# Downton Abbey S5 - spoiler-free until broadcast in the U.S. **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [July 28, 2014, 3:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/downton-abbey-s5-spoiler-free-until-broadcast-in-the-u-s/694244 "2014-07-28T15:03:38Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![ISiddiqui](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/97f17d/32.png) [@ISiddiqui](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ISiddiqui)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2015, 3:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/downton-abbey-s5-spoiler-free-until-broadcast-in-the-u-s/694244/41 "2015-01-06T15:37:33Z")
I think we all know why we are watching this show ;). We like evening soaps starring folks with different accents which gently (but not too much, thank you) touches on issues of class. Where’s the confusion? 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2015, 7:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/downton-abbey-s5-spoiler-free-until-broadcast-in-the-u-s/694244/42 "2015-01-06T19:46:11Z")
Reiterating my deep and abiding love for Maggie Smith. Now she’s scheming to marry off her rival for dowager head of the village. Beautiful. The Mary-Tony pairing just seems wrong. Now they are going to run off and boink for a week so she can be sure he is The One to replace Matthew. Meh - she is too strong a character. They should marry off James with Lady Whosit for some real scandal. Daisy wants to learn arithmetic. And a teacher shows up just in time for Tom to chase her (and be re-radicalized) . How convenient. I thought Daisy didn’t want to be a farmer - now she is slaving away at her school books to better herself. Hmm. And I didn’t much care about the plot device where Carson was the chair of the memorial committee and refused because it hurt Lord Grantham’s feelings. Not enough development of Lord G.'s feeling guilty for not fighting, or otherwise feeling left out from changing times and traditions. His upper lip was too stiff to generate much sympathy. Lady Rose seems to have calmed down a lot. How unfortunate. Now Lady Edith is going to adopt her own daughter. Too pat - the crofter should change his mind and blackmail her instead. And Gregson should return from Germany with amnesia or something to complete the soap opera story arc. [QUOTE=jsc1953] Nothing to add, I’m just subscribing so I get notice when the “Downton Abbey on Facebook” is updated. [/QUOTE] My week is never complete without it. 😃 Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![hajario](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hajario/32/171_2.png) [@hajario](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hajario)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2015, 8:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/downton-abbey-s5-spoiler-free-until-broadcast-in-the-u-s/694244/43 "2015-01-06T20:02:33Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > Reiterating my deep and abiding love for Maggie Smith. Now she’s scheming to marry off her rival for dowager head of the village. Beautiful. I think it’s more to keep it from being Isobel. She is pushing the good doctor to get cozy with her. > [@](#): > > And I didn’t much care about the plot device where Carson was the chair of the memorial committee and refused because it hurt Lord Grantham’s feelings. Not enough development of Lord G.'s feeling guilty for not fighting, or otherwise feeling left out from changing times and traditions. His upper lip was too stiff to generate much sympathy. Lord G did fight in the Boer War and was decorated. He has no reason to be ashamed. The Baxter story is what is strange to me. Why did she steal the jewels? ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2015, 8:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/downton-abbey-s5-spoiler-free-until-broadcast-in-the-u-s/694244/44 "2015-01-06T20:12:37Z")
> [@hajario](#): > > I think it’s more to keep it from being Isobel. She is pushing the good doctor to get cozy with her. Yes, marry the doctor instead of the peer. > [@](#): > > Lord G did fight in the Boer War and was decorated. He has no reason to be ashamed. He mentioned in passing that he could not fight in WWI, and felt like he had not done his bit. And this was a WWI memorial. Although Carson fought no more in WWI than Lord G did. That also did not quite work as a plot device - choosing the butler of the great house, instead of the squire, but still expecting the squire to donate the land and no doubt much of the funding is not much of a break with tradition. > [@](#): > > The Baxter story is what is strange to me. Why did she steal the jewels? I’m guessing a boyfriend or husband, who needed the bail money and skipped. Maybe it will be a reprise of the Bates/Mrs.Bates plot arc of earlier. He will return and blackmail her, or she will suffer emotionally over her loyalty to him. etc. (Of course there’s no “maybe” - she will suffer emotionally over something). Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![zbuzz](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/e19b73/32.png) [@zbuzz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/zbuzz)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2015, 9:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/downton-abbey-s5-spoiler-free-until-broadcast-in-the-u-s/694244/45 "2015-01-07T09:02:31Z")
What was the deal with Spratt not wanting to serve Dr. Clarkson? Clarkson has been coming to the Dowager’s house for like 10 years now. I imagine we’ll find out soon enough, but it seems rather out of the blue. Edith put the baby picture of Marigold under her pillow but we never saw the bed itself catch fire. Wonder if that comes into play? ---
