# Downton Abbey S5 - spoiler-free until broadcast in the U.S. **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [July 28, 2014, 3:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/downton-abbey-s5-spoiler-free-until-broadcast-in-the-u-s/694244 "2014-07-28T15:03:38Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 24
**Author:** ![leahcim](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/b4bc9f/32.png) [@leahcim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/leahcim)\ **Post date:** [February 24, 2015, 2:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/downton-abbey-s5-spoiler-free-until-broadcast-in-the-u-s/694244/461 "2015-02-24T14:23:16Z")
> [@Dewey\_Finn](#): > > Can someone remind me why Rose’s parents are broke now? Recall that his estate in Scotland had fallen on the same hard times Downton Abbey did, but they didn’t have a Matthew to improbably acquire a fortune to keep everything going. At the start they were “land-poor”. Now they’re just regular poor (by which we mean, still fabulously rich, but poorer than the rest of the aristocrats). ---
**Author:** ![Dewey\_Finn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dewey_finn/32/4222_2.png) [@Dewey\_Finn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dewey_Finn)\ **Post date:** [February 24, 2015, 2:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/downton-abbey-s5-spoiler-free-until-broadcast-in-the-u-s/694244/462 "2015-02-24T14:24:37Z")
> [@TruCelt](#): > > Wasn’t Anna in London at the time? Wasn’t there something about her taking a message by hand instead of mailing it? Walking to the place? Am I conflating another storyline? No, Anna’s trip to London in which she hand-delivered a message to Gillingham’s house was this season. I think she said that she wanted to see the scene of the crime. It was during this errand that the undercover cop saw her while he was getting his shoes polished. Anna _might_ have been in London at the time of the death but I thought she was at Downton Abbey. ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [February 24, 2015, 2:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/downton-abbey-s5-spoiler-free-until-broadcast-in-the-u-s/694244/463 "2015-02-24T14:24:59Z")
> [@LavenderBlue](#): > > The only Jewish denomination that considers a father’s religion relevant in counting Jewish affiliation is Reform. That’s a very American thing so I doubt it’s Sinderby’s sect. I assumed that he was Reformed. He was dining with Gentiles so they obviously don’t keep kosher. Did it strike anyone else as too glib when Lady Sinderbie said to her husband “Don’t fuck this up or I’ll leave you and then you _will_ have a scandal”? Unless they were already having issues, that seems very much like a nuclear bomb, especially since they just met Lady Rose. It makes Lady Sinderbie look like almost as much a bitch as Rose’s mother, and that was way over the top anyway. Another thing that was too cut-and-dried was Thomas winning in the gambling den so the new footman could pay. It looked like the game was going to be crooked, and Thomas would recognize that and beat the system, but that idea was not developed at all. He just magically won, and then the other lady’s maid was on the hook for three nights of getting plastered. A clever little subplot, but not sufficiently developed. I liked the bit between Carson and Mary - “he was not good enough for you, and finally you realized it”. Reflected the earlier exchange where they reminisced about how they interacted when Mary was a child. Mary is the only one Carson could speak to on that level. Another part I did like was Lord Robert and the plaque. Unintentional irony - “let’s pick out a nice plaque for my dead dog - and oh, by the way, what have you got that will make Mrs. Patmore feel better about her deserter nephew?” Fairly obvious association of ideas in Lord Robert’s mind - dog = lower class = throw a sentimental sop and the poor fool will get back to the kitchen where she belongs. Somewhat like what is revealed about Lord Robert when he told Cora why he sold the picture. It is some fairly obvious self-justification, but he was able to come up with a flattering lie that Cora fell for, and much of their life together is based on flattering shared illusions. It worked for the character. And all I could think when they arrested Anna was “oh for heaven’s sake - here we go again”. Bates is going to confess even though he didn’t do it, and yet another trial/exoneration when whats-her-name the jewel thief swears falsely that she saw the ticket whole. Been there, done that. Too much yes-I-will-no-I-won’t overall. Isobel OK-I’ll-marry-you-no-I-won’t-maybe-I-will-after-all, Tom I’m-going-to-Boston-not-until-Christmas-maybe-I-am-in-love-with-Mary, Daisy I’m-going-to-London-no-I’m-not - even the Dowager Duchess “we are still in love sixty years later but maybe the Princess is still alive”. Next week is the season finale. I have to expect cliff-hangers, so none of these plot lines are going to be resolved. Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![Dewey\_Finn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dewey_finn/32/4222_2.png) [@Dewey\_Finn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dewey_Finn)\ **Post date:** [February 24, 2015, 2:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/downton-abbey-s5-spoiler-free-until-broadcast-in-the-u-s/694244/464 "2015-02-24T14:27:35Z")
> [@leahcim](#): > > > [@Dewey\_Finn](#): > > > > Can someone remind me why Rose’s parents are broke now? > > Recall that his estate in Scotland had fallen on the same hard times Downton Abbey did, but they didn’t have a Matthew to improbably acquire a fortune to keep everything going. At the start they were “land-poor”. Now they’re just regular poor (by which we mean, still fabulously rich, but poorer than the rest of the aristocrats). I gathered that they’re _not_ “still fabulously rich” given that they came to Grantham House without any servants whatsoever, not even a lady’s maid or a valet. Household staff was still relatively cheap then, so if they did have some money, they could afford at least one or two staff. ---
**Author:** ![leahcim](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/b4bc9f/32.png) [@leahcim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/leahcim)\ **Post date:** [February 24, 2015, 3:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/downton-abbey-s5-spoiler-free-until-broadcast-in-the-u-s/694244/465 "2015-02-24T15:24:14Z")
> [@Dewey\_Finn](#): > > I gathered that they’re _not_ “still fabulously rich” given that they came to Grantham House without any servants whatsoever, not even a lady’s maid or a valet. Household staff was still relatively cheap then, so if they did have some money, they could afford at least one or two staff. I mean fabulously wealthy compared to me (I also do not have a valet or lady’s maid on staff). They certainly were not stuck in India for want of resources to make the return trip. I’d think that they lost their estate, but still had some assets. They have drifted below the level of “people who employ servants” but were still well above the level of “working class”. Maybe financially they are on the same level as Isobel, who seems to not need to work, but needs to be frugal to maintain that situation. ---
**Author:** ![ThelmaLou](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thelmalou/32/390_2.png) [@ThelmaLou](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ThelmaLou)\ **Post date:** [February 24, 2015, 3:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/downton-abbey-s5-spoiler-free-until-broadcast-in-the-u-s/694244/466 "2015-02-24T15:26:09Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > I assumed that he was Reformed. Nitpick: “Reform” not “Reformed.” ---
**Author:** ![ISiddiqui](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/97f17d/32.png) [@ISiddiqui](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ISiddiqui)\ **Post date:** [February 24, 2015, 3:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/downton-abbey-s5-spoiler-free-until-broadcast-in-the-u-s/694244/467 "2015-02-24T15:37:10Z")
> [@leahcim](#): > > Maybe financially they are on the same level as Isobel, who seems to not need to work, but needs to be frugal to maintain that situation. Well maybe Shrimpie can marry Lord Merton if Isobel doesn’t want to ;). ---
**Author:** ![John\_Bredin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/96bed5/32.png) [@John\_Bredin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Bredin)\ **Post date:** [February 24, 2015, 3:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/downton-abbey-s5-spoiler-free-until-broadcast-in-the-u-s/694244/468 "2015-02-24T15:41:08Z")
> [@Dewey\_Finn](#): > > I gathered that they’re _not_ “still fabulously rich” given that they came to Grantham House without any servants whatsoever, not even a lady’s maid or a valet. Household staff was still relatively cheap then, so if they did have some money, they could afford at least one or two staff. I dare say they _have_ a servant or two in their home. I can see Shrimpie and Bitchy dressing themselves, but not cleaning their own house or cooking their own meals. :dubious:😛 Even Matthew and his mother, who have been known to humble-brag how they can dress themselves and don’t need a valet/lady’s maid :p, had a household servant or two long before the Downton inheritance fell on Matthew when he was merely a middle-class solicitor. ---
