# Downton Abbey S6 - spoiler-free until broadcast in the U.S. **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [August 16, 2015, 2:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/downton-abbey-s6-spoiler-free-until-broadcast-in-the-u-s/727966 "2015-08-16T02:06:43Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![SanVito](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sanvito/32/2805_2.png) [@SanVito](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SanVito)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2016, 4:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/downton-abbey-s6-spoiler-free-until-broadcast-in-the-u-s/727966/41 "2016-01-05T16:38:08Z")
> [@Dinsdale](#): > > Is there any consensus as to the reason for the continuing popularity of this show? > > My wife and I watch MT pretty regularly, so of course we watched this. But it never impressed us as anything terribly spectacular in terms of costume dramas. Beautifully staged and costumed, but pretty mediocre writing and (most of the) acting. I mean, it is a fine soap opera, but why did THIS soap opera become so terribly popular? > > Also, do people think the actress who plays Mary acts well? Impresses me as terribly wooden. And I had no idea why her dad thought that her sleeping with a guy - or being willing to have it hit the papers - qualified her to run the estate. > > I repeat, the filming and costuming is beautiful. Because it’s basically Dallas in costume - easy, fun, soap style nonsense. Pure escapism. It’s cheesy as hell, but I still love it. ---
**Author:** ![salinqmind](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/3ec8ea/32.png) [@salinqmind](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/salinqmind)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2016, 5:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/downton-abbey-s6-spoiler-free-until-broadcast-in-the-u-s/727966/42 "2016-01-05T17:46:47Z")
I watch because…well, I love this stuff. I watched ‘Upstairs, Downstairs’ back in the day and ADORED every minute. That series can be compared to a Chinese banquet. Now, DA is more like a particularly tasty take-out from the Chinese joint down the street. It’s similar, and pretty darned good (though it can’t compare to the glorious past). I will be sad when it’s over, hopefully PBS/BBC will come up with something good in the near future…As for the series, I am wondering what will happen to Thomas. I don’t think he will be alive at the end, poor guy has had the world against him from the start. ---
**Author:** ![Dinsdale](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/97f17d/32.png) [@Dinsdale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dinsdale)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2016, 5:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/downton-abbey-s6-spoiler-free-until-broadcast-in-the-u-s/727966/43 "2016-01-05T17:59:56Z")
> [@AlsoNamedBort](#): > > I’m just assuming she has cancer, because why wouldn’t she? I loved when she said something like: “Just one last self pitying comment.” Then EVERY SUBSEQUENT statement of hers continued the self-pity. 😃 I’d wager pretty heavily that the series ends with an immaculate conception. ---
**Author:** ![Eyebrows\_0f\_Doom](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eyebrows_0f_doom/32/3119_2.png) [@Eyebrows\_0f\_Doom](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eyebrows_0f_Doom)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2016, 6:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/downton-abbey-s6-spoiler-free-until-broadcast-in-the-u-s/727966/44 "2016-01-05T18:09:08Z")
> [@salinqmind](#): > > As for the series, I am wondering what will happen to Thomas. I don’t think he will be alive at the end, poor guy has had the world against him from the start. If the world is against him he’s got no one to blame but himself. (Oh, and it’s Carson, not Carstairs) ---
**Author:** ![Nonsuch](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/nonsuch/32/2922_2.png) [@Nonsuch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nonsuch)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2016, 6:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/downton-abbey-s6-spoiler-free-until-broadcast-in-the-u-s/727966/45 "2016-01-05T18:12:17Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > Yeah, it’s really mediocre especially compared to some of the other MT offerings. It’s mediocrity is pretty much the main reason it’s so popular — and I say it as a fan myself. Compared to other MT period series, Downton is simplistic, sentimental, moralizing and, despite a large cast, pretty easy to follow. It provides a lot of emotional payoff for a relatively small investment of attention. And in addition to the aforementioned period costumes and settings, the dialogue is often very funny. Like a lot of viewers, I’ve spent enough time watching this show to stick with it 'til the end, even if a lot about it bugs me. ---
**Author:** ![ThelmaLou](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thelmalou/32/390_2.png) [@ThelmaLou](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ThelmaLou)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2016, 8:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/downton-abbey-s6-spoiler-free-until-broadcast-in-the-u-s/727966/46 "2016-01-05T20:32:51Z")
> [@Dinsdale](#): > > Is there any consensus as to the reason for the continuing popularity of this show? > > \… There may be some of this going on: [Shows you keep watching out of habit/loyalty/some unknown reason…](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=770429) ---
