# Downton Abbey S5 - spoiler-free until broadcast in the U.S. **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [July 28, 2014, 3:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/downton-abbey-s5-spoiler-free-until-broadcast-in-the-u-s/694244 "2014-07-28T15:03:38Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 10
**Author:** ![John\_Bredin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/96bed5/32.png) [@John\_Bredin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Bredin)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2015, 7:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/downton-abbey-s5-spoiler-free-until-broadcast-in-the-u-s/694244/181 "2015-01-21T19:12:38Z")
> [@corkboard](#): > > Regarding Anna, Mary and the unspeakable subject of \ birth control- Anna and Bates are married, and presumably engaging in the occasional act of sexual congress. Since Anna is so scandalized about the prospect of birth control, what do she and Bates do- twice a year and hope for the best? Reach a hand across the vast expanse of their marital bed? Have we learned that one of them is sterile? It wasn’t birth control that scandalized Anna, it was Lady Mary’s unmarried status in using that birth control. 🙂 Notice that it was (relatively) no problem for Anna as a married woman in 1924 to make the purchase. It also explains why she grumbled at Lady Mary asking her to buy it **and** was miffed at the store clerk for giving her gruff selling it to her: in her mind (and of many at the time), she had every right as a married woman who “should” be having sex to use birth control if she chooses. Lady Mary, not so much, but Anna’s too much Lady Mary’s friend **and** servant to object **too** strenuously. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![corkboard](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e9bcb4/32.png) [@corkboard](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/corkboard)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2015, 7:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/downton-abbey-s5-spoiler-free-until-broadcast-in-the-u-s/694244/182 "2015-01-21T19:58:51Z")
> [@John\_Bredin](#): > > It wasn’t birth control that scandalized Anna, it was Lady Mary’s unmarried status in using that birth control. 🙂 Notice that it was (relatively) no problem for Anna as a married woman in 1924 to make the purchase. It also explains why she grumbled at Lady Mary asking her to buy it **and** was miffed at the store clerk for giving her gruff selling it to her: in her mind (and of many at the time), she had every right as a married woman who “should” be having sex to use birth control if she chooses. Lady Mary, not so much, but Anna’s too much Lady Mary’s friend **and** servant to object **too** strenuously. 😉 Right, but I still got the sense that she was mortified about having to buy it, despite her status as a married woman. Perhaps she obtains whatever she uses from her doctor? Was that a thing? ---
**Author:** ![LavenderBlue](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/e95f7d/32.png) [@LavenderBlue](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LavenderBlue)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2015, 8:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/downton-abbey-s5-spoiler-free-until-broadcast-in-the-u-s/694244/183 "2015-01-21T20:08:36Z")
> [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](#): > > I thought he was a bit tempted by that pretty servant, but restrained himself. He kissed her rather passionately. I’ve certainly gotten the impression it wasn’t the first time he’d had a little poke and tickle with one of the servants. RE: Mary and Anna. I think even today someone might feel that way. Suppose your boss asked you to help them out by buying some birth control for her. I think many of us would still be a little blushy at the prospect of doing that for our employer. I’m sure she and Bates probably just took their chances then. Did they even have access to standard natural birth control such as charting a woman’s cycle back then? ---
**Author:** ![ThelmaLou](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thelmalou/32/390_2.png) [@ThelmaLou](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ThelmaLou)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2015, 8:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/downton-abbey-s5-spoiler-free-until-broadcast-in-the-u-s/694244/184 "2015-01-21T20:13:20Z")
What if Lord Grantham is actually the offspring of Violet and the Russian? Hmmm…? Re birth control: consider how judgmental the chemist lady was toward Anna even after she saw that Anna was married. ---
**Author:** ![Push\_You\_Down](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/push_you_down/32/9095_2.png) [@Push\_You\_Down](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Push_You_Down)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2015, 8:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/downton-abbey-s5-spoiler-free-until-broadcast-in-the-u-s/694244/185 "2015-01-21T20:15:37Z")
> [@ThelmaLou](#): > > What if Lord Grantham is actually the offspring of Violet and the Russian? Hmmm…? Addressed in the episode. Mary says “good thing papa and Rossamund were already born or else we’d all be spinning wild fairy tales.” or something close to that. ---
**Author:** ![lisiate](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/f05b48/32.png) [@lisiate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lisiate)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2015, 10:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/downton-abbey-s5-spoiler-free-until-broadcast-in-the-u-s/694244/186 "2015-01-21T22:01:08Z")
> [@Dewey\_Finn](#): > > The subplot involving the Russian emigres was interesting. We all know that the royal family was shot, but it never occurred to me to wonder about the fate of the other royals and other members of the nobility. And did anyone else find it slightly odd that the Crawleys would devote their charitable efforts to relief for deposed royals and other nobles? Presumably there were poor refugees coming out of Russia as well. Some of the emigres assimilated pretty successfully. One of them scored England’s greatest [try of the 1930s](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wjb8eO0bJ3U), [joined the RAF](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alexander_Obolensky)and died in WWII. Helen Mirren’s grandfather was another Russian emigre. ---