**Author:** ![Miss\_Woodhouse](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/838e76/32.png) [@Miss\_Woodhouse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miss_Woodhouse)\ **Post date:** [February 24, 2015, 5:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/downton-abbey-s5-spoiler-free-until-broadcast-in-the-u-s/694244/469 "2015-02-24T17:01:14Z")
Anna was in London the day Mr. Green died. Lady Mary had gone for one of her flying trips down. She wasn’t with Lady Mary at the time Mr. Green died so she can’t provide Anna with an alibi. It was a different day from the one when Anna delivered the letter by hand. ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [February 24, 2015, 5:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/downton-abbey-s5-spoiler-free-until-broadcast-in-the-u-s/694244/470 "2015-02-24T17:14:17Z")
> [@ThelmaLou](#): > > Nitpick: “Reform” not “Reformed.” Well, he certainly isn’t Anglicaned. 🙂 Thanks for the correction. Regards, Shodan People’s Front of Judea ---
**Author:** ![Sarabellum](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sarabellum/32/3492_2.png) [@Sarabellum](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sarabellum)\ **Post date:** [February 24, 2015, 11:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/downton-abbey-s5-spoiler-free-until-broadcast-in-the-u-s/694244/471 "2015-02-24T23:15:59Z")
Didn’t O’Brien defect to go be the lady’s maid for Lady Susan? Or did I misunderstand? I fully expected to see all kinds of angst over O’Brien’s guest spot, and I was very disappointed! 🙂 She didn’t even get a mention! ---
**Author:** ![Fair\_Rarity](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fair_rarity/32/153_2.png) [@Fair\_Rarity](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fair_Rarity)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2015, 2:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/downton-abbey-s5-spoiler-free-until-broadcast-in-the-u-s/694244/472 "2015-02-25T02:01:27Z")
> [@Sarabellum1976](#): > > Didn’t O’Brien defect to go be the lady’s maid for Lady Susan? Maybe SHE killed the rapist! ---
**Author:** ![alphaboi867](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alphaboi867/32/3898_2.png) [@alphaboi867](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/alphaboi867)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2015, 2:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/downton-abbey-s5-spoiler-free-until-broadcast-in-the-u-s/694244/473 "2015-02-25T02:06:42Z")
> [@cwthree](#): > > Money would certainly go farther in India, but remember that diplomats are typically expected to entertain quite a bit as part of their job. Those expenses may not be reimbursed or covered by the Crown. A diplomat like Shrimpie might have had the exchange rate working in his favor, but he also very likely would have had to throw parties, receptions, etc. much more frequently than the Crawleys. Not to mention that all that’s contingent on Shrimpie & Susan playing a happy couple in public, which they can’t do anymore. They hate each other so much that even separation isn’t an option; they’ve divorcing which mean’s Shrimpie’s career is over. > [@John\_Bredin](#): > > I dare say they _have_ a servant or two in their home. I can see Shrimpie and Bitchy dressing themselves, but not cleaning their own house or cooking their own meals. :dubious:😛 > Even Matthew and his mother, who have been known to humble-brag how they can dress themselves and don’t need a valet/lady’s maid :p, had a household servant or two long before the Downton inheritance fell on Matthew when he was merely a middle-class solicitor. Plus they did just move back from India; they haven’t had time to set up 2 separate households. My WAG is Susan get’s a townhouse about the size of Isobel’s with a cook & a maid, and Shrimpie moves into a serviced bachelor flat like Tony or that card shark live in. > [@Sarabellum1976](#): > > Didn’t O’Brien defect to go be the lady’s maid for Lady Susan? > > Or did I misunderstand? I fully expected to see all kinds of angst over O’Brien’s guest spot, and I was very disappointed! 🙂 > > She didn’t even get a mention! I think she found a new mistress and stayed behind in India. ---
