# Downton Abbey S5 - spoiler-free until broadcast in the U.S. **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [July 28, 2014, 3:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/downton-abbey-s5-spoiler-free-until-broadcast-in-the-u-s/694244 "2014-07-28T15:03:38Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 9
**Author:** ![delphica](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e9a140/32.png) [@delphica](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/delphica)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2015, 6:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/downton-abbey-s5-spoiler-free-until-broadcast-in-the-u-s/694244/161 "2015-01-20T18:44:46Z")
> [@Dewey\_Finn](#): > > The subplot involving the Russian emigres was interesting. We all know that the royal family was shot, but it never occurred to me to wonder about the fate of the other royals and other members of the nobility. And did anyone else find it slightly odd that the Crawleys would devote their charitable efforts to relief for deposed royals and other nobles? Presumably there were poor refugees coming out of Russia as well. It seems to be really Rose’s thing, and I completely buy that in Rose’s mind, the fate of the Russian nobility is truly the most interesting and compelling cause you could possibly take up. The other family members are more supporting Rose than making actual charitable efforts for the Russians. ---
**Author:** ![delphica](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e9a140/32.png) [@delphica](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/delphica)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2015, 6:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/downton-abbey-s5-spoiler-free-until-broadcast-in-the-u-s/694244/162 "2015-01-20T18:46:56Z")
Oh, and my complaint is that both Edith and the guy (you know, the guy whose family is raising Marigold) are absolute idiots if they couldn’t figure out before now that Edith’s behavior is coming across as completely bizarre, and that his wife would find it unsettling, weird, and something to avoid. They really needed to come up with a better story. ---
**Author:** ![jsc1953](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/5daacb/32.png) [@jsc1953](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jsc1953)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2015, 6:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/downton-abbey-s5-spoiler-free-until-broadcast-in-the-u-s/694244/163 "2015-01-20T18:51:09Z")
> [@ThelmaLou](#): > > I wonder how Lord G is going to take the news that he doesn’t measure up? Don’t be vulgar! Or were you speaking metaphorically? 🙂 But yeah, apparently Tony is a dud in the sack, one way or another. It’s interesting how they’re giving us some insight into women’s sexuality of the times. “Ladies did not experience physical attraction until they were instructed to do so by their mama”…but you know that the Dowager knows that there is a disconnect between What Was Done and what was real. ---
**Author:** ![LavenderBlue](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/e95f7d/32.png) [@LavenderBlue](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LavenderBlue)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2015, 8:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/downton-abbey-s5-spoiler-free-until-broadcast-in-the-u-s/694244/164 "2015-01-20T20:40:21Z")
> [@delphica](#): > > Oh, and my complaint is that both Edith and the guy (you know, the guy whose family is raising Marigold) are absolute idiots if they couldn’t figure out before now that Edith’s behavior is coming across as completely bizarre, and that his wife would find it unsettling, weird, and something to avoid. They really needed to come up with a better story. I think the mother is an idiot for not figuring out that’s Edith’s daughter. The father figured it out in about ten seconds. Why can’t his wife do the same? ---
**Author:** ![Dewey\_Finn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dewey_finn/32/4222_2.png) [@Dewey\_Finn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dewey_Finn)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2015, 8:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/downton-abbey-s5-spoiler-free-until-broadcast-in-the-u-s/694244/165 "2015-01-20T20:47:30Z")
Perhaps she doesn’t care. As far as she’s concerned, she’s adopted the girl and the baby is hers now. ---
**Author:** ![alphaboi867](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alphaboi867/32/3898_2.png) [@alphaboi867](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/alphaboi867)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2015, 9:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/downton-abbey-s5-spoiler-free-until-broadcast-in-the-u-s/694244/166 "2015-01-20T21:41:07Z")
> [@jsc1953](#): > > …It’s interesting how they’re giving us some insight into women’s sexuality of the times. “Ladies did not experience physical attraction until they were instructed to do so by their mama”…but you know that the Dowager knows that there is a disconnect between What Was Done and what was real. Especially since Mary, being a widow, has already been so instructed by her Mama (& the Dowager knows all about Mr Pamuk ). I also wouldn’t be the least bit surprised to find she she actually consummated her relationship with Prince Kuragin. ---
