# Downton Abbey S4 - spoiler-free until broadcast in the U.S. **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [March 2, 2013, 7:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/downton-abbey-s4-spoiler-free-until-broadcast-in-the-u-s/651844 "2013-03-02T19:48:15Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 29
**Author:** ![AuntiePam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/f19dbf/32.png) [@AuntiePam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AuntiePam)\ **Post date:** [February 26, 2014, 11:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/downton-abbey-s4-spoiler-free-until-broadcast-in-the-u-s/651844/561 "2014-02-26T23:06:30Z")
> [@Sarabellum1976](#): > > And Tom’s choice of new girlfriend seems odd. Not a good choice. And am I the only one that suspects that Thomas is the one feeding her info and controlling the whole situation? I don’t think there’s anything going on with her and Barrow, but I don’t like her. It was interesting though, watching how Tom deals with someone who’s being a bit presumptuous. “Can I see your house?” Please. ---
**Author:** ![Eyebrows\_0f\_Doom](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eyebrows_0f_doom/32/3119_2.png) [@Eyebrows\_0f\_Doom](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eyebrows_0f_Doom)\ **Post date:** [February 26, 2014, 11:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/downton-abbey-s4-spoiler-free-until-broadcast-in-the-u-s/651844/562 "2014-02-26T23:41:33Z")
> [@Sherrerd](#): > > The idea that Mary’s conscience requires her to say to the authorities _'this servant may have been in London at a time when a man who raped my maid happened to fall under a bus, so…you had better do something about it!!_’ is absurd. What on earth could the authorities do with this information? > > It’s just another implausible manufactured dilemma for inconsistently-drawn characters to unconvincingly agonize over. Plus, she conveniently forgot that it was due to Bates that the scandal of the Turk dying in her bed didn’t become a story in the press. (From when he left with Vera in Season 2 after she threatened to expose the story.) Oh Mary finally mentioned it at the end, but only _after_ Bates pick-pocketed the letter. I was like, Mary, you of all people, should get off your high-horse about revealing information that _might possibly_ relate to a suspicious death. ---
**Author:** ![alphaboi867](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alphaboi867/32/3898_2.png) [@alphaboi867](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/alphaboi867)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2014, 12:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/downton-abbey-s4-spoiler-free-until-broadcast-in-the-u-s/651844/563 "2014-02-27T00:48:13Z")
> [@Sam\_Stone](#): > > Why would being harassed by brown shirts in 1923 be so unbelievable? That was the year of the Munich Beer Hall Putsch… Not to nitpick, but Gregson disappeared in the spring of 192_2_; the Christmas Special was set over a year later in 1923. Not that 1922 was a good year for Germany. Hyperinflation was setting in, Germany’s Jewish foreign minister was assassinated. > [@TruCelt](#): > > Yes, but they and the certificate would be going to America. And no one in England knows about his wife, do they? Weren’t we wondering before whether she might just be a figment? an excuse to avoid marriage? Edith was able to find out Gregson was married with a single phone call. Mrs Gregson isn’t really a secret; it’s just that none of Edith’s relatives bothered look into him. > [@ZPG\_Zealot](#): > > Thomas would have just spun it as “I am telling his lordship discretely for the family’s good, so that they can handle Tom’s indiscretions privately before it becomes a scandal.” Good servants were suppose to guard the family reputation even when individual family members did not. And having the local school teacher over at night when the rest of the family is gone, especially being up on the floor where the bedrooms where, would have been frowned upon if anyone found out. Good point, and we all know how good Thomas is as manipulating the Crawleys. > [@Ellen\_Cherry](#): > > I don’t think he knows Thomas is a jerk. The last he was discussed, they were praising him for reporting on the nanny for mistreating baby Sybil. (That she actually \*was \*was bonus for Thomas, who just hated her because she thought she was better than the other servants.) Thomas didn’t like Nanny West, but I think he really was worried about Sybil. She was after all leaving her charges unattended and he probably observed other oddities about the way she treated Miss Sybil as apposed to Master George. > [@John\_Bredin](#): > > Actually, I think you’ve hit upon a very interesting issue: the risk to _her_ reputation from going to the Abbey alone with Tom is way worse than the potential hit to Tom’s reputation. :smack: IIRC, even in times a lot later than 1923 and places way more sophisticated than Downton village, single female teachers were required to be absolutely above suspicion, to the point where even dating was in some _public/non-religious_ schools a fireable offense. :eek: True, the hit to her reputation would be a lot worse. AFAIK it would be really unusual for the time period if the Downton village school wasn’t attached to the parish church (of which Lord Grantham is patron of). ---
