# Downton Abbey S5 - spoiler-free until broadcast in the U.S. **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [July 28, 2014, 3:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/downton-abbey-s5-spoiler-free-until-broadcast-in-the-u-s/694244 "2014-07-28T15:03:38Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 22
**Author:** ![cwthree](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/9de0a6/32.png) [@cwthree](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cwthree)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2015, 3:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/downton-abbey-s5-spoiler-free-until-broadcast-in-the-u-s/694244/421 "2015-02-23T15:16:10Z")
> [@IvoryTowerDenizen](#): > > I like Barrow using his powers for good, not evil. That part made me feel like I must have overlooked some significant part of the story. What would cause Thomas to develop a shred of something resembling empathy? [QUOTE=John Mace] Yul Brenner is being a bit one-dimensional for my tastes. [/QUOTE] Brynner’s been dead for ages. That’s Mr. Clean. ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2015, 3:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/downton-abbey-s5-spoiler-free-until-broadcast-in-the-u-s/694244/422 "2015-02-23T15:24:44Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > Sloppy writing, if you ask me. I can’t imagine a man in his position at that time being so blasé about his daughter having a child out of wedlock. I don’t think he was blasé as much as resigned. He didn’t want to go up against Cora, who had obviously accepted the situation, and more importantly, he didn’t want to lose another daughter. ---
**Author:** ![IvoryTowerDenizen](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ivorytowerdenizen/32/17937_2.png) [@IvoryTowerDenizen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/IvoryTowerDenizen)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2015, 3:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/downton-abbey-s5-spoiler-free-until-broadcast-in-the-u-s/694244/423 "2015-02-23T15:29:24Z")
> [@cwthree](#): > > That part made me feel like I must have overlooked some significant part of the story. What would cause Thomas to develop a shred of something resembling empathy? Baxter’s kindness and empathy towards him after he was a bully to her. She implored him to try to find a way to live a kinder life and tried to tell him he was deserving of happiness. ---
**Author:** ![ISiddiqui](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/97f17d/32.png) [@ISiddiqui](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ISiddiqui)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2015, 3:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/downton-abbey-s5-spoiler-free-until-broadcast-in-the-u-s/694244/424 "2015-02-23T15:41:51Z")
> [@LavenderBlue](#): > > Lord’s Sinderby’s attitude. As someone who is Jewish and is married to someone non-Jewish this made me laugh. I bet my husband’s family to this day still can’t possibly believe that anyone in my family would dislike me marrying someone non-Jewish. I also sort of did our marriage at City Hall because the rabbis were being a pain about my husband not being Jewish so it rang true to me. I think that part of why it mattered so much to Lord Sinderby was because he was one of the leading Jews of England and therefore was likely looked up to by other Jews in the country. And I think his statement of the 4th Lord Sinderby being English and just as prejudiced against Jews as any of them was quite powerful as well. Every once in a while, Fellows likes to show that at his core, Robert is a good person, even though he can do some mean spirited and dumb things. I think this episode showed that in spades - it was really quite wonderful what he did for Mrs. Pattmore. ---
**Author:** ![ZPG\_Zealot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/e47c2d/32.png) [@ZPG\_Zealot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ZPG_Zealot)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2015, 4:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/downton-abbey-s5-spoiler-free-until-broadcast-in-the-u-s/694244/425 "2015-02-23T16:13:04Z")
> [@cwthree](#): > > That part made me feel like I must have overlooked some significant part of the story. What would cause Thomas to develop a shred of something resembling empathy? > Brynner’s been dead for ages. That’s Mr. Clean. I kind of got the impression Thomas was attracted to the temporary footman. ---