**Author:** ![ThelmaLou](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thelmalou/32/390_2.png) [@ThelmaLou](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ThelmaLou)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2016, 8:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/downton-abbey-s6-spoiler-free-until-broadcast-in-the-u-s/727966/47 "2016-01-05T20:40:03Z")
> [@Dinsdale](#): > > …I’d wager pretty heavily that the series ends with an immaculate conception. You mean a virgin birth. The virgin birth refers to the belief that the Blessed Virgin Mary got pregnant and gave birth to Jesus without ever having had sex. The immaculate conception refers to the Blessed Virgin Mary HERSELF being conceived and born to her parents Ann and Joachim without the “stain” of original sin. I’m not making this up. ---
**Author:** ![salinqmind](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/3ec8ea/32.png) [@salinqmind](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/salinqmind)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2016, 8:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/downton-abbey-s6-spoiler-free-until-broadcast-in-the-u-s/727966/48 "2016-01-05T20:59:06Z")
There was an amusing Houston, Tx. half-hour talk show that came on after DA last Sunday, identical to ‘Talking Dead’, only about Downton Abbey. I forgot the name, it has the word ‘Manor’ in it. You could vote for things: “Survey says: most of you would book a room at the Carson & Hughes ‘Tender And Touching Weekend Getaway’ B&B.” 😛 I am glad Mr. Carson is going to get his Full and Complete Marriage. (I couldn’t help but wonder what the deal was with Mr. Hudson and Mrs. Bridges of Upstairs Downstairs. They had worked together for ages, were on a first name basis, but I cannot see those two in a Full and Complete Marriage.) ---
**Author:** ![Dinsdale](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/97f17d/32.png) [@Dinsdale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dinsdale)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2016, 8:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/downton-abbey-s6-spoiler-free-until-broadcast-in-the-u-s/727966/49 "2016-01-05T20:59:36Z")
> [@ThelmaLou](#): > > You mean a virgin birth. Nah - I just meant Bates would wash up first. ---
**Author:** ![Bridget\_Burke](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7cd45c/32.png) [@Bridget\_Burke](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bridget_Burke)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2016, 9:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/downton-abbey-s6-spoiler-free-until-broadcast-in-the-u-s/727966/50 "2016-01-05T21:08:14Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > …Maybe Cora is not long for this world, and Lord Robert can be devastated while the Dowager Duchess shows her strength and resiliency. > > I have high expectations for the final ep - hopefully on a par with _The Bob Newhart Show_, and not _M_A_S_H\*. > > Regards, > Shodan That possibility would be not just tragic, but promise Real Drama after the last episode. After a period of mourning, Lord Robert could take a new wife. A young new wife. Who would give him a son! So Mary would never be mother of the Lord of the Manor…just the widow of the Heir Presumptive. ---
**Author:** ![zbuzz](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/e19b73/32.png) [@zbuzz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/zbuzz)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2016, 1:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/downton-abbey-s6-spoiler-free-until-broadcast-in-the-u-s/727966/51 "2016-01-06T01:23:32Z")
> [@Dinsdale](#): > > And I had no idea why her dad thought that her sleeping with a guy - or being willing to have it hit the papers - qualified her to run the estate. It’s because it brought into focus for Robert that she’s not a child anymore, that she’s capable of making tough, adult decisions and has exacting standards. ---
**Author:** ![Green\_Bean](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/green_bean/32/1760_2.png) [@Green\_Bean](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Green_Bean)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2016, 4:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/downton-abbey-s6-spoiler-free-until-broadcast-in-the-u-s/727966/52 "2016-01-06T04:05:59Z")
> [@Bridget\_Burke](#): > > That possibility would be not just tragic, but promise Real Drama after the last episode. After a period of mourning, Lord Robert could take a new wife. A young new wife. Who would give him a son! > > So Mary would never be mother of the Lord of the Manor…just the widow of the Heir Presumptive. Excellent thought! Robert can marry Daisy. Edith can marry Mr. Mason. Thomas can marry Dickie Merton, and The Dowager Countess and Isobel Crawley can marry each other. ---
**Author:** ![Savannah](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b3f665/32.png) [@Savannah](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Savannah)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2016, 4:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/downton-abbey-s6-spoiler-free-until-broadcast-in-the-u-s/727966/53 "2016-01-06T04:30:17Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > I have high expectations for the final ep - hopefully on a par with _The Bob Newhart Show_, and not _M_A_S_H\*. I’ve seen all of the final season, and the final, final (“Christmas”) episode, and I’ll advise you to lower your expectations. ---
**Author:** ![salinqmind](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/3ec8ea/32.png) [@salinqmind](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/salinqmind)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2016, 1:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/downton-abbey-s6-spoiler-free-until-broadcast-in-the-u-s/727966/54 "2016-01-09T01:35:21Z")
‘Manor of Speaking’ is the after-show. Discussion of the previous show, and questions from the audience, plus polls. ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2016, 4:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/downton-abbey-s6-spoiler-free-until-broadcast-in-the-u-s/727966/55 "2016-01-10T04:47:12Z")