**Author:** ![MaxTheVool](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9fc29f/32.png) [@MaxTheVool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MaxTheVool)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2014, 12:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/downton-abbey-s4-spoiler-free-until-broadcast-in-the-u-s/651844/564 "2014-02-27T00:59:47Z")
> [@Sam\_Stone](#): > > Why would being harassed by brown shirts in 1923 be so unbelievable? I don’t necessarily think it’s unbelievable, I think it’s just obvious in a hilariously silly way. It makes Downton Abbey feel a bit like Forrest Gump, where he just accidentally gets involved in every major news event in (whatever year it is). ---
**Author:** ![Mr\_Downtown](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/8e8cbc/32.png) [@Mr\_Downtown](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr_Downtown)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2014, 5:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/downton-abbey-s4-spoiler-free-until-broadcast-in-the-u-s/651844/565 "2014-02-27T05:03:40Z")
^Yes, next season I expect that Branson, in Ireland to visit relatives, will see a single-engine aeroplane emerge from the mist, and will point Charles Lindbergh southeast toward Paris. ---
**Author:** ![Push\_You\_Down](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/push_you_down/32/9095_2.png) [@Push\_You\_Down](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Push_You_Down)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2014, 11:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/downton-abbey-s4-spoiler-free-until-broadcast-in-the-u-s/651844/566 "2014-02-27T23:51:13Z")
> [@MaxTheVool](#): > > I don’t necessarily think it’s unbelievable, I think it’s just obvious in a hilariously silly way. It makes Downton Abbey feel a bit like Forrest Gump, where he just accidentally gets involved in every major news event in (whatever year it is). Agree. I literally burst out laughing before Edith even finished her line. ---
**Author:** ![jsc1953](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/5daacb/32.png) [@jsc1953](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jsc1953)\ **Post date:** [February 28, 2014, 12:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/downton-abbey-s4-spoiler-free-until-broadcast-in-the-u-s/651844/567 "2014-02-28T00:05:10Z")
> [@Miss\_Woodhouse](#): > > I didn’t see that moment as a suggestion of a romance. I saw it as a rare physical demonstration of their friendship. They are very good friends, but the show has made it clear that is all they will ever be. : I dunno. The moment reminded me very much of an equivalent moment in Upstairs, Downstairs – where Mr Hudson and Mrs Bridges, after several seasons of professional and platonic relationship, discuss in a bolt from the blue their post-employment plans together. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [February 28, 2014, 8:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/downton-abbey-s4-spoiler-free-until-broadcast-in-the-u-s/651844/568 "2014-02-28T08:11:08Z")
> [@Sherrerd](#): > > The idea that Mary’s conscience requires her to say to the authorities _'this servant may have been in London at a time when a man who raped my maid happened to fall under a bus, so…you had better do something about it!!_’ is absurd. What on earth could the authorities do with this information? > > It’s just another implausible manufactured dilemma for inconsistently-drawn characters to unconvincingly agonize over. Very much this. What is the expected response: “so you’re saying your servant was in fact on planet earth when a piece of human debri fell off a curb?”. “thank you m’ lady”.:rolleyes::dubious::smack:😕 …insert the 1925 British version of WTF? ---
**Author:** ![Oslo\_Ostragoth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/a9a28c/32.png) [@Oslo\_Ostragoth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Oslo_Ostragoth)\ **Post date:** [February 28, 2014, 8:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/downton-abbey-s4-spoiler-free-until-broadcast-in-the-u-s/651844/569 "2014-02-28T20:59:33Z")
Not posted yet? Another [Downtown Abbey on Facebook](http://happyplace.someecards.com/29572/downton-abbey-season-4-episode-8-finale-the-london-season-2013-christmas-special-bbc-pbs-recap). ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [February 28, 2014, 10:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/downton-abbey-s4-spoiler-free-until-broadcast-in-the-u-s/651844/570 "2014-02-28T22:01:38Z")
> [@Oslo\_Ostragoth](#): > > Not posted yet? Another [Downtown Abbey on Facebook](http://happyplace.someecards.com/29572/downton-abbey-season-4-episode-8-finale-the-london-season-2013-christmas-special-bbc-pbs-recap). And now my enjoyment of the season is complete. Like. Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![leahcim](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/b4bc9f/32.png) [@leahcim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/leahcim)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2014, 12:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/downton-abbey-s4-spoiler-free-until-broadcast-in-the-u-s/651844/571 "2014-03-01T00:20:38Z")
> [@Sherrerd](#): > > …By the way, has there ever been a plot development that required two characters to be named Thomas (the chauffeur and the footman)? Or is it just that Fellowes likes that name? I think there is somewhere a “Master BBC First Name List” and “Master BBC Last Name List” and writers for BBC shows pick off them at random whenever they need a suitably generic British character name. Like Diceware. There are bound to be collisions every so often. ---
