who were not married but lost their fiancés and are now locked into spinsterhood at a young age, either through sentiment or because there’s a lack of unattached men (and I guess those unattached men that remain are chasing after Mary). ---
**Author:** ![Ellen\_Cherry](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ellen_cherry/32/3600_2.png) [@Ellen\_Cherry](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ellen_Cherry)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2014, 4:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/downton-abbey-s4-spoiler-free-until-broadcast-in-the-u-s/651844/489 "2014-02-18T16:04:53Z")
Oh the recent unpleasantness? Let’s don’t talk about that. Someone remind me: why is Rose hanging around, being their problem? She was going wild in London, I remember — was she the one that some cab driver waited all day on while she boinked some dude? I know she’s kin to them, that’s why she they’ve taken her in, but why is the presumably odious mother off the hook with her? Why don’t they ship her back home if she’s just going to keep hooking up with suave black men and whatnot. By the way, they uniformly referred to him as “black” throughout the episodes, which someone thought was pejorative, instead of a more polite-for-the-time “negro.” ---
**Author:** ![Dewey\_Finn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dewey_finn/32/4222_2.png) [@Dewey\_Finn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dewey_Finn)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2014, 4:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/downton-abbey-s4-spoiler-free-until-broadcast-in-the-u-s/651844/490 "2014-02-18T16:11:55Z")
Didn’t Rose’s parents move to India and that’s why she’s living with the Crawleys? ---
**Author:** ![IvoryTowerDenizen](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ivorytowerdenizen/32/17937_2.png) [@IvoryTowerDenizen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/IvoryTowerDenizen)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2014, 4:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/downton-abbey-s4-spoiler-free-until-broadcast-in-the-u-s/651844/491 "2014-02-18T16:20:58Z")
> [@Dewey\_Finn](#): > > Didn’t Rose’s parents move to India and that’s why she’s living with the Crawleys? Yes, and that’s where Mrs O’Brian headed to. ---
**Author:** ![Ellen\_Cherry](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ellen_cherry/32/3600_2.png) [@Ellen\_Cherry](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ellen_Cherry)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2014, 5:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/downton-abbey-s4-spoiler-free-until-broadcast-in-the-u-s/651844/492 "2014-02-18T17:02:02Z")
Oh, those people were her parents? :smack: ---
**Author:** ![TruCelt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/trucelt/32/523_2.png) [@TruCelt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TruCelt)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2014, 7:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/downton-abbey-s4-spoiler-free-until-broadcast-in-the-u-s/651844/493 "2014-02-18T19:25:30Z")
I think Daisy’s FIL (Mr. Marsh is it?) ends up with Ms. Patmore. They’ve already been set up as Father and Mother figures to Daisy, and Ms. P is too old to have a child who’d contend with daisy for the inheritance. “And what does Ms. Patmore say?” ---
**Author:** ![Quercus\_alba](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quercus_alba/32/4061_2.png) [@Quercus\_alba](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Quercus_alba)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2014, 1:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/downton-abbey-s4-spoiler-free-until-broadcast-in-the-u-s/651844/494 "2014-02-19T13:29:41Z")
[Episode 7 on Facebook.](http://happyplace.someecards.com/29408/downton-abbey-facebook-recap-season-4-episode-7) ---
**Author:** ![Ellen\_Cherry](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ellen_cherry/32/3600_2.png) [@Ellen\_Cherry](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ellen_Cherry)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2014, 2:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/downton-abbey-s4-spoiler-free-until-broadcast-in-the-u-s/651844/495 "2014-02-19T14:09:45Z")
Hee hee. I tried to hit “Like” on Molesley’s strongman photo. ---
**Author:** ![Fiveyearlurker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/da6949/32.png) [@Fiveyearlurker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fiveyearlurker)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2014, 7:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/downton-abbey-s4-spoiler-free-until-broadcast-in-the-u-s/651844/496 "2014-02-19T19:19:44Z")
> [@Dewey\_Finn](#): > > I’m trying to decide if Bates killed Mr Green. (BTW, does everyone realize that last night’s episode _was_ the season/series finale? Next week’s episode is the Christmas special.) Do we really know for a fact that Bates didn’t kill his ex wife? ---
**Author:** ![GargoyleWB](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gargoylewb/32/199_2.png) [@GargoyleWB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GargoyleWB)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2014, 8:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/downton-abbey-s4-spoiler-free-until-broadcast-in-the-u-s/651844/497 "2014-02-19T20:01:31Z")
Anyone notice how Cora, being disadvantaged by delaying tea and chit chat, obliviously did the bazaar volunteers a “favor” by sending them home and allowing them to come back the next day? I’d be all like “Bitch, there’s only ten tables and a couple of poles left to take down, and you want us all to hike back up here again in the morning and spend another day not getting paid?” God forbid she have to burden herself with laborers being present while she lounges. ---
**Author:** ![jimbuff314](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/c57346/32.png) [@jimbuff314](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jimbuff314)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2014, 9:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/downton-abbey-s4-spoiler-free-until-broadcast-in-the-u-s/651844/498 "2014-02-19T21:01:51Z")
> [@GargoyleWB](#): > > Anyone notice how Cora, being disadvantaged by delaying tea and chit chat, obliviously did the bazaar volunteers a “favor” by sending them home and allowing them to come back the next day? I’d be all like “Bitch, there’s only ten tables and a couple of poles left to take down, and you want us all to hike back up here again in the morning and spend another day not getting paid?” God forbid she have to burden herself with laborers being present while she lounges. Nah, not seein’ it. She’d turn to you, give her one expression of a crooked little smile with her head tilted forward and slightly to the side and you will just melt. ---
**Author:** ![Ellen\_Cherry](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ellen_cherry/32/3600_2.png) [@Ellen\_Cherry](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ellen_Cherry)\ **Post date:** [February 20, 2014, 3:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/downton-abbey-s4-spoiler-free-until-broadcast-in-the-u-s/651844/499 "2014-02-20T15:26:24Z")
I keep wishing she’d stick out her chin a little bit, just for some variety. ---
**Author:** ![Mr\_Downtown](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/8e8cbc/32.png) [@Mr\_Downtown](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr_Downtown)\ **Post date:** [February 24, 2014, 4:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/downton-abbey-s4-spoiler-free-until-broadcast-in-the-u-s/651844/500 "2014-02-24T04:48:37Z")
Really, Julian? A random visitor to Munich in 1923 gets done in by _brownshirts?_ Only a week after pulling Cousin Harold from the clutches of the Teapot Dome scandal? Are you just paging through _Front Pages of the Twentieth Century_ to come up with plot ideas? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/downton-abbey-s4-spoiler-free-until-broadcast-in-the-u-s/651844.md?page=24) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/downton-abbey-s4-spoiler-free-until-broadcast-in-the-u-s/651844.md?page=26)