**Author:** ![corkboard](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e9bcb4/32.png) [@corkboard](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/corkboard)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2015, 2:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/downton-abbey-s5-spoiler-free-until-broadcast-in-the-u-s/694244/474 "2015-02-25T14:58:22Z")
So Susan’s great criminal mind hatched a devious plan to put an end to the wedding by hiring someone to take pictures of some tart putting the moves on her son. Brilliant, except for one minor detail- she wrote a freaking check. If it wasn’t for the checkstub showing payment to Rent-A-Harlot, it would have been an airtight setup. ---
**Author:** ![Dewey\_Finn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dewey_finn/32/4222_2.png) [@Dewey\_Finn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dewey_Finn)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2015, 3:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/downton-abbey-s5-spoiler-free-until-broadcast-in-the-u-s/694244/475 "2015-02-25T15:05:01Z")
Not her son; her daughter’s fiancé. ---
**Author:** ![leahcim](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/b4bc9f/32.png) [@leahcim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/leahcim)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2015, 3:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/downton-abbey-s5-spoiler-free-until-broadcast-in-the-u-s/694244/476 "2015-02-25T15:54:56Z")
> [@corkboard](#): > > If it wasn’t for the checkstub showing payment to Rent-A-Harlot, it would have been an airtight setup. I bet the check bounces, too. 🙂 (I think the checkstub was for the photographer, not the harlot rental, though. Which is still suspicious, but not _as_ obvious. There are lots of reasons to hire a photographer, especially around a wedding.) ---
**Author:** ![ThelmaLou](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thelmalou/32/390_2.png) [@ThelmaLou](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ThelmaLou)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2015, 4:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/downton-abbey-s5-spoiler-free-until-broadcast-in-the-u-s/694244/477 "2015-02-25T16:03:30Z")
> [@corkboard](#): > > So Susan’s great criminal mind hatched a devious plan to put an end to the wedding by hiring someone to take pictures of some tart putting the moves on her son… > [@Dewey\_Finn](#): > > Not her son; her daughter’s fiancé. Actually, she should have hired Barrow to put the moves on Atticus. Hell, he’d prolly have done it for free. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2015, 5:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/downton-abbey-s5-spoiler-free-until-broadcast-in-the-u-s/694244/478 "2015-02-25T17:33:25Z")
> [@ThelmaLou](#): > > . > > Agree that arresting Anna strains credulity. Is she gonna spend all next season in jail like Mr. B did awhile back? > Yeah, Tom, give up this cushy life where your daughter has loving grandparents and cousins and move to a flat in Boston and work for a living-- that’s the ticket. Dufus. Yes, they have no motive, means or opportunity, just a witness that sez someone _who looked like her_ \*\*stood near the victim. \*\* Hell, there’s little evidence it was a murder. Yeah the Tom going to Boston thing is dumb. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2015, 6:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/downton-abbey-s5-spoiler-free-until-broadcast-in-the-u-s/694244/479 "2015-02-25T18:01:49Z")
> [@Chefguy](#): > > I groaned out loud when she was arrested. Yes, and Lord Grantham is a Earl (thus a Peer) and the Lord Lieutenant. No Constable is going to be rude to him. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2015, 6:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/downton-abbey-s5-spoiler-free-until-broadcast-in-the-u-s/694244/480 "2015-02-25T18:26:32Z")
> [@TruCelt](#): > > Wasn’t Anna in London at the time? Wasn’t there something about her taking a message by hand instead of mailing it? Walking to the place? Am I conflating another storyline? > > . No, that was when, later, she visited the crime scene, which _of course_ the police had staked out. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/downton-abbey-s5-spoiler-free-until-broadcast-in-the-u-s/694244.md?page=23) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/downton-abbey-s5-spoiler-free-until-broadcast-in-the-u-s/694244.md?page=25)