**Author:** ![Dewey\_Finn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dewey_finn/32/4222_2.png) [@Dewey\_Finn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dewey_Finn)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2014, 12:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/downton-abbey-s4-spoiler-free-until-broadcast-in-the-u-s/651844/572 "2014-03-01T00:23:21Z")
Funny, but remember that Downton Abbey was _not_ a BBC production. It was produced by ITV. ---
**Author:** ![leahcim](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/b4bc9f/32.png) [@leahcim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/leahcim)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2014, 2:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/downton-abbey-s4-spoiler-free-until-broadcast-in-the-u-s/651844/573 "2014-03-01T02:55:29Z")
> [@Dewey\_Finn](#): > > Funny, but remember that Downton Abbey was _not_ a BBC production. It was produced by ITV. Details, details. ---
**Author:** ![Sherrerd](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sherrerd/32/8_2.png) [@Sherrerd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sherrerd)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2014, 9:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/downton-abbey-s4-spoiler-free-until-broadcast-in-the-u-s/651844/574 "2014-03-01T21:45:49Z")
> [@Eyebrows\_0f\_Doom](#): > > Plus, she conveniently forgot that it was due to Bates that the scandal of the Turk dying in her bed didn’t become a story in the press. (From when he left with Vera in Season 2 after she threatened to expose the story.) Oh Mary finally mentioned it at the end, but only _after_ Bates pick-pocketed the letter. I was like, Mary, you of all people, should get off your high-horse about revealing information that _might possibly_ relate to a suspicious death. Oops, missed this. Yes, good catch—Mary herself is just as vulnerable on the “_maybe, possibly, something untoward could have happened, that the authorities might, in certain circumstances, potentially consider thinking about designating as being worth a look-see_” score. ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [March 3, 2014, 5:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/downton-abbey-s4-spoiler-free-until-broadcast-in-the-u-s/651844/575 "2014-03-03T17:21:20Z")
> [@Mr\_Downtown](#): > > ^Yes, next season I expect that Branson, in Ireland to visit relatives, will see a single-engine aeroplane emerge from the mist, and will point Charles Lindbergh southeast toward Paris. LOL. Fellowes said early on that he didn’t want to have all sorts of famous people dropping in, but what with Dame Nellie Melba, King George V, Queen Mary, and the Prince of Wales, this season certainly broke that rule. Ethan Slade (I always thought of him as “Jimmy Olson”) was certainly a gee-whiz, pushy and annoying American servant. I liked the scenes inside Buckingham Palace with Lady Rose’s presentation - great decor, uniforms, pomp and circumstance, etc., but the sfx during the drive down the Mall, and also the picnic near the Albert Memorial, looked blurry, gray and fake. I feel sorry for the Swiss couple, regardless of the practices of the day, for their imminent loss of Edith’s daughter. Edith’s taking a big risk with Drewe, the pig farmer, as well. If only the two of them know about this secret deal, what happens if Drewe dies or turns evil? She’d have no way of getting her daughter back. So near and yet so far. I can’t believe Bates wouldn’t discard the damn railway ticket at the first opportunity, or that Anna herself wouldn’t have gone through the pockets and found it before donating the coat. I thought the scene where Lord Grantham was thinking out loud, planning the burglary with the others, was quite funny. Sampson is going to be able to figure out who burgled his flat - the doorman will be able to describe Lady Mary etc. to him. Plus he should be able to put two and two together as to Bates filching the note. Lady Rose and Miss Allsopp were both quite charming and beautiful, I thought. Harold’s (great to see Paul Giamatti, BTW) a fool for fending off the latter. I loved Tom’s glare when Thomas suggested they share the back seat of the car together. If looks could kill! I’ve said it before, but Thomas really would be gone by now - if not for stealing the wine, then for his effrontery in tattling about Tom to Lord Grantham. Nice to see Molesley and the seamstress hitting it off. The references to the Prince of Wales’s future potential scandals were a bit too anvilicious. We know, we know! Just a chamberpot behind a screen at the palace? Ewww. They had indoor plumbing back then. I’ll be sorry to lose Ivy, if she crosses the pond to cook for Mr. Levinson. And a good note to end on, with Carson and Mrs. Hughes wading in the surf. And finally, a nice cast pic: [http://metrouk2.files.wordpress.com/2013/12/downton\_abbey\_christmas\_2013.jpg](http://metrouk2.files.wordpress.com/2013/12/downton_abbey_christmas_2013.jpg) ---