**Author:** ![LavenderBlue](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/e95f7d/32.png) [@LavenderBlue](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LavenderBlue)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2015, 10:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/downton-abbey-s5-spoiler-free-until-broadcast-in-the-u-s/694244/187 "2015-01-21T22:05:00Z")
> [@ThelmaLou](#): > > What if Lord Grantham is actually the offspring of Violet and the Russian? Hmmm…? Hmm. Okay. So Violet went to Russia for the marriage of Queen Victoria’s second son, [Alfred.](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alfred,_Duke_of_Saxe-Coburg_and_Gotha) That was in 1874. Let’s see. Grantham and Cora are celebrating their 34th wedding anniversary in 1924. So that means that they married in 1890. Nah. There’s no way that Robert wasn’t at least twenty when he married so he had to have been born in 1870. I’ve read that Cora was married at eighteen and I doubt she married a younger man. ---
**Author:** ![zbuzz](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/e19b73/32.png) [@zbuzz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/zbuzz)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2015, 10:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/downton-abbey-s5-spoiler-free-until-broadcast-in-the-u-s/694244/188 "2015-01-21T22:37:28Z")
> [@Push\_You\_Down](#): > > Addressed in the episode. Mary says “good thing papa and Rossamund were already born or else we’d all be spinning wild fairy tales.” or something close to that. They cut to Mary laying down that exposition so fast that it felt like Fellows immediately trying to nip any audience speculation in the bud by saying, “Even I have limits for the ridiculous soap opera story lines.” But then I remembered Edith and Marigold… ---
**Author:** ![cwthree](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/9de0a6/32.png) [@cwthree](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cwthree)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2015, 2:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/downton-abbey-s5-spoiler-free-until-broadcast-in-the-u-s/694244/189 "2015-01-22T02:06:32Z")
> [@LavenderBlue](#): > > . Did they even have access to standard natural birth control such as charting a woman’s cycle back then? Just barely. Formalized calendar-based birth control - the so-called “rhythm method” - was introduced in 1930. ---
**Author:** ![hajario](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hajario/32/171_2.png) [@hajario](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hajario)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2015, 3:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/downton-abbey-s5-spoiler-free-until-broadcast-in-the-u-s/694244/190 "2015-01-26T03:25:10Z")
Miss Bunting is a total piece of shit. Why treat your host so shitty? Just don’t show up if you think he’s so awful. Why was everyone trolling Mr. Moseley so much with the First Footman thing? ---
**Author:** ![alphaboi867](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alphaboi867/32/3898_2.png) [@alphaboi867](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/alphaboi867)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2015, 4:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/downton-abbey-s5-spoiler-free-until-broadcast-in-the-u-s/694244/191 "2015-01-26T04:01:33Z")
> [@hajario](#): > > Miss Bunting is a total piece of shit. Why treat your host so shitty? Just don’t show up if you think he’s so awful… A free dinner? 😛 She’s an utterly clueless and classless bitch; though I sure loved how Violet matter-of-factly changed the subject to Edith’s column afterward. The only thing missing was Robert throwing all the hoops his mother went thru get bring Daisy’s dying fiancé to Downton for a deathbed wedding. 😉 PS; WTF was Carson doing with the wine bottles? 😕 ---
**Author:** ![Mr\_Downtown](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/8e8cbc/32.png) [@Mr\_Downtown](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr_Downtown)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2015, 4:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/downton-abbey-s5-spoiler-free-until-broadcast-in-the-u-s/694244/192 "2015-01-26T04:42:45Z")
^He was decanting a wine bottle that had been stored for many years, pouring it through a napkin to remove the sediment. ---
**Author:** ![Dewey\_Finn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dewey_finn/32/4222_2.png) [@Dewey\_Finn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dewey_Finn)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2015, 2:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/downton-abbey-s5-spoiler-free-until-broadcast-in-the-u-s/694244/193 "2015-01-26T14:32:08Z")
> [@hajario](#): > > Why was everyone trolling Mr. Moseley so much with the First Footman thing? It seemed that Carson wanted to push him to give up being first footman. Although I didn’t like the way Carson did it; he and Mrs Hughes were dumping all of that work on him. Moseley was trained and served as a butler and valet and feels he’s gone backwards given that he’s now a footman. But at this time, people are hiring fewer servants so the opportunities are few. And Sarah was being an ass; first by suggesting that Grantham didn’t even know Daisy’s name and then by not shutting up after Daisy’s response supported Sarah in he argument with Grantham. ---
