# Downton Abbey S5 - spoiler-free until broadcast in the U.S. **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [July 28, 2014, 3:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/downton-abbey-s5-spoiler-free-until-broadcast-in-the-u-s/694244 "2014-07-28T15:03:38Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![zbuzz](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/e19b73/32.png) [@zbuzz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/zbuzz)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2015, 1:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/downton-abbey-s5-spoiler-free-until-broadcast-in-the-u-s/694244/61 "2015-01-08T01:55:09Z")
> [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](#): > > When the Earl was visiting his mother the Dowager, he was looking at a card on her mantelpiece. Her expression was very odd. Anyone else notice that? Was she trying to hide something? She doesn’t seem to mind him picking up the card. She doesn’t get that expression on her face (accompanied by some “pay attention” type music) until Robert playfully mentions that if Isobel becomes Lady Merton, she could become “a great lady of the county and put us all in our place.” In other words, serious social competition for the Dowager. Which is why she invites Lady Shackleton to cock block Lord Merton. What I thought was weirder was that the Dowager was talking about how tired she was from attending two parties in one day and then she slipped out of Downton with almost no one noticing. I hope that’s not foreshadowing something bad for her. They’ve already done the “the Dowager is sick” story, so I don’t want next weeks episode to start with her funeral. ---
**Author:** ![Tangent](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tangent/32/3098_2.png) [@Tangent](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tangent)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2015, 2:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/downton-abbey-s5-spoiler-free-until-broadcast-in-the-u-s/694244/62 "2015-01-08T02:15:31Z")
> [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](#): > > I still have it on my DVR, but haven’t watched it yet. Keep us updated. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![alphaboi867](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alphaboi867/32/3898_2.png) [@alphaboi867](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/alphaboi867)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2015, 3:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/downton-abbey-s5-spoiler-free-until-broadcast-in-the-u-s/694244/63 "2015-01-08T03:40:36Z")
> [@zbuzz](#): > > What was the deal with Spratt not wanting to serve Dr. Clarkson? Clarkson has been coming to the Dowager’s house for like 10 years now. I imagine we’ll find out soon enough, but it seems rather out of the blue… Fellowes likes to play with servants sharing & exceeding their masters’ snobbishness. ---
**Author:** ![jharvey963](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/54ee81/32.png) [@jharvey963](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jharvey963)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2015, 11:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/downton-abbey-s5-spoiler-free-until-broadcast-in-the-u-s/694244/64 "2015-01-08T23:12:21Z")
> [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](#): > > My wife and I thought the Dowager Countess (Maggie Smith, as wonderful as ever) might’ve been trying to spur Isobel to step up to the plate to snag Lord Whatsisface. If Isobel saw there was another woman who might win his favor, she might be more assertive. I think it was just the opposite. Earlier in the episode she mentions something about Lord Whatsisface wanting to spend more time with Isobel, (or was it the other way around?) and the other person (Robert?) saying something like “it will be good to have another “grande dame” around” – to which the Dowager Countess gets a funny look on her face, realizing it would be a threat to her position as Queen Bee at Downton. Add to that the tension between Isobel and the Dowager Countess, and I think she was trying to torpedo any union of Isobel and Lord Whatsisface. Inviting several other people, including the very eligible Lady Shackleton, seemed like a way to steer Lord Whatsisface away from Isobel. J. ---
**Author:** ![Green\_Bean](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/green_bean/32/1760_2.png) [@Green\_Bean](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Green_Bean)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2015, 11:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/downton-abbey-s5-spoiler-free-until-broadcast-in-the-u-s/694244/65 "2015-01-08T23:55:19Z")
And I took it as the Dowager trying to make Isobel a little jealous so she’d take a greater interest in Lord Whatshisface. [Tom and Lorenzo come down on the side of those that think the Dowager was cock-blocking Isobel.](http://tomandlorenzo.com/2015/01/downton-abbey-should-auld-acquaintance-be-forgot/) I wonder whether it was deliberately ambiguous. Hopefully the next episode will clear things up. ---
