# Downton Abbey, Series 2 (PBS) \[Please, no unaired spoilers\] **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [January 13, 2012, 4:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/downton-abbey-series-2-pbs-please-no-unaired-spoilers/609368 "2012-01-13T04:06:18Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 14
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [February 9, 2012, 7:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/downton-abbey-series-2-pbs-please-no-unaired-spoilers/609368/261 "2012-02-09T19:05:47Z")
> [@Acsenray](#): > > Brilliant! > > Joanna Lumley: “You know me. I’m posher than you!” Love how she just jettisons the Scottish accent. > > The youngest, political daughter: “Hiiiiii …” > > Was Jennifer Saunders addressing Kim Cattrall as “Tim … Tim … Tim … Tim Cattrall!”?? > > Best of all Simon Callow as Julian Fellowes: “I don’t know how I do it!” – I haven’t seen the interviews. Is he really like that? I just watched it again and had another giggle … right after Jennifer Saunders addresses Kim Cattrall as “Tim!” – Kim Cattrall: Shouldn’t we be having a _period_ conversation? Jennifer Saunders: Heavens, no! There’ll be kiddiewinkles watching! ---
**Author:** ![Bridget\_Burke](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7cd45c/32.png) [@Bridget\_Burke](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bridget_Burke)\ **Post date:** [February 9, 2012, 7:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/downton-abbey-series-2-pbs-please-no-unaired-spoilers/609368/262 "2012-02-09T19:09:00Z")
After Edward’s death, some folks tried to make “Georgian” popular. (As in the [Georgian Poets](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Georgian_poets).) Then The Great War blew previous categories to smithereens. Generally, “Edwardian” is now used to describe the era between Victoria & the War. Lord Julian has lot of nerve talking about people without “firm social standing.” His forbears were quite respectable but hardly noble. And he’s only a Life Peer! I could ignore his politics–since my own _bêtes noires_ are the Republicans of Texas. But they\* have crept into his writing–especially this series. For example: Making the flirtatious, politically conscious chauffeur who gave The Youngest Daughter suffragette material into the stern representative of Irish Nationalism, a Socialism that didn’t care when the Czar’s family was murdered and Conscientious Objection. And making him look like a hypocrite & a bit of a fool–because Lord Julian disapproves of those causes. All of which also lets down the “romance” part of the story… - his politics, not the Texas Republicans… ---
**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\ **Post date:** [February 9, 2012, 7:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/downton-abbey-series-2-pbs-please-no-unaired-spoilers/609368/263 "2012-02-09T19:16:15Z")
> [@](#): > > Mr Fellowes has lashed out at those pointing out inaccuracies, saying: "The real problem is with people who are insecure socially, and they think to show how smart they are by picking holes in the programme to promote their own poshness and to show that their knowledge is greater than your knowledge.” No, the real problem is with sloppy doofuses, be they scriptwriters, location managers, costume designers or any other functionaries in the vast filmmaking enterprise, who can’t be bothered to get details right. Think how much better Fellowes would have looked in this dialogue if he had good-humoredly said something like _“It’s true that in a big complicated production some inaccuracies and mistakes will be inevitable, but it’s also true that one of the joys for viewers of period dramas is seeing historical settings accurately brought to life. We’re grateful to the eagle-eyed dedicated fans who have noticed and alerted us to the occasional error, and we always do our best to correct such errors in future episodes.”_ Damn, I would make **such** a better English gentleman than Julian Fellowes, wouldn’t I? ---
**Author:** ![Dewey\_Finn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dewey_finn/32/4222_2.png) [@Dewey\_Finn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dewey_Finn)\ **Post date:** [February 9, 2012, 7:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/downton-abbey-series-2-pbs-please-no-unaired-spoilers/609368/264 "2012-02-09T19:18:49Z")
> [@Bridget\_Burke](#): > > After Edward’s death, some folks tried to make “Georgian” popular. (As in the [Georgian Poets](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Georgian_poets).) Then The Great War blew previous categories to smithereens. Generally, “Edwardian” is now used to describe the era between Victoria & the War. Hijack: Do you think that eventually the post-WWII era or the latter half of the twentieth century will ever be called the Second Elizabethan era? ---
**Author:** ![Eve](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/9e8a1a/32.png) [@Eve](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eve)\ **Post date:** [February 9, 2012, 7:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/downton-abbey-series-2-pbs-please-no-unaired-spoilers/609368/265 "2012-02-09T19:20:18Z")
> [@Acsenray](#): > > I just watched it again and had another giggle … It has really all but ruined the show for me. I cannot look at O’Brien without thinking, “Me 'air’s just _knitting!_” By the way, has anyone else noticed that Carson (Jim Carter) is a dead ringer for poor Kurt Gerron, the German star who died in Auschwitz? [The story of Kurt Gerron Revolt & Resistance www.HolocaustResearchProject.org](http://www.holocaustresearchproject.org/revolt/gerron.html) ---