**Author:** ![hajario](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hajario/32/171_2.png) [@hajario](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hajario)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2015, 2:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/downton-abbey-s5-spoiler-free-until-broadcast-in-the-u-s/694244/194 "2015-01-26T14:57:36Z")
> [@Dewey\_Finn](#): > > It seemed that Carson wanted to push him to give up being first footman. Although I didn’t like the way Carson did it; he and Mrs Hughes were dumping all of that work on him. Moseley was trained and served as a butler and valet and feels he’s gone > backwards given that he’s now a footman. But at this time, people are hiring fewer servants so the opportunities are few. But why was everyone being such a dick. He’s the only footman now. What’s the harm in calling him First Footman. Even Daisy was in on it. > [@](#): > > And Sarah was being an ass; first by suggesting that Grantham didn’t even know Daisy’s name and then by not shutting up after Daisy’s response supported Sarah in he argument with Grantham. Exactly. She made her point and he totally conceded it. She was entirely out of line. ---
**Author:** ![freckafree](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/freckafree/32/3050_2.png) [@freckafree](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/freckafree)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2015, 3:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/downton-abbey-s5-spoiler-free-until-broadcast-in-the-u-s/694244/195 "2015-01-26T15:19:06Z")
> [@Dewey\_Finn](#): > > From a recap elsewhere, Barrow said on the phone, “I’ve read your advertisement in The London Magazine, ‘Choose your own path.’” I didn’t get a good look at the advertisement when Baxter was looking at it. Is it, as someone posited earlier, that Barrow is trying to cure his homosexuality? ---
**Author:** ![Dewey\_Finn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dewey_finn/32/4222_2.png) [@Dewey\_Finn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dewey_Finn)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2015, 3:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/downton-abbey-s5-spoiler-free-until-broadcast-in-the-u-s/694244/196 "2015-01-26T15:22:41Z")
Perhaps, but Barrow’s treatment does seem to involve taking cocaine or some other drug. ---
**Author:** ![freckafree](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/freckafree/32/3050_2.png) [@freckafree](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/freckafree)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2015, 3:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/downton-abbey-s5-spoiler-free-until-broadcast-in-the-u-s/694244/197 "2015-01-26T15:44:05Z")
[An article on this plot point.](http://www.pinknews.co.uk/2014/10/20/downton-abbey-gay-character-trying-to-cure-himself-of-homosexuality/) ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2015, 4:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/downton-abbey-s5-spoiler-free-until-broadcast-in-the-u-s/694244/198 "2015-01-26T16:08:44Z")
Miss Bunting proved herself to be infinitely rude, first by picking a fight with the Earl after \*assuring \*Tom she’d be on her best behavior at dinner, and then by not dropping it once Mrs. Patmore and Daisy left the dining room. I would’ve been about as pissed off as the Earl was. I was surprised we didn’t see Carson pulling back her chair and escorting her to the front door posthaste. Hope Mrs. Crawley accepts Lord Whatsisface’s proposal; he seems like a nice guy and was endearingly awkward and earnest. The Dowager’s comment about not appreciating her late husband’s “true qualities through his thick layer of conventionality” has obvious application to Isobel’s suitor. I agree that Carson wanted Molesley to give up the first footman title by piling work on him. I don’t think that Mrs. Hughes and Daisy were in on any plot, though - it was more that he was just the logical guy to give that work to. I _highly_ doubt the police would have a plainclothesman staking out Tony Gillingham’s London place after all this time. It also surprised me that Mary would walk away with Tony after telling him they were through, and him reacting so badly and berating her. _Sayonara_, baby! The music during the fashion show that Mary and Rosamund attended was very intrusive and annoying. Was that meant to be what they were hearing, or just the TV show’s soundtrack? Aaaaaand looks like Blake is back in the hunt. ---
**Author:** ![freckafree](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/freckafree/32/3050_2.png) [@freckafree](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/freckafree)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2015, 5:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/downton-abbey-s5-spoiler-free-until-broadcast-in-the-u-s/694244/199 "2015-01-26T17:11:21Z")
I loved the way Lord Gillingham berated Mary. “How dare you sleep with a man you’re not going to marry!” WTF, Tony. You suggested it! ---
**Author:** ![hajario](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hajario/32/171_2.png) [@hajario](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hajario)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2015, 5:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/downton-abbey-s5-spoiler-free-until-broadcast-in-the-u-s/694244/200 "2015-01-26T17:42:07Z")
> [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](#): > > I agree that Carson wanted Molesley to give up the first footman title by piling work on him. I don’t think that Mrs. Hughes and Daisy were in on any plot, though - it was more that he was just the logical guy to give that work to. So who’s going to do it now? Carson will say, “We don’t have a First Footman anymore. Mosely is just a regular footman who happens to be the only footman so the work will be left undone.” > [@](#): > > I _highly_ doubt the police would have a plainclothesman staking out Tony Gillingham’s London place after all this time. I thought that he just happened to be there and saw her. Just like the incredible coincidence of Spratt seeing Mary and Gillingham. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/downton-abbey-s5-spoiler-free-until-broadcast-in-the-u-s/694244.md?page=9) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/downton-abbey-s5-spoiler-free-until-broadcast-in-the-u-s/694244.md?page=11)