**Author:** ![LavenderBlue](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/e95f7d/32.png) [@LavenderBlue](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LavenderBlue)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2015, 4:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/downton-abbey-s5-spoiler-free-until-broadcast-in-the-u-s/694244/426 "2015-02-23T16:20:19Z")
> [@ISiddiqui](#): > > I think that part of why it mattered so much to Lord Sinderby was because he was one of the leading Jews of England and therefore was likely looked up to by other Jews in the country. And I think his statement of the 4th Lord Sinderby being English and just as prejudiced against Jews as any of them was quite powerful as well. > > Every once in a while, Fellows likes to show that at his core, Robert is a good person, even though he can do some mean spirited and dumb things. I think this episode showed that in spades - it was really quite wonderful what he did for Mrs. Pattmore. Yeah that was it. He’s probably conflicted on the whole thing. He likes Rose personally but she isn’t Jewish and isn’t going to convert. He’s probably wondering what others are going to think of him in the local English Jewish community when his son marries a shiksa. > [@ZPG\_Zealot](#): > > I kind of got the impression Thomas was attracted to the temporary footman. So did I. Anyone else think Bates is going to confess to murder next season to spring Anna from prison? ---
**Author:** ![ISiddiqui](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/97f17d/32.png) [@ISiddiqui](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ISiddiqui)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2015, 4:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/downton-abbey-s5-spoiler-free-until-broadcast-in-the-u-s/694244/427 "2015-02-23T16:24:43Z")
> [@LavenderBlue](#): > > Anyone else think Bates is going to confess to murder next season to spring Anna from prison? That’s the impression I got when Bates was telling Mrs. Hughes that Anna wasn’t going to be convicted. ---
**Author:** ![ThelmaLou](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thelmalou/32/390_2.png) [@ThelmaLou](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ThelmaLou)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2015, 6:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/downton-abbey-s5-spoiler-free-until-broadcast-in-the-u-s/694244/428 "2015-02-23T18:33:55Z")
> [@LavenderBlue](#): > > He’s probably conflicted on the whole thing. He likes Rose personally but she isn’t Jewish and isn’t going to convert. He’s probably wondering what others are going to think of him in the local English Jewish community when his son marries a shiksa. His main objection is that because Rose isn’t Jewish, their children won’t be Jewish and won’t be considered Jewish by the Jewish community. So the estate will pass out of Jewish hands. This is a huge deal to him. To be Jewish your mother has to be Jewish (which is why Cora isn’t Jewish). I’m not making this up. Maybe some people think there’s wiggle room today, but there certainly wasn’t back then. The children would have to convert in order to be Jewish. Who’s to say Rose won’t convert? The subject hasn’t come up. She’s not terribly attached to whatever the official family faith is. If Rose were to convert before she has children, then the children would be Jewish. > [@ZPG\_Zealot](#): > > I kind of got the impression Thomas was attracted to the temporary footman. I definitely got that impression. And Andy picked up on it when Thomas fixed the kid’s tie. ---
**Author:** ![rock\_party](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e19b73/32.png) [@rock\_party](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rock_party)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2015, 7:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/downton-abbey-s5-spoiler-free-until-broadcast-in-the-u-s/694244/429 "2015-02-23T19:30:53Z")
> [@](#): > > I definitely got that impression. And Andy picked up on it when Thomas fixed the kid’s tie. Yea, me too. When Thomas told Andy, “That’s why you should come to Uncle Thomas”, I got more of an “Uncle Ernie” vibe. ---
**Author:** ![hajario](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hajario/32/171_2.png) [@hajario](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hajario)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2015, 7:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/downton-abbey-s5-spoiler-free-until-broadcast-in-the-u-s/694244/430 "2015-02-23T19:47:40Z")
> [@rock\_party](#): > > Yea, me too. When Thomas told Andy, “That’s why you should come to Uncle Thomas”, I got more of an “Uncle Ernie” vibe. Seriously? Uncle Earnie was a pedophile. That’s not related in any way. For fuck sake, dude. ---
**Author:** ![rock\_party](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e19b73/32.png) [@rock\_party](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rock_party)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2015, 7:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/downton-abbey-s5-spoiler-free-until-broadcast-in-the-u-s/694244/431 "2015-02-23T19:55:24Z")
> [@](#): > > Seriously? Uncle Earnie was a pedophile. That’s not related in any way. For fuck sake, dude. Perhaps to someone lacking a sense of humor. I was thinking more of Thomas’s desire to “fiddle about”. ---