**Author:** ![Eve](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/9e8a1a/32.png) [@Eve](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eve)\ **Post date:** [February 9, 2012, 7:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/downton-abbey-series-2-pbs-please-no-unaired-spoilers/609368/266 "2012-02-09T19:22:22Z")
> [@Dewey\_Finn](#): > > Hijack: Do you think that eventually the post-WWII era or the latter half of the twentieth century will ever be called the Second Elizabethan era? They did have a huge hopeful go at “The New Elizabethans” in the early '50s, but it did \*not \*catch on. ---
**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\ **Post date:** [February 9, 2012, 7:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/downton-abbey-series-2-pbs-please-no-unaired-spoilers/609368/267 "2012-02-09T19:26:22Z")
Well, you don’t really need a name for an era while it’s still going on, do you? I can’t think of any instances of Victorians actually calling themselves “Victorians”, for example. I can imagine “Second Elizabethan era” catching on in a hundred years or so, but for now it’s just “these days”. ---
**Author:** ![Sampiro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/2acd7d/32.png) [@Sampiro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sampiro)\ **Post date:** [February 9, 2012, 7:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/downton-abbey-series-2-pbs-please-no-unaired-spoilers/609368/268 "2012-02-09T19:31:23Z")
> [@Eve](#): > > it was because I am a socially insecure leftie. Got it. Was there any doubt, really? > [@Eve](#): > > They did have a huge hopeful go at “The New Elizabethans” in the early '50s, but it did \*not \*catch on. That sounds so wonderful it needs to be used as a title for something. Actually, a Downton Abbey/Upstairs Downstairs type vehicle set in the '50s would be cool- after the Depression, the War, etc., the family is still in residence but has opened the house for tourism and having to deal with TVs and taxes and the like- could work. ---
**Author:** ![TruCelt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/trucelt/32/523_2.png) [@TruCelt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TruCelt)\ **Post date:** [February 9, 2012, 7:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/downton-abbey-series-2-pbs-please-no-unaired-spoilers/609368/269 "2012-02-09T19:35:39Z")
I’ve heard “The Diana Years” quite a few times to describe a period of greater charitability and accessibility from the Royals. ---
**Author:** ![Rhiannon8404](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rhiannon8404/32/17929_2.png) [@Rhiannon8404](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rhiannon8404)\ **Post date:** [February 9, 2012, 7:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/downton-abbey-series-2-pbs-please-no-unaired-spoilers/609368/270 "2012-02-09T19:49:35Z")
About O’Brien and her bitterness and trouble-causing… Has it even been made known why she is so bitter and petty? or is it a case of every show needs a baddie? ---
**Author:** ![Eve](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/9e8a1a/32.png) [@Eve](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eve)\ **Post date:** [February 9, 2012, 8:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/downton-abbey-series-2-pbs-please-no-unaired-spoilers/609368/271 "2012-02-09T20:03:40Z")
> [@Rhiannon8404](#): > > About O’Brien and her bitterness and trouble-causing… > > Has it even been made known why she is so bitter and petty? or is it a case of every show needs a baddie? “It’s because 'er 'air’s just _knitting!_” ---
**Author:** ![PrettyVacant](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/49beb7/32.png) [@PrettyVacant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PrettyVacant)\ **Post date:** [February 9, 2012, 8:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/downton-abbey-series-2-pbs-please-no-unaired-spoilers/609368/272 "2012-02-09T20:28:56Z")
Not getting enough cock action, obviously. Ditto Thomas. ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [February 9, 2012, 9:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/downton-abbey-series-2-pbs-please-no-unaired-spoilers/609368/273 "2012-02-09T21:10:33Z")
> [@Kimstu](#): > > …Damn, I would make **such** a better English gentleman than Julian Fellowes, wouldn’t I? Quite! Well said, m’lud. > [@Eve](#): > > …By the way, has anyone else noticed that Carson (Jim Carter) is a dead ringer for poor Kurt Gerron, the German star who died in Auschwitz? [The story of Kurt Gerron Revolt & Resistance www.HolocaustResearchProject.org](http://www.holocaustresearchproject.org/revolt/gerron.html) Not so much IMHO. ---
**Author:** ![Toucanna](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/3bc359/32.png) [@Toucanna](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Toucanna)\ **Post date:** [February 9, 2012, 9:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/downton-abbey-series-2-pbs-please-no-unaired-spoilers/609368/274 "2012-02-09T21:22:30Z")
> [@Bridget\_Burke](#): > > {snip} Generally, “Edwardian” is now used to describe the era between Victoria & the War. Yes, I’ve seen the term used as loosely as that. I guess it’s a matter of interpretation. While the Edwardian Era ended literally with ER-7’s death, the lifestyle/culture continued on for a while. I tend to feel that the EA was definitely over by 1916 because of the effect the staggering defeats at Gallipoli and the Battle of the Somme had on British society’s psyche. YMMV > [@Kimstu](#): > > No, the real problem is with sloppy doofuses, be they scriptwriters, location managers, costume designers or any other functionaries in the vast filmmaking enterprise, who can’t be bothered to get details right. Well, it’s a major film production and mistakes such as including TV aerials happen. I wouldn’t sack someone for that. I can’t speak to actual anachronisms or historical inaccuracies as I simply don’t know enough about the period. > [@Kimstu](#): > > Think how much better Fellowes would have looked in this dialogue if he had good-humoredly said something like… > Damn, I would make **such** a better English gentleman than Julian Fellowes, wouldn’t I? Well put, sir, and yes, I believe you would! 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Toucanna](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/3bc359/32.png) [@Toucanna](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Toucanna)\ **Post date:** [February 9, 2012, 9:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/downton-abbey-series-2-pbs-please-no-unaired-spoilers/609368/275 "2012-02-09T21:30:29Z")