I’d say the final DA season is off to a good start. The fox hunt was nice to look at. The Dowager Countess was in fine form. Good to finally have some closure on _R. v. Bates._ The dispute over the local hospital, and the financial pressures on Downton, have definite dramatic potential. > [@ThelmaLou](#): > > …The Birds and the Bees talk with Carson was sweet, and his heartfelt remarks to Mrs. Patmore brought tears to my eyes… which spilled over and ran down my face when he and Mrs. Hughes kissed. I’m with Mrs. Patmore: I’d love to know a man felt that way about me at my age. (Or any age, frankly.)… Yes, that was all good. My wife and I were coming up with delicate euphemisms for Mrs. Patmore to use: “When a husband and wife first are… um, _intimate_ with one another…” > [@Dinsdale](#): > > …I had no idea why her dad thought that [Lady Mary] sleeping with a guy - or being willing to have it hit the papers - qualified her to run the estate… I think it was that he respected her strength in not yielding to blackmail. She even quoted the Duke of Wellington! From Wiki: _Wellington had a “vigorous sexual appetite” and many amorous liaisons during his marriage… In 1824 one liaison came back to haunt him, when Wellington received a letter from a publisher offering to refrain from issuing an edition of the rather racy memoirs of one of his mistresses, Harriette Wilson, in exchange for financial consideration. It is said that the Duke promptly returned the missive, after scrawling across it, “Publish and be damned”…_ > [@Shodan](#): > > …I assume the 1929 Crash will be the focus of the last episode… I doubt they’ll skip four years ahead in a single season, but anything’s possible. > [@Nonsuch](#): > > …Compared to other MT period series, Downton is simplistic, sentimental, moralizing and, despite a large cast, pretty easy to follow. It provides a lot of emotional payoff for a relatively small investment of attention. And in addition to the aforementioned period costumes and settings, the dialogue is often very funny. Like a lot of viewers, I’ve spent enough time watching this show to stick with it 'til the end, even if a lot about it bugs me. I’d agree with that. > [@Savannah](#): > > I’ve seen all of the final season, and the final, final (“Christmas”) episode, and I’ll advise you to lower your expectations. See the thread title, and please don’t make even veiled comments like this from now on. Thank you. ---
**Author:** ![Captain\_Amazing](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6de8d8/32.png) [@Captain\_Amazing](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_Amazing)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2016, 1:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/downton-abbey-s6-spoiler-free-until-broadcast-in-the-u-s/727966/56 "2016-01-12T01:43:05Z")
So here’s my problem with Downton Abbey. I’ve watched it since the beginning, and especially at the beginning, I liked it. But here’s what I want to see. I want to see Robert do something totally and utterly shitty. I want him to be a real bastard. Or at least, I want him to have the ability to. I think A.E. Larsen, who posts the blog “An Historian Goes to the Movies”, found the perfect example in the post, “[Why I No Longer Watch Downton Abbey](https://aelarsen.wordpress.com/2015/12/30/downton-abbey-why-i-stopped-watching-downton-abbey/)”, in which he talks about how, after Thomas’s homosexuality is revealed, he continues to have a job. As he puts it: > [@](#): > > That is utter nonsense, in my angry opinion. Heterosexual nobles did not decide to overlook homosexuality in their servants, for the very simple reason that they couldn’t afford to do so. Their own reputation was very much at stake. > > Here’s what would probably have happened in the real world. Word of Thomas’ homosexuality would have spread among the staff, if only because O’Brien is still angry. Eventually, word that Downton’s staff includes a known pervert would have spread to servants at other estates, because when the Crawleys have guests, the Downton servants would gossip with the visiting servants. The servants of the wealthy and powerful always gossiped with each other. This gossip was a complex phenomenon. Employers hated the fact their servants gossiped about them, but wanted to know what was going on at other estates, so they regarded this gossip as a two-edged sword. For the servants, gossip was a way to express displeasure toward harsh employers, and it represented one of their few forms of social leverage against the powerful men and women who employed and often exploited them. Reputation was a very important consideration in Edwardian England, and loss of reputation was a serious problem for the powerful. > > So when Lord Crawley decides to forgive Thomas and continue employing him, even promoting him, inevitably word of this will get out. One of the servants will gossip at the bar or to a visiting servant and that news will start to circulate. People will wonder why Lord Crawley would protect a criminal and a pervert, and the answer is fairly obvious; Lord Crawley must be having sex with Thomas. So fairly quickly people will be whispering and joking about Crawley behind his back and his reputation is going to suffer serious damage. > > Instead of exploring the real damage the Closet did to Thomas and thereby offering a demonstration of just how destructive Straight Privilege can be to homosexuals, Julian Fellowes instead resorts to a fantasy in which Lord Crawley gets to save Thomas by exercising both his Class and Straight Privilege and acting as a benevolent master. Crawley gets to be the hero because he’s upper class and heterosexual, so the message here is that the Closet really must not be so bad after all because the people at the top of the ladder won’t really ruin those beneath them. Fellowes has been accused of offering a view of the early 20th century through rose-colored Conservative glasses (a charge he has to some extent admitted to), and this whole incident with Thomas demonstrates just how much the show’s take on the period fails to engage honestly with its subject matter. And it happens again in this last episode with the Marigold situation. Robert doesn’t throw his tenants off the land their family has been farming for a hundred years. He doesn’t have to. They volunteer to leave, even though this whole situation is Edith’s fault. He makes the comment in the episode, when somebody asks him which side he takes on the hospital situation, something like, “I just can’t decide.”