Well, now that the season has ended I can discuss it here, as I first saw the finale when it aired in the UK on Christmas. The first time I saw it, I hated everything about it and thought it was so dull, but seeing it again I found it much more entertaining. There are still unanswered questions that I guess are going to be left for Season 5, such as what Thomas has over Baxter, and the actual answer of Green’s death.
There are* so many* problems with the Bates ticket storyline, the most glaring of which is that there was no date on the ticket! There was absolutely no reason for everyone to assume that it was from the date of Green’s death! And Bates’s line about how he hadn’t been to London since his mother died (in 1916)? Uh, Julian Fellowes, did you forget about that whole “Bates is accused & convicted of murdering his ex-wife who lived in London” thing? You know, when you had characters, in November 1918, saying things like:
*O’BRIEN
You’re always going up and down to London these days, Mr Bates.
MR BATES
I have business in London.
*
:rolleyes:
In addition to that, as Lord Grantham’s valet, he would have accompanied him to London whenever he went up to Grantham House or stayed at his club or whatever!
Who was the woman the Prince of Wales was hanging out with? Are we supposed to recognize her? Any clue what was in the letter? Any idea why she and Mr. Blake seemed to know each other at the ball?
And had we ever seen Lord Aysgarth and his daughter before?
Overall, I enjoyed this episode and the entire season. I know some folks find it has become too soap opera-ish now, but I think that’s an element of it that I’ve enjoyed from the beginning.
The brownshirts incident was too much. Come ON.
Also, I don’t buy for one minute that Violet would be even slightly perturbed by ANYTHING Cora’s mother said to her.
I find Miss Bunting to be a pushy little thing. I think it odd for a person in that time, or really, our time, to invite oneself over to someone’s home and refuse to be put off. What the heck? I can’t figure out if the writers are trying to make her come across as an annoying nag, or somehow think that the character is supposed to be refreshingly candid.
Mrs. Hughes continues to be the best. The final scene at the beach was simply lovely.
I am dying to know what secret Thomas is holding over Cora’s lady’s maid.
Mrs. Dudley Ward is a real life person who had an affair with the Prince of Wales. I vaguely recall that in The King’s Speech, she’s referenced as yet another married woman the Prince was involved with before taking up with Wallis Simpson.
Oh, and the letter. There is at least one real life letter that exists that the Prince sent Mrs. Dudley Ward, which is, of itself, a mostly a sweet love letter and mainly scandalous for the fact that the heir to the throne was sending it to a married woman. Later in life, Edward became nuttier (or his nuttiness came out more) and his letters (to other people) come across as much whinier and creepier, so in the world of Downton Abbey, I like to think the stolen letter was more salacious.
I wondered if the salacious nature of the letter was the fact that it was between the PoW and Mrs Dudley Ward. But then she was his date to the ball, so it’s not like their relationship was a secret.
It was an open secret, sure. The letter crosses a line because it is in writing. The other element is that social events then were a bit different - a lady might have any number of escorts who were not her husband, and there was nothing untoward about that at all. In most cases, social convention required that people be paired off, so there was always a lot of rummaging around trying to find escorts so that the number of men and ladies would be the same. A man might escort his sister, his sister in law, a friend of the family, the wife of a friend or business associate, just about anyone to whom he had a legitimate social connection.
I think these days, there would be more surprise and speculation if a married person turned up with a date other than the spouse … but an escort had a different meaning then. It was much easier to keep up the appearance that there was no connection with a companion at a social event and any romantic involvement.
Criticisms of the Prince at the time were because he drooled over Mrs. Dudley Ward at social events, not that he was there with her in the first place.
In higher circles, it was expected that the heir to the throne would engage in discreet affairs with married women of a certain rank. Generally after they had produced their “heir & a spare.” Their husbands, if not complaisant, generally had other amusements.
The common folk were to envision their dashing prince fulfilling his duties–reviewing troops, visiting colonies, etc., until a foreign princess was found to be his bride. A fairy tale wedding would follow. The British newspapers generally avoided printing anything to contradict this picture. (Brushing up on my research revealed that Bertie chose a noble–but not royal–bride. However, he was considered The Spare, so it didn’t matter as much.)
US papers broke the Wallis Simpson story. We’ve always had royal watchers over here–and she was American!
Yes, Robert mentioned that he was worried the American press would print the story. I think he assumed the British press would keep it quiet, but the Americans were not so discrete.