**Author:** ![Lamia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/8e7dd6/32.png) [@Lamia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lamia)\ **Post date:** [March 3, 2014, 6:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/downton-abbey-s4-spoiler-free-until-broadcast-in-the-u-s/651844/576 "2014-03-03T18:21:53Z")
> [@Unauthorized\_Cinnamon](#): > > The worst thing is that I thought of several options other than the abortion/infamy dilemma she was in. First, she should tell Cora. Cora was extremely forgiving and practical when Mary killed that Turk with her vagina, going so far as to physically carry his carcass back to his bedroom. I think she probably would have figured out some way for Edith to have the baby without total social destruction. Maybe there would be a way to make it appear that she married Gregson abroad. If not, send her to America with a story about being widowed or something. I even thought they might enlist Tom, who’s something of a loose end in the family, to marry her and pose as the father. Rosamund’s plan was better than nothing, but it lacked imagination. Edith’s problem hasn’t been just that she’s unmarried and pregnant, but that she doesn’t know if Gregson is alive or dead. If she definitely knew he was dead then she might have considered a quickie marriage to someone else, but if Gregson were to reappear then it would be pretty awful for everyone involved if Edith had married another man. I’m not sure Tom Branson would have been an option even if he were willing. Historically your brother/sister-in-law was legally your brother/sister, so marrying them was incest. That may have changed by the '20s, though. Faking a marriage to Gregson might have worked, except he was already married and anyone who was curious enough to check into his background could have found this out. > [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](#): > > I feel sorry for the Swiss couple, regardless of the practices of the day, for their imminent loss of Edith’s daughter. Edith’s taking a big risk with Drewe, the pig farmer, as well. If only the two of them know about this secret deal, what happens if Drewe dies or turns evil? She’d have no way of getting her daughter back. So near and yet so far. I thought it was kind of sinister when Drewe promised that this would be a secret between him and Edith. While I can see why Edith would want to keep things as discreet as possible, it seems like a nice setup for blackmail. Even if Drewe fully intends to keep his word, his wife might not be too happy if she figures out that the poor orphan child she’s been taking care of is actually Lady Edith’s daughter and could decide that she’s owed something. ---
**Author:** ![SpoilerVirgin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/4491bb/32.png) [@SpoilerVirgin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SpoilerVirgin)\ **Post date:** [March 3, 2014, 9:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/downton-abbey-s4-spoiler-free-until-broadcast-in-the-u-s/651844/577 "2014-03-03T21:15:18Z")
Can’t remember if I learned about it here or somewhere else, but the perfectly named “[Deceased Wife’s Sister’s Marriage Act of 1907](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deceased_Wife%27s_Sister%27s_Marriage_Act_1907)” allowed a man (in the UK) to marry his deceased wife’s sister, which had previously been forbidden by law. ---
**Author:** ![ThelmaLou](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thelmalou/32/390_2.png) [@ThelmaLou](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ThelmaLou)\ **Post date:** [March 3, 2014, 10:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/downton-abbey-s4-spoiler-free-until-broadcast-in-the-u-s/651844/578 "2014-03-03T22:00:17Z")
> [@Lamia](#): > > I thought it was kind of sinister when Drewe promised that this would be a secret between him and Edith. While I can see why Edith would want to keep things as discreet as possible, it seems like a nice setup for blackmail. Even if Drewe fully intends to keep his word, his wife might not be too happy if she figures out that the poor orphan child she’s been taking care of is actually Lady Edith’s daughter and could decide that she’s owed something. Sinister?? Blackmail?? This isn’t Dickens. My God, Drewe was about to burst into tears along with Edith. He’s obviously a man who loves children and was quite sad about her dilemma, which he naturally figured out. I’m surmising his wife is cut from the same cloth as he is. ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [March 3, 2014, 10:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/downton-abbey-s4-spoiler-free-until-broadcast-in-the-u-s/651844/579 "2014-03-03T22:42:31Z")
> [@ThelmaLou](#): > > Sinister?? Blackmail?? This isn’t Dickens. My God, Drewe was about to burst into tears along with Edith. He’s obviously a man who loves children and was quite sad about her dilemma, which he naturally figured out. I’m surmising his wife is cut from the same cloth as he is. IIRC he was the one they loaned the fifty quid to. He would be eager to do something to pay them back. And on a less altruistic note, how are you going to evict him if he falls behind again? Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![Lamia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/8e7dd6/32.png) [@Lamia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lamia)\ **Post date:** [March 3, 2014, 11:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/downton-abbey-s4-spoiler-free-until-broadcast-in-the-u-s/651844/580 "2014-03-03T23:05:41Z")
> [@ThelmaLou](#): > > Sinister?? Blackmail?? This isn’t Dickens. Yes, it’s _Downton Abbey_. I love this show, but it’s never met a melodramatic plot twist it didn’t like, and nothing EVER goes right for Edith. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/downton-abbey-s4-spoiler-free-until-broadcast-in-the-u-s/651844.md?page=28) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/downton-abbey-s4-spoiler-free-until-broadcast-in-the-u-s/651844.md?page=30)