. And that’s the problem with the show. They never make him decide. He’s never forced to make hard decisions or face the consequences of his actions. Whenever he’s in a bad situation, he’s always saved by some Deus ex Machina. And it’s infuriating. ---
**Author:** ![SanVito](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sanvito/32/2805_2.png) [@SanVito](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SanVito)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2016, 1:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/downton-abbey-s6-spoiler-free-until-broadcast-in-the-u-s/727966/57 "2016-01-12T13:06:30Z")
> [@salinqmind](#): > > I will be sad when it’s over, hopefully PBS/BBC will come up with something good in the near future… Downton is made by ITV, not the BBC. ITV was the UK’s first commercial channel back in the day, and has always been much more populist in its dramatic offerings than some of the higher brow stuff the Beeb does. Not that the BBC doesn’t stoop to lower stuff sometimes, or visa vera. For some seriously good new period stuff from the BBC, look out for War & Peace, currently airing in the UK. It’s got a bigger budget than most films, truly epic stuff. It also features Lily James from Downton Abbey, along with Gillian Anderson: > **[BBC One - War and Peace](https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/p039wcdk)** > > Leo Tolstoy's epic story of life, love and loss in nineteenth-century Russia. ---
**Author:** ![Savannah](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b3f665/32.png) [@Savannah](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Savannah)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2016, 2:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/downton-abbey-s6-spoiler-free-until-broadcast-in-the-u-s/727966/58 "2016-01-12T14:30:44Z")
> [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](#): > > See the thread title, and please don’t make even veiled comments like this from now on. Thank you. I apologise; I wasn’t trying to spoil anything. ---
**Author:** ![ivylass](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/9de053/32.png) [@ivylass](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ivylass)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2016, 2:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/downton-abbey-s6-spoiler-free-until-broadcast-in-the-u-s/727966/59 "2016-01-12T14:53:52Z")
They do seem to be setting up a showdown between upstairs and downstairs. Even Mrs. Hughes made a snarky comment about Mary. I don’t sense any ill will on the Crawleys’ part…they are trying to be nice to a pair of incredibly valued employees. They just don’t understand how times, they are a’changing. **Captain Amazing** , they did allude to Thomas’ homosexuality when he went for the job interview at the neighboring estate. The butler insinuated it was odd that Thomas wasn’t married (and he is a good looking man) and implied it was okay for butlers to be married now, as he was himself. But I do see your point…there seem to be no repercussions for the Abbey to employ an outed individual. Edith and Marigold need to get to London already. The show is setting up situations and then quickly resolving them (Mary’s blackmail, Mr. Mason being evicted, sending off Marigold’s foster parents.) I loved the embroidery Cora was working on when Daisy came to speak with her. The medical procedure that Anna is going to get to keep the baby tucked away…does anyone have any insight into that? Does it actually work? ---
**Author:** ![amarinth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/3be4f8/32.png) [@amarinth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/amarinth)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2016, 3:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/downton-abbey-s6-spoiler-free-until-broadcast-in-the-u-s/727966/60 "2016-01-12T15:12:33Z")
If I remember correctly, after Marigold was born, she was with Edith for a while nursing. Then, she was adopted to a couple in Switzerland for about a year or two, then finally she went to live with the Drewes for about 6 months, and now she’s spent the past year or two at the Abbey. Also, don’t the Drewes have 3 or 4 other children? Mrs. Drewes attachment to Marigold seems disproportionate. (Complaining that no one was paying attention to her while she was similarly neglecting her other kids? That’s weird.) **Captain Amazing** , they had similar problems with race and anti-semitism. Fellowes really wants people to like the Crawleys and the aristocracy, so he gives them anachronistically progressive viewpoints instead of really looking at the situation. It actually makes it much worse than if he hadn’t introduced the topics at all. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/downton-abbey-s6-spoiler-free-until-broadcast-in-the-u-s/727966.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/downton-abbey-s6-spoiler-free-until-broadcast-in-the-u-s/727966.md?page=4)