**Author:** ![zbuzz](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/e19b73/32.png) [@zbuzz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/zbuzz)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2015, 10:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/downton-abbey-s5-spoiler-free-until-broadcast-in-the-u-s/694244/46 "2015-01-07T10:31:29Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > He mentioned in passing that he could not fight in WWI, and felt like he had not done his bit. And this was a WWI memorial. Although Carson fought no more in WWI than Lord G did. That also did not quite work as a plot device - choosing the butler of the great house, instead of the squire, but still expecting the squire to donate the land and no doubt much of the funding is not much of a break with tradition. Why does it not seem like a break with tradition? It works as a plot device because the entire show has been about change. The Dowager says to Robert “Your father always told the village what they wanted,” and Robert laments to Mary, “Would the village in my grandfather’s day have asked his butler to head an appeal?” He even says to Carson, “Maybe this will be a new tradition.” That seems to imply a break with tradition. > [@Shodan](#): > > The Mary-Tony pairing just seems wrong. Now they are going to run off and boink for a week so she can be sure he is The One to replace Matthew. Meh - she is too strong a character. Mary says, “The older I get, the more I feel we do these things very oddly. What could be more important than making sure that side of things is right before we tie ourselves together forever?” She’s beginning to recognize some of the absurdities of the lifestyle she’s spent so much time defending. That’s character growth and it brings Mary more in line with the theme of changing times. I don’t know what you think makes her a strong character, but I think breaking with a useless tradition for the right reason (for her, to make sure Tony is Teh One), makes her a strong character. > [@Shodan](#): > > I thought Daisy didn’t want to be a farmer - now she is slaving away at her school books to better herself. Hmm. I don’t think Daisy ever said she didn’t want to be a farmer. But she questions whether she’s up for it (i.e., change). She says to Mrs. Patmore, “I want to be grown up, I want responsibility. I can’t follow orders here for the rest of my life.” So it looks like she wants to prepare for the day she does take over the farm (or at least moves on), doesn’t it? Does that not ring true to you? ---
**Author:** ![zbuzz](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/e19b73/32.png) [@zbuzz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/zbuzz)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2015, 12:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/downton-abbey-s5-spoiler-free-until-broadcast-in-the-u-s/694244/47 "2015-01-07T12:01:39Z")
> [@delphica](#): > > Agreed that the teacher’s behavior was completely inaccurate. Someone worldly enough to know that she shouldn’t accept an invitation that wasn’t from Cora directly would also be socially aware enough not to raise those issues at a dinner where she was a guest. The biggest thing that jumped out at me was that she was the initiator – it would have played better to me if the other guests had steered the conversation to the point where she had to respond truthfully (and that also would have made Isobel’s comments about standing up for one’s beliefs seem more genuine). I’ve ended up really disliking this character, and I think the show believes the audience will find her sympathetic. And she wasn’t even wearing gloves to dinner. Stone cold. > [@John\_Bredin](#): > > The teacher’s behavior at dinner struck me as historically inaccurate. Of course, there were clearly people in the 1910s-20s with such views, and even more radical. However, I doubt one would be hired as a primary schoolteacher, especially in a rural-ish school as in Downton, unless she developed an ability to keep her more controversial opinions to herself except with closest friends. And she would know – or at least believe without a doubt 🙂 – that an aristocratic family would be even more conservative and unlikely to be amused by such views than a middle-class small-town school board. :smack: > > Plus opposing a war memorial was an odd “hill to choose to die on” at dinner considering, again, that lower- and middle-class people fought and died in the war and most would have wanted to memorialize the war dead even if they personally felt the war was pointless. :smack: Her stance would have angered a group of farmers or factory workers almost as much as it angered many at the Downton dinner table. If she had stuck to arguing about the Labor PM (as others in the episode did), Julian Fellowes would still have shown her to be liberal and outspoken without making her into a tone-deaf asshole. :mad: Angering people, outspoken and a tone-deaf asshole…maybe she turns out to be Doc Martin’s grandmother. ---