**Author:** ![Sarabellum](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sarabellum/32/3492_2.png) [@Sarabellum](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sarabellum)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2015, 8:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/downton-abbey-s5-spoiler-free-until-broadcast-in-the-u-s/694244/432 "2015-02-23T20:22:56Z")
> [@ThelmaLou](#): > > I’m going with a theory proposed earlier in this thread that it was Baxter who killed Mr. Green. > > Agree that arresting Anna strains credulity. Is she gonna spend all next season in jail like Mr. B did awhile back? > > When Tom and Mary were talking I so wanted them to realize they’re in love etc., blahblahblah. I mean, Tom is the only man Mary can tolerate, and Tom has already proved he’s attracted to cold, opinionated, domineering women. Match made in heaven. > > Yeah, Tom, give up this cushy life where your daughter has loving grandparents and cousins and move to a flat in Boston and work for a living-- that’s the ticket. Dufus. > > I liked the scene where Carson assumed the avuncular tone he used to do with Mary when she was young. Sweet. > > The servants in this household sure get a lot of free time, even as their numbers are dwindling. > > The fact that Robert figured out and accepted Marigold’s true identity over the course of about three minutes makes all the deception, tap dancing, and heartbreak of the last year or so re the child seem cruelly pointless. > > I cried when they unveiled the plaque for Mrs. Patmore’s nephew. WTG, Robert. I guess the death of Isis really softened him up. > > Rose’s mother: bitch on wheels. > > Let’s get the Russian princess declared legally dead, and then Violet and Isobel can have a double wedding. I like the idea of Isobel and Violet both getting late-in-life upgrade marriages! Princess Violet! And her best friend Lady Isobel! (Would she be a countess? or a baroness? Have they ever specified what Lord Murton is lord of?) It just has a nice ring to it, either way! However I suspect that neither of these marriages will be happening, unfortunately. I wish the writers had thought to hook up Daisy and Tom Branson - Tom would have made a good farmer and manager for the Mason farm, eventually, and it would have kept Sybbie nearby. But no… we’ve got to send poor Tom over to Boston. And poor Sybbie can grow up in an apartment instead of a castle. (She’s going to resent the heck out of that as she gets a little bit older!) ---
**Author:** ![hajario](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hajario/32/171_2.png) [@hajario](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hajario)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2015, 8:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/downton-abbey-s5-spoiler-free-until-broadcast-in-the-u-s/694244/433 "2015-02-23T20:39:53Z")
> [@rock\_party](#): > > Perhaps to someone lacking a sense of humor. > > I was thinking more of Thomas’s desire to “fiddle about”. Nice try. ---
**Author:** ![LavenderBlue](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/e95f7d/32.png) [@LavenderBlue](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LavenderBlue)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2015, 8:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/downton-abbey-s5-spoiler-free-until-broadcast-in-the-u-s/694244/434 "2015-02-23T20:40:17Z")
> [@ThelmaLou](#): > > His main objection is that because Rose isn’t Jewish, their children won’t be Jewish and won’t be considered Jewish by the Jewish community. So the estate will pass out of Jewish hands. This is a huge deal to him. To be Jewish your mother has to be Jewish (which is why Cora isn’t Jewish). I’m not making this up. Maybe some people think there’s wiggle room today, but there certainly wasn’t back then. The children would have to convert in order to be Jewish. I’m Jewish so I know you’re not making it up. 🙂 To Jews, one is either Jewish in which case one is born of a Jewish mother or one has converted. You are not half Jewish to Jews. The only Jewish denomination that considers a father’s religion relevant in counting Jewish affiliation is Reform. That’s a very American thing so I doubt it’s Sinderby’s sect. > [@](#): > > Who’s to say Rose won’t convert? The subject hasn’t come up. She’s not terribly attached to whatever the official family faith is. If Rose were to convert before she has children, then the children would be Jewish. I wonder if Rose would consider doing so? Would it have been heavily frowned on back then by her upper class English society? Or merely an acceptable eccentricity? Mary and Edith certain seem to have essentially no connection with Judaism at all despite having a Jewish grandfather. They don’t even identify as American. ---