**Author:** ![hajario](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hajario/32/171_2.png) [@hajario](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hajario)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2015, 11:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/downton-abbey-s5-spoiler-free-until-broadcast-in-the-u-s/694244/66 "2015-01-08T23:56:35Z")
> [@Green\_Bean](#): > > And I took it as the Dowager trying to make Isobel a little jealous so she’d take a greater interest in Lord Whatshisface. > > [Tom and Lorenzo come down on the side of those that think the Dowager was cock-blocking Isobel.](http://tomandlorenzo.com/2015/01/downton-abbey-should-auld-acquaintance-be-forgot/) > > I wonder whether it was deliberately ambiguous. Hopefully the next episode will clear things up. I am going to vote for sloppy writing. I am with Tom and Lorenzo though. ---
**Author:** ![FeAudrey](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/7feea3/32.png) [@FeAudrey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FeAudrey)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2015, 4:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/downton-abbey-s5-spoiler-free-until-broadcast-in-the-u-s/694244/67 "2015-01-09T04:08:53Z")
> [@Chefguy](#): > > … “Downton Manners” … an expert adviser on set to coach them all in Edwardian manners and mannerisms … These references to “Edwardian” have been driving me nuts. King Edward died in 1910; “Downton Abbey” opened with the sinking of the _Titanic_, which was in 1912. Alastair Bruce (“Manners” presenter) is billed as the series’ “historical advisor”; he should be more historical. Yeah, I know, “Edwardian” is a sort of shorthand for “from Queen Victoria’s Diamond Jubilee to the outbreak of World War One”. Nonetheless, from 1910 to 1936, King George is Da Man. ---
**Author:** ![jsc1953](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/5daacb/32.png) [@jsc1953](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jsc1953)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2015, 2:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/downton-abbey-s5-spoiler-free-until-broadcast-in-the-u-s/694244/68 "2015-01-09T14:56:23Z")
> [@FeAudrey](#): > > Yeah, I know, “Edwardian” is a sort of shorthand for “from Queen Victoria’s Diamond Jubilee to the outbreak of World War One”. Nonetheless, from 1910 to 1936, King George is Da Man. Yeah, but “Georgian” is already taken. ---
**Author:** ![Chefguy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chefguy/32/138_2.png) [@Chefguy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chefguy)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2015, 3:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/downton-abbey-s5-spoiler-free-until-broadcast-in-the-u-s/694244/69 "2015-01-09T15:13:10Z")
> [@FeAudrey](#): > > These references to “Edwardian” have been driving me nuts. King Edward died in 1910; “Downton Abbey” opened with the sinking of the _Titanic_, which was in 1912. Alastair Bruce (“Manners” presenter) is billed as the series’ “historical advisor”; he should be more historical. > > Yeah, I know, “Edwardian” is a sort of shorthand for “from Queen Victoria’s Diamond Jubilee to the outbreak of World War One”. Nonetheless, from 1910 to 1936, King George is Da Man. The guy isn’t saying that this takes place in Edwardian England, just that they are Edwardian manners, which I would suspect carried over for some time after the man died. ---
**Author:** ![Lamia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/8e7dd6/32.png) [@Lamia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lamia)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2015, 4:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/downton-abbey-s5-spoiler-free-until-broadcast-in-the-u-s/694244/70 "2015-01-09T16:15:06Z")
> [@ISiddiqui](#): > > She’s far better looking than Edith… but also due to the reforms that Mary and Tom have put in, Downton is in a FAR better financial place than other locales. Even Gillingham hasn’t replaced his valet partially because he doesn’t have the money for it. Even if the money goes to the kid, it’d be living in a luxurious setting that is getting more and more rare for the aristocracy in this period. I wouldn’t think that getting to live in someone else’s grand country house would be that big a draw for a man born into the aristocracy. If Mary had inherited the whole estate outright then that would be one thing, but it’s not just the money but the house, land, and title that will go to baby George in time. As I understand it, her second husband and any children they have together would have no claim on any of this, and if George felt like it he could kick them to the curb once he inherited. A man who wants to live in comfort would be better off doing like the current Lord Grantham and marrying a woman with lots of money, and a man who just wants a pretty bride from a suitable family would presumably be more interested in the much younger Rose. ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2015, 8:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/downton-abbey-s5-spoiler-free-until-broadcast-in-the-u-s/694244/71 "2015-01-09T20:02:52Z")
I know I would be! Mrowrrrrrrr. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Bredin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/96bed5/32.png) [@John\_Bredin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Bredin)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2015, 8:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/downton-abbey-s5-spoiler-free-until-broadcast-in-the-u-s/694244/72 "2015-01-09T20:42:03Z")