**Author:** ![jsc1953](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/5daacb/32.png) [@jsc1953](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jsc1953)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2015, 10:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/downton-abbey-s5-spoiler-free-until-broadcast-in-the-u-s/694244/167 "2015-01-20T22:20:28Z")
> [@alphaboi867](#): > > Especially since Mary, being a widow, has already been so instructed by her Mama … One of the best bits of dialog, from last season, between Robert and Mary. Robert is going to America (that whole thing with Paul Giamatti) and bringing Barrow instead of Bates: Mary: It might be fun for Barrow, all those deck stewards prancing about. Robert: Don’t be vulgar. You shouldn’t know about such things. Mary: I’ve been married. I know everything. ---
**Author:** ![ThelmaLou](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thelmalou/32/390_2.png) [@ThelmaLou](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ThelmaLou)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2015, 11:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/downton-abbey-s5-spoiler-free-until-broadcast-in-the-u-s/694244/168 "2015-01-20T23:29:42Z")
> [@alphaboi867](#): > > Especially since Mary, being a widow, has already been so instructed by her Mama (& the Dowager knows all about Mr Pamuk ). I also wouldn’t be the least bit surprised to find she she actually consummated her relationship with Prince Kuragin. Does the Dowager know about Mr. Pamuk? I didn’t remember that. I’m losing track of characters and plot lines all over the place. As someone pointed out somewhere, the show spends 15-30 seconds on each scene and keeps about six pots boiling at a time. ---
**Author:** ![LavenderBlue](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/e95f7d/32.png) [@LavenderBlue](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LavenderBlue)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2015, 11:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/downton-abbey-s5-spoiler-free-until-broadcast-in-the-u-s/694244/169 "2015-01-20T23:32:27Z")
> [@ThelmaLou](#): > > Does the Dowager know about Mr. Pamuk? I didn’t remember that. > > I’m losing track of characters and plot lines all over the place. As someone pointed out somewhere, the show spends 15-30 seconds on each scene and keeps about six pots boiling at a time. Yeah. She directly confronted Cora over it in an episode. One wonders that she hasn’t fainted at all her granddaughter’s exploits. Robert finally finds out later on what Mary did. ---
**Author:** ![StarvingButStrong](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/starvingbutstrong/32/335_2.png) [@StarvingButStrong](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/StarvingButStrong)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2015, 11:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/downton-abbey-s5-spoiler-free-until-broadcast-in-the-u-s/694244/170 "2015-01-20T23:44:59Z")
> [@jsc1953](#): > > Don’t be vulgar! Or were you speaking metaphorically? 🙂 But yeah, apparently Tony is a dud in the sack, one way or another. Huh. The way I read the situation is that the sex was fine, but Mary discovered upon spending hours and hours in his company that all he had to offer _was_ sex. And once her itch had been scratched (euphemistic enough for you?) she realized the other guy was right about Lord G. being way less bright than she was. ---
**Author:** ![hajario](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hajario/32/171_2.png) [@hajario](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hajario)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2015, 11:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/downton-abbey-s5-spoiler-free-until-broadcast-in-the-u-s/694244/171 "2015-01-20T23:46:47Z")
> [@StarvingButStrong](#): > > Huh. The way I read the situation is that the sex was fine, but Mary discovered upon spending hours and hours in his company that all he had to offer _was_ sex. And once her itch had been scratched (euphemistic enough for you?) she realized the other guy was right about Lord G. being way less bright than she was. That was my take as well. His company bored her. ---
**Author:** ![jsc1953](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/5daacb/32.png) [@jsc1953](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jsc1953)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2015, 12:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/downton-abbey-s5-spoiler-free-until-broadcast-in-the-u-s/694244/172 "2015-01-21T00:00:48Z")
> [@hajario](#): > > That was my take as well. His company bored her. On the other hand: she knew plenty about his wit, intellect and dinner table conversation. She specifically agreed to the tryst to see how he was in bed; which leads me to the conclusion that the fault lay there. ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2015, 12:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/downton-abbey-s5-spoiler-free-until-broadcast-in-the-u-s/694244/173 "2015-01-21T00:39:47Z")
I presumed it was the whole, er, package. She just didn’t feel the spark she’d hoped to feel after a week in his company. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2015, 12:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/downton-abbey-s5-spoiler-free-until-broadcast-in-the-u-s/694244/174 "2015-01-21T00:51:39Z")
Cora needs to lose that stupid giggly/smiley way of talking. Drives me nuts. And I can’t believe how often they use that soap opera trick with the camera: - Two people talking - One says something that disturbs the other and then walks away - Camera zooms in on “troubled look” on the other person’s face Reminds me of _The Californians_ on SNL. Miss Bunting needs to be bunted out of the script. Her character is nothing but an eye-rolling generator. I have no doubt Bates killed Gillingham’s butler. And I have no doubt Marry isn’t marrying Gillingham. ---