**Author:** ![StarvingButStrong](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/starvingbutstrong/32/335_2.png) [@StarvingButStrong](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/StarvingButStrong)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2015, 2:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/downton-abbey-s5-spoiler-free-until-broadcast-in-the-u-s/694244/48 "2015-01-07T14:11:21Z")
I just watched it. It felt disjointed to me, all short flashes to catch up with way too many plot lines: Here’s Robert, yep, still stuffy and out of pace. Here’s Edith, yep, still suffering over her daughter. Here’s Thomas, yep, still scheming. Here’s Cora, yep, still … Cora. I think this may be the last season for me. Especially if it turns into another year where we’re supposed to be all caught up in Mary’s love life. I simply _don’t_ find her at all appealing as a character. ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2015, 4:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/downton-abbey-s5-spoiler-free-until-broadcast-in-the-u-s/694244/49 "2015-01-07T16:08:54Z")
I agree that the schoolteacher’s misstep over the village war memorial was so egregious as to be implausible. She doesn’t seem dumb - can’t she see how offensive such views would be to her host and hostess? I like the grandchild calling Lord Grantham “Dunk.” Very cute. Poor Molesley and his shiny blue hair. My wife and I thought the Dowager Countess (Maggie Smith, as wonderful as ever) might’ve been trying to spur Isobel to step up to the plate to snag Lord Whatsisface. If Isobel saw there was another woman who might win his favor, she might be more assertive. When the Earl was visiting his mother the Dowager, he was looking at a card on her mantelpiece. Her expression was very odd. Anyone else notice that? Was she trying to hide something? It’ll be a shame to lose Jimmy if, in fact, he gets canned for boinking his former employer the night of the fire. Lady Mary didn’t seem to take much time considering Lord Gillingham’s indecent proposal. “Well… OK, but we’re not gonna tell anyone else, right?” I could just imagine his internal _“Yesssssss!”_ ---
**Author:** ![jsc1953](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/5daacb/32.png) [@jsc1953](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jsc1953)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2015, 4:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/downton-abbey-s5-spoiler-free-until-broadcast-in-the-u-s/694244/50 "2015-01-07T16:23:08Z")
> [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](#): > > When the Earl was visiting his mother the Dowager, he was looking at a card on her mantelpiece. Her expression was very odd. Anyone else notice that? Was she trying to hide something? I noticed, and kept waiting for the other shoe to drop. Maybe next week. ---
**Author:** ![delphica](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e9a140/32.png) [@delphica](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/delphica)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2015, 4:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/downton-abbey-s5-spoiler-free-until-broadcast-in-the-u-s/694244/51 "2015-01-07T16:33:16Z")
> [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](#): > > When the Earl was visiting his mother the Dowager, he was looking at a card on her mantelpiece. Her expression was very odd. Anyone else notice that? Was she trying to hide something? Yes! Very strange and out of character for her. ---
**Author:** ![Lamia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/8e7dd6/32.png) [@Lamia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lamia)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2015, 6:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/downton-abbey-s5-spoiler-free-until-broadcast-in-the-u-s/694244/52 "2015-01-07T18:47:55Z")
> [@StarvingButStrong](#): > > I think this may be the last season for me. Especially if it turns into another year where we’re supposed to be all caught up in Mary’s love life. I simply _don’t_ find her at all appealing as a character. I have a hard time buying that Mary is considered such a great catch to all these eligible bachelors. Sure, she’s good-looking, intelligent, wealthy, and well-bred…but she’s not getting any younger, she’s a widow and a mother, much of her fortune is wrapped up in an estate that her son will inherit, and she’s not a particularly nice person. It seems like Rose, or even poor Edith, would be attracting more suitors than Mary now. > [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](#): > > When the Earl was visiting his mother the Dowager, he was looking at a card on her mantelpiece. Her expression was very odd. Anyone else notice that? Was she trying to hide something? I was confused by that too, but since they were talking about the party Violet was arranging I assumed it was an RSVP from one of the guests and she didn’t want her son to realize she was playing puppetmaster. I did see a spoiler about one of the storylines this season, and I suppose it might have been related to that instead. Supposedly the Dowager has a suitor of her own, presumably some old (very old) flame, and the card might have been a letter from him. ---
**Author:** ![ISiddiqui](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/97f17d/32.png) [@ISiddiqui](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ISiddiqui)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2015, 7:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/downton-abbey-s5-spoiler-free-until-broadcast-in-the-u-s/694244/53 "2015-01-07T19:54:05Z")
> [@Lamia](#): > > I have a hard time buying that Mary is considered such a great catch to all these eligible bachelors. Sure, she’s good-looking, intelligent, wealthy, and well-bred…but she’s not getting any younger, she’s a widow and a mother, much of her fortune is wrapped up in an estate that her son will inherit, and she’s not a particularly nice person. It seems like Rose, or even poor Edith, would be attracting more suitors than Mary now. She’s far better looking than Edith… but also due to the reforms that Mary and Tom have put in, Downton is in a FAR better financial place than other locales. Even Gillingham hasn’t replaced his valet partially because he doesn’t have the money for it. Even if the money goes to the kid, it’d be living in a luxurious setting that is getting more and more rare for the aristocracy in this period. ---