> [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](#): > > I know I would be! Mrowrrrrrrr. Your prospects would depend almost entirely on one question: how much will you piss off Rose’s mother? 😛 ---
**Author:** ![StarvingButStrong](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/starvingbutstrong/32/335_2.png) [@StarvingButStrong](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/StarvingButStrong)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2015, 12:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/downton-abbey-s5-spoiler-free-until-broadcast-in-the-u-s/694244/73 "2015-01-10T00:27:48Z")
So, how old is Mary likely to be now? She was of age to be married when the Titanic sank, so18 at least in 1912. (Though she looked and acted older than that to me) And “now” it’s 1924 so 30+. Which isn’t ancient, of course, but since it appears one of the major driving forces between aristocratic marriages is producing heirs… And in that case, the odds are better if you marry a just-out girl rather than the 30-something widow. ---
**Author:** ![FeAudrey](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/7feea3/32.png) [@FeAudrey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FeAudrey)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2015, 12:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/downton-abbey-s5-spoiler-free-until-broadcast-in-the-u-s/694244/74 "2015-01-10T00:51:39Z")
> [@StarvingButStrong](#): > > … how old is Mary … Season Five is set in 1924. Robert and Cora are celebrating their 34th wedding anniversary, so were married in 1890. Some early-season internal evidence, which I can’t exactly recall, established Mary’s birthdate as 1892, so she’s 32. Sybil was presented, which typically takes place at age 18, the summer that World War One broke out, 1914, so she was likely born in 1896. Edith is in the middle, so presumably born in 1894, which would make her 30. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2015, 1:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/downton-abbey-s5-spoiler-free-until-broadcast-in-the-u-s/694244/75 "2015-01-10T01:02:02Z")
> [@Green\_Bean](#): > > And I took it as the Dowager trying to make Isobel a little jealous so she’d take a greater interest in Lord Whatshisface. > > [Tom and Lorenzo come down on the side of those that think the Dowager was cock-blocking Isobel.](http://tomandlorenzo.com/2015/01/downton-abbey-should-auld-acquaintance-be-forgot/) > > I wonder whether it was deliberately ambiguous. Hopefully the next episode will clear things up. I took it as cunt-blocking (can’t quite imagine the ladies doing any cock-blocking), and definitely thought Dowager did not like the idea of Isobel becoming a grand lady. ---
**Author:** ![Tangent](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tangent/32/3098_2.png) [@Tangent](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tangent)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2015, 1:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/downton-abbey-s5-spoiler-free-until-broadcast-in-the-u-s/694244/76 "2015-01-10T01:23:35Z")
I agree, and I don’t think it was ambiguous at all. ---
**Author:** ![alphaboi867](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alphaboi867/32/3898_2.png) [@alphaboi867](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/alphaboi867)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2015, 3:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/downton-abbey-s5-spoiler-free-until-broadcast-in-the-u-s/694244/77 "2015-01-10T03:00:55Z")
> [@FeAudrey](#): > > …Some early-season internal evidence, which I can’t exactly recall, established Mary’s birthdate as 1892, so she’s 32… Very early on (maybe in the pilot) the Dowager made a comment about Mary already having gone though four (social seasons) without getting an engagement; which would mean she was born in 1890 or ‘91. Of course whatever inconsistencies there are with characters’ ages on Downton pales in comparison with **Upstairs, Downstairs** ’s issues. ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2015, 3:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/downton-abbey-s5-spoiler-free-until-broadcast-in-the-u-s/694244/78 "2015-01-10T03:44:51Z")
Saw _Downton Manners_ and liked it. I’d heard or read a lot of it before, but it was interestingly presented. ---
**Author:** ![Green\_Bean](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/green_bean/32/1760_2.png) [@Green\_Bean](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Green_Bean)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2015, 7:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/downton-abbey-s5-spoiler-free-until-broadcast-in-the-u-s/694244/79 "2015-01-12T19:44:05Z")
Well, that was a dull episode. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2015, 7:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/downton-abbey-s5-spoiler-free-until-broadcast-in-the-u-s/694244/80 "2015-01-12T19:54:23Z")
I get a few laughs. Listening to the wireless: Can he hear us, too? Buying contraception. But little miss school teacher’s story arc is getting irritating. And I still have my money on Marry not tying the knot with Gillingham. Too obvious. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/downton-abbey-s5-spoiler-free-until-broadcast-in-the-u-s/694244.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/downton-abbey-s5-spoiler-free-until-broadcast-in-the-u-s/694244.md?page=5)