I was mostly captivated by the costumes in this episode. The rose-colored dress Rose was wearing (when they were all sitting around figuring out how to steal the letter) was just breathtaking. Edith looked completely beautiful in everything. I know she’s kind of a sad sack, but why is Mary so completely wonderful in every way and she’s ignored by everyone? It seems so unrealistic.
I also loved the jewelry, except maybe Cora’s tiara. I’ve gotten to where her entire presence irritates me. Everyone else’s long necklaces were gorg. I have a couple similar pieces by Sweet Romanceof my own, so it was fun to see them set in a time period when they were in style! (I love Art Nouveau jewelry too!)
Why does Daisy completely rebuff any guy interested in her?
Ellen Cherry - You probably would’ve liked this garnet necklace we sold after my mother’s death. Didn’t go for much - we sold it at auction but garnets aren’t as popular as they used to be. As I recall it had matching earrings. Just the thing for dresses with an open neckline. The center drop on the necklace could be detached and worn as a brooch.
I think Edith (or rather the actress who plays her) is hands down the most beautiful woman on the show…but her character is a bit of wet blanket at times and I think we’re supposed to assume that other gentlemen her range just don’t enjoy her company–and that she doesn’t really enjoy theirs. She does seem to have a “type.”
Mary is dynamic and a challenge which overshadows Edith.
Some of my favorite moments last season and a favorite moment last night was when a male member of the family reaches out to her. Matthew and Tom both like Edith and do seems to enjoy her company since any romantic pressure is off.
I think Laura Carmichael is one of the most unrated actors in the show. She does a terrific job of creating a character that I often feel genuinely sympathetic toward - a lot of her situations are ones she is stuck in - yet at the same time, Edith is also such a pill. It would be much easier to make Edith truly unlikable, but it would be a much more superficial way to play her.
In last night’s episode, it was so clear that Edith was truly miserable over the loss of her child … and still I was rolling my eyes at her when she was frustrated by the Dowager’s attempt to give her sympathy. Look girlfriend, that is probably the most genuine concern you are going to get, take it or leave it.
The funny thing about Edith is she’s supposed to be the one that’s not pretty. If that actress lived in that time period she would have been a celebrated beauty. Her looks are dead on what was admired and considered beautiful during the early part of the 20th century. Look at those early Art Deco paintings: pale skin, light hair and lots of red heads, long noses, etc. The art deco models all looked exactly like Edith. It doesn’t make any sense for “poor Edith” to be the unfortunate looking one. And from the first series Edith has been portrayed as bitter because she was always overlooked because she wasn’t as pretty as her sisters.
Anyway, somebody is going to find out who that baby girl belongs to within the first three episodes of the next season. Probably in one.
I did adore Rose’s presentation. It was so fun to see the ladies in their court dresses and everyone all decked out better than their best.
I’ve had a lot of affection for Edith ever since Mary retaliated against her for the Pamouk letter. I guess I like an underdog. And I also enjoy hating Mary, so there’s that. Poor Edith, I’m glad she’s getting her baby back. Not only to have to give a wanted, loved infant up, but to pull the Band-Aid off slowly by nursing the baby for a while before leaving . . . ugh, that made me tear up.
I also like that Molesley got to regain some dignity and be a protector for Baxter. They make a cute couple.
Hmm, it appears that I always like the characters who Baron Fellowes likes to shit on.
Even making allowances for soap operas they make Thomas so evil it’s annoying. He’s either crying over the sadness of the world or he’s creating the sadness of the world. And lose the vampire makeup.
I was expecting Tom to crush Thomas after he tattled like a little boy to Lord Grantham. Tom is respected enough to have Thomas dismissed. It’s so unrealistic that after getting a second chance he would “poke the bear” by scheming against Tom. I envision the school teacher marrying Tom and giving Thomas his walking papers.
None of that made sense. Why would Bates have kept the stub if it incriminated him? And, of course, as has been pointed out, it was undated—so it couldn’t have been very incriminating.
Sure, this made possible “dramatic” scenes of Bates looking worried about ‘not having had the chance to clean out the coat pockets’—but the “drama” seemed utterly contrived.
I wondered about that, too. Even if Gregson had made a will saying “I leave everything to Lady Edith Crawley,” would he have been able (under English law) to simply disinherit his wife?