> [@Kimstu](#): > > Well, you don’t really need a name for an era while it’s still going on, do you? Agreed. Interesting to note that in the USA, most people refer now to the 1970s as the “Me Generation”, but at the time, the term used was “Now Generation”. ---
**Author:** ![Toucanna](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/3bc359/32.png) [@Toucanna](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Toucanna)\ **Post date:** [February 9, 2012, 9:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/downton-abbey-series-2-pbs-please-no-unaired-spoilers/609368/276 "2012-02-09T21:35:47Z")
Oh blast and bother… I was trying to say the same thing two different ways and messed it up.:smack: > [@Toucanna](#): > > Yes, I’ve seen the term used as loosely as that. Let me restate that: “I have seen the term used as loosely as to include the entire span of The Great War.” ---
**Author:** ![Toucanna](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/3bc359/32.png) [@Toucanna](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Toucanna)\ **Post date:** [February 9, 2012, 10:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/downton-abbey-series-2-pbs-please-no-unaired-spoilers/609368/277 "2012-02-09T22:00:13Z")
> [@Acsenray](#): > > …It has been surmised by Wodehouse enthusiasts that Bertie is the only character appearing in the stories who could possibility be his uncle’s heir… I have nothing to do and all day to do it, so I found this: [The Wold Newton Universe - Articles, Part XII](http://www.pjfarmer.com/woldnewton/Articles12.htm). Relevant quote: "THE EARL OF YAXLEY Although the immediate family of Bertram Wilberforce Mannering Phipps Wooster[47] was untitled, they were a cadet branch of the family of the Earls of Yaxley. Bertie’s uncle George, however, acquired a baronetcy, and subsequently (following the deaths of some intervening relatives[48]) inherited the Earldom as well (Geoffrey Jaggard notes that there is also a baronetcy combined with the Earldom of Kimberley; P.G. Wodehouse was a member of a cadet line of this family). The question arises, however, as to the identity of the heir to the title of Earl of Yaxley, and it is Geoffrey Jaggard’s opinion that it is Bertie who is next in line to inherit. According to Cyril Northcote Parkinson, Bertie does indeed become the new Lord Yaxley and settles down (with Bobbie Wickham of all people!) at Wooster Castle. Jeeves, in Parkinson’s view, becomes a mere pub landlord.[49] Jaggard, however, has greater things in sight for Bertie and Jeeves…{snip}" ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [February 9, 2012, 10:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/downton-abbey-series-2-pbs-please-no-unaired-spoilers/609368/278 "2012-02-09T22:04:29Z")
> [@Toucanna](#): > > …(Geoffrey Jaggard notes that there is also a baronetcy combined with the Earldom of Kimberley; P.G. Wodehouse was a member of a cadet line of this family)… Interesting! I hadn’t known that. See here: [Earl of Kimberley - Wikipedia](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Earl_of_Kimberley) ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [February 9, 2012, 11:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/downton-abbey-series-2-pbs-please-no-unaired-spoilers/609368/279 "2012-02-09T23:05:51Z")
> [@Toucanna](#): > > Bertram Wilberforce Mannering Phipps Wooster Bertram Mannering-Phipps was his name in the very first story. In subsequent stories, it’s pretty clear to me that Wodehouse changed his mind and renamed him Bertram Wilberforce Wooster. I don’t like how this chap smooshes the two names together. > [@](#): > > According to Cyril Northcote Parkinson, Bertie does indeed become the new Lord Yaxley and settles down (with Bobbie Wickham of all people!) If I recall correctly, his engagement to Bobbie is really the only one he enters into voluntarily, so it wouldn’t surprise me. But if you ask me, Bertie is so put off by any thoughts of sex that even though he becomes enamoured of a young stunner, that I doubt he’s all that into girls sexually, if you know what I mean. ---
**Author:** ![alphaboi867](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alphaboi867/32/3898_2.png) [@alphaboi867](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/alphaboi867)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2012, 4:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/downton-abbey-series-2-pbs-please-no-unaired-spoilers/609368/280 "2012-02-10T04:25:00Z")
> [@Sampiro](#): > > Was there any doubt, really? > > That sounds so wonderful it needs to be used as a title for something. Actually, a Downton Abbey/Upstairs Downstairs type vehicle set in the '50s would be cool- after the Depression, the War, etc., the family is still in residence but has opened the house for tourism and having to deal with TVs and taxes and the like- could work. That actually does sound like a good idea. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/downton-abbey-series-2-pbs-please-no-unaired-spoilers/609368.md?page=13) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/downton-abbey-series-2-pbs-please-no-unaired-spoilers/609368.md?page=15)