**Author:** ![Amateur\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/59ef9b/32.png) [@Amateur\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Amateur_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2015, 8:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/downton-abbey-s5-spoiler-free-until-broadcast-in-the-u-s/694244/54 "2015-01-07T20:43:20Z")
It looks like they’ve run out of good stories, mostly by failing to allow any of the characters or situations to evolve much. I sincerely hope they’ll let it all go after this season. ---
**Author:** ![Chefguy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chefguy/32/138_2.png) [@Chefguy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chefguy)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2015, 9:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/downton-abbey-s5-spoiler-free-until-broadcast-in-the-u-s/694244/55 "2015-01-07T21:04:11Z")
I’m so glad that unending subplot with Thomas and Baxter is mostly at an end. “I know you know something.” “I don’t know anything!” “You know something!” “I know noooothing!” Jesus Christ on a fucking crutch. There was a good program following that episode called (I think) “Downton Manners”, which was interesting. They have an expert adviser on set to coach them all in Edwardian manners and mannerisms. ---
**Author:** ![jsc1953](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/5daacb/32.png) [@jsc1953](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jsc1953)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2015, 9:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/downton-abbey-s5-spoiler-free-until-broadcast-in-the-u-s/694244/56 "2015-01-07T21:05:44Z")
> [@Chefguy](#): > > I’m so glad that unending subplot with Thomas and Baxter is mostly at an end. “I know you know something.” “I don’t know anything!” “You know something!” “I know noooothing!” Jesus Christ on a fucking crutch. > > There was a good program following that episode called (I think) “Downton Manners”, which was interesting. They have an expert adviser on set to coach them all in Edwardian manners and mannerisms. Saw it, and it was fascinating. I liked the ritual “turn” at dinner – on the count of 3, talk to the person on your left. ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2015, 9:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/downton-abbey-s5-spoiler-free-until-broadcast-in-the-u-s/694244/57 "2015-01-07T21:28:13Z")
I still have it on my DVR, but haven’t watched it yet. ---
**Author:** ![StarvingButStrong](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/starvingbutstrong/32/335_2.png) [@StarvingButStrong](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/StarvingButStrong)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2015, 10:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/downton-abbey-s5-spoiler-free-until-broadcast-in-the-u-s/694244/58 "2015-01-07T22:27:13Z")
> [@jsc1953](#): > > Saw it, and it was fascinating. I liked the ritual “turn” at dinner – on the count of 3, talk to the person on your left. But it has to be more complicated than that – if everyone turns to the left, everyone will be talking to the back of the head of that person. So the table must be broken down in pairs, and you have to count off how many people you are away from the hostess. If you are an ‘even’ number, turn the same way, but ‘odds’ have to turn the opposite. ---
**Author:** ![AlsoNamedBort](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alsonamedbort/32/3213_2.png) [@AlsoNamedBort](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AlsoNamedBort)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2015, 11:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/downton-abbey-s5-spoiler-free-until-broadcast-in-the-u-s/694244/59 "2015-01-07T23:15:07Z")
> [@Chefguy](#): > > I’m so glad that unending subplot with Thomas and Baxter is mostly at an end. “I know you know something.” “I don’t know anything!” “You know something!” “I know noooothing!” Jesus Christ on a fucking crutch. I hope because of that we get an Anna/Bates storyline that isn’t “Bates may or may not be a murderer” this year. But probably not. ---
**Author:** ![jsc1953](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/5daacb/32.png) [@jsc1953](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jsc1953)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2015, 11:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/downton-abbey-s5-spoiler-free-until-broadcast-in-the-u-s/694244/60 "2015-01-07T23:42:13Z")
> [@StarvingButStrong](#): > > But it has to be more complicated than that – if everyone turns to the left, everyone will be talking to the back of the head of that person. So the table must be broken down in pairs, and you have to count off how many people you are away from the hostess. If you are an ‘even’ number, turn the same way, but ‘odds’ have to turn the opposite. Yeah, I thought of that as soon as I wrote. If I was writing Edwardian dining rules, I’d start the meal with men turning to the woman on their right, and then halfway through men pivot to address the woman on their left. Women stay put. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/downton-abbey-s5-spoiler-free-until-broadcast-in-the-u-s/694244.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/downton-abbey-s5-spoiler-free-until-broadcast-in-the-u-s/694244.md?page=4)