**Author:** ![ThelmaLou](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thelmalou/32/390_2.png) [@ThelmaLou](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ThelmaLou)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2015, 1:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/downton-abbey-s5-spoiler-free-until-broadcast-in-the-u-s/694244/175 "2015-01-21T01:02:06Z")
> [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](#): > > I presumed it was the whole, er, package. She just didn’t feel the spark she’d hoped to feel after a week in his company. This is how I took it. The sex was okay, but the bedroom chemistry wasn’t enough to tip him into the win column. ---
**Author:** ![LavenderBlue](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/e95f7d/32.png) [@LavenderBlue](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LavenderBlue)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2015, 1:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/downton-abbey-s5-spoiler-free-until-broadcast-in-the-u-s/694244/176 "2015-01-21T01:02:34Z")
Fellows is incapable of writing a convincing character who has views he disagrees with. Miss Bunting is ridiculous. Lord Grantham has the power to fire her and make it impossible for her to get a job anywhere in the country. She’s a fool to antagonize him. I hope Cora does have an affair. Grantham did. Why shouldn’t see? Besides, discrete adultery was the play of the upper classes back then. But that would interfere with Fellows and his whole rosy class nonsense about the upper classes, wouldn’t it? I mean these are people who employed ten year olds to clean their chimneys, for cripes sake. The only really interesting part of the episode in some ways was Anna’s reaction to Mary. She was caught between two moralities. One implying that birth control was immoral and the other indignant that so much effort needed to be deployed to get access to it. ---
**Author:** ![Eyebrows\_0f\_Doom](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eyebrows_0f_doom/32/3119_2.png) [@Eyebrows\_0f\_Doom](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eyebrows_0f_Doom)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2015, 3:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/downton-abbey-s5-spoiler-free-until-broadcast-in-the-u-s/694244/177 "2015-01-21T03:01:02Z")
> [@LavenderBlue](#): > > The only really interesting part of the episode in some ways was Anna’s reaction to Mary. She was caught between two moralities. One implying that birth control was immoral and the other indignant that so much effort needed to be deployed to get access to it. It did make me look a bit askance when Anna seemed to be disapproving of Mary sleeping with Tony (I think she said she was abetting sin?) since Anna \*twice \*offered to do the exact same thing with Bates before they were married! ---
**Author:** ![alphaboi867](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alphaboi867/32/3898_2.png) [@alphaboi867](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/alphaboi867)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2015, 3:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/downton-abbey-s5-spoiler-free-until-broadcast-in-the-u-s/694244/178 "2015-01-21T03:16:40Z")
> [@LavenderBlue](#): > > Fellows is incapable of writing a convincing character who has views he disagrees with. Miss Bunting is ridiculous. Lord Grantham has the power to fire her and make it impossible for her to get a job anywhere in the country. She’s a fool to antagonize him… Good point, the school she teaches at is almost certainly attached to the local church, and we know from series 2 Lord Grantham can fire _the vicar_; obviously a schoolmistress like Miss Bunting would have even less protection. And I agreed 100% about _Lord_ Fellows (he was made a life peer 4 yrs ago). Miss Bunting comes across exactly what an old Tory of that era thinks a “New Woman” is. ---
**Author:** ![corkboard](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e9bcb4/32.png) [@corkboard](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/corkboard)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2015, 6:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/downton-abbey-s5-spoiler-free-until-broadcast-in-the-u-s/694244/179 "2015-01-21T18:22:51Z")
Regarding Anna, Mary and the unspeakable subject of \ birth control- Anna and Bates are married, and presumably engaging in the occasional act of sexual congress. Since Anna is so scandalized about the prospect of birth control, what do she and Bates do- twice a year and hope for the best? Reach a hand across the vast expanse of their marital bed? Have we learned that one of them is sterile? On somewhat of the same subject, I think the Russian has awakened parts of the Dowager that have been on life support for many, many years. ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2015, 6:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/downton-abbey-s5-spoiler-free-until-broadcast-in-the-u-s/694244/180 "2015-01-21T18:38:15Z")
> [@LavenderBlue](#): > > …I hope Cora does have an affair. Grantham did. Why shouldn’t see?.. I thought he was a bit tempted by that pretty servant, but restrained himself. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/downton-abbey-s5-spoiler-free-until-broadcast-in-the-u-s/694244.md?page=8) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/downton-abbey-s5-spoiler-free-until-broadcast-in-the-u-s/694244.md?page=10)