**Author:** ![ThelmaLou](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thelmalou/32/390_2.png) [@ThelmaLou](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ThelmaLou)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2015, 8:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/downton-abbey-s5-spoiler-free-until-broadcast-in-the-u-s/694244/435 "2015-02-23T20:53:17Z")
> [@LavenderBlue](#): > > I’m Jewish so I know you’re not making it up. 🙂 To Jews, one is either Jewish in which case one is born of a Jewish mother or one has converted. You are not half Jewish to Jews. The only Jewish denomination that considers a father’s religion relevant in counting Jewish affiliation is Reform. That’s a very American thing so I doubt it’s Sinderby’s sect. Thanks. The first time I brought this up, there was some discussion. > [@](#): > > I wonder if Rose would consider doing so? Would it have been heavily frowned on back then by her upper class English society? Or merely an acceptable eccentricity? Mary and Edith certain seem to have essentially no connection with Judaism at all despite having a Jewish grandfather. They don’t even identify as American. None of the Crawleys seem very religious at all, so I can’t see them minding it. ---
**Author:** ![cwthree](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/9de0a6/32.png) [@cwthree](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cwthree)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2015, 8:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/downton-abbey-s5-spoiler-free-until-broadcast-in-the-u-s/694244/436 "2015-02-23T20:57:29Z")
> [@LavenderBlue](#): > > …The only Jewish denomination that considers a father’s religion relevant in counting Jewish affiliation is Reform. That’s a very American thing so I doubt it’s Sinderby’s sect. Trivia: The [West London Synagogue of British Jews](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/West_London_Synagogue)was established in 1840 as a Reform synagogue. It’s not impossible that our fictional Lord Sinderby would have been affiliated. But overall, Reform Judaism doesn’t represent a significant share of European Jews in the way it does in the US. ---
**Author:** ![Chefguy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chefguy/32/138_2.png) [@Chefguy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chefguy)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2015, 9:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/downton-abbey-s5-spoiler-free-until-broadcast-in-the-u-s/694244/437 "2015-02-23T21:03:03Z")
> [@ThelmaLou](#): > > Agree that arresting Anna strains credulity. Is she gonna spend all next season in jail like Mr. B did awhile back? I groaned out loud when she was arrested. ---
**Author:** ![Miss\_Woodhouse](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/838e76/32.png) [@Miss\_Woodhouse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miss_Woodhouse)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2015, 9:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/downton-abbey-s5-spoiler-free-until-broadcast-in-the-u-s/694244/438 "2015-02-23T21:04:02Z")
Is there anyone watching DA who isn’t tired of the Bates Family Crime Drama? The man needs a new plot stat. I really enjoyed most of this episode. I think that Thomas has shown a good side on and off over the years. It’s like he really does have a nice person locked down inside but he’s so bitter he never lets it come through. I enjoyed the wedding and Rose’s mother is just as horrible and we remember her being. Rose’s dress was stunning. Loved it, although the Princess Leia-ish roses were a bit too much. I just don’t see Tom really going. I think Fellows is going to tease us with it and then bring him back in. Downton is a bit like Hotel California. ---
**Author:** ![hajario](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hajario/32/171_2.png) [@hajario](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hajario)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2015, 9:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/downton-abbey-s5-spoiler-free-until-broadcast-in-the-u-s/694244/439 "2015-02-23T21:08:01Z")
> [@Miss\_Woodhouse](#): > > I just don’t see Tom really going. I think Fellows is going to tease us with it and then bring him back in. Downton is a bit like Hotel California. Well he said that he would stay through Christmas and, guess what, the next episode is the Christmas special. There was a big break between the episode that we just saw and the one that we will see next week. I imagine that a lot of that episode will revolve around that as well as Anna in prison. ---
**Author:** ![leahcim](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/b4bc9f/32.png) [@leahcim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/leahcim)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2015, 9:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/downton-abbey-s5-spoiler-free-until-broadcast-in-the-u-s/694244/440 "2015-02-23T21:10:34Z")
> [@Sarabellum1976](#): > > (Would she be a countess? or a baroness? Have they ever specified what Lord Murton is lord of?) Apparently he is a Baron, but that is something that is inferred from the way Carson announced him, rather than directly stated. (See footnote [here](http://downtonabbey.wikia.com/wiki/Richard_Grey)). [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/downton-abbey-s5-spoiler-free-until-broadcast-in-the-u-s/694244.md?page=21) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/downton-abbey-s5-spoiler-free-until-broadcast-in-the-u-s/694244.md?page=23)