# Downton Abbey, Series 2 (PBS) \[Please, no unaired spoilers\] **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [January 13, 2012, 4:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/downton-abbey-series-2-pbs-please-no-unaired-spoilers/609368 "2012-01-13T04:06:18Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 16
**Author:** ![Captain\_Amazing](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6de8d8/32.png) [@Captain\_Amazing](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_Amazing)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2012, 5:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/downton-abbey-series-2-pbs-please-no-unaired-spoilers/609368/301 "2012-02-13T05:46:33Z")
> [@Sampiro](#): > > I wonder if Ethel would have had any kind of chance at all of getting support in those days. I don’t know when paternity blood testing came into being (I know an early version existed in the ‘30s, but it was much better for _dis_proving than proving) and with nothing save some servants’ testifying to the affair and perhaps a resemblance between the child and pictures of the father for proof. Probably not, given that he never acknowledged the kid and never paid money to her for him. ---
**Author:** ![Toucanna](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/3bc359/32.png) [@Toucanna](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Toucanna)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2012, 6:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/downton-abbey-series-2-pbs-please-no-unaired-spoilers/609368/302 "2012-02-13T06:12:07Z")
> [@Sampiro](#): > > They should have called in an artist to preserve “The Martyrdom of St. Lavinia” as a new stained glass window for the drawing room. ::Golf clap:: > [@Sampiro](#): > > Why not just arrange a room for them at the Grantham Arms (now that we know the Grantham Arms exists)? Good idea! ETA: Wait! Weren’t Bates & Anna trying to keep their wedding a secret for some reason? Sending them to the G.A. would have let everyone know. Or did I misunderstand something? > [@Sampiro](#): > > Odd that Lady Sibyl put on her nurse’s uniform to care for her mother. Lady G was going to be copiously and disgustingly sick, so it made sense to me. I mean, I think the daughters of an earl probably own very expensive day dresses, very expensive dinner dresses, very expensive party dresses, very expensive night gowns and very expensive dressing gowns, but no grungy T-shirts, grubby work jeans or Crocs. > [@Sampiro](#): > > I think Lord Grantham should tell Sibyl…{snip} Good idea. > [@Sampiro](#): > > …as [Branson] succeeds in some business or as a writer or something similar… (Emphasis is mine). Branson works his way up from copy boy to journalist to editor to owning his own newspaper to owner of a chain of newspapers, becomes very influential, and, like Richard Carlisle, is knighted and becomes Sir Thomas Branson. > [@Sampiro](#): > > …do you think Ethel should have bitten the bullet and allowed her child at least to be raised in comfort even without a mother, or do you think the child will be better off with her instead of with Grandpa Fatbastard? ## I don’t know how much time elapsed between Ethel’s confrontation with the Bryants (in the dining room) and Grandpa Bryant’s offer and Ethel’s telling Mrs Hudson her decision. I wonder if, given a little more time, Grandma Bryant may have be able to persuade Grandpa Bryant to compromise with Ethel. As things stood at the end of the series, I don’t know what support system(s) were available to an unwed mother, but I think Ethel’s life is going to be very very difficult. Style of address question: when Lady Sybil Crawley marries Thomas Branson, will she be known as Lady Sybil Branson, Mr. Thomas Branson, or something else? ---
**Author:** ![alphaboi867](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alphaboi867/32/3898_2.png) [@alphaboi867](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/alphaboi867)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2012, 6:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/downton-abbey-series-2-pbs-please-no-unaired-spoilers/609368/303 "2012-02-13T06:17:11Z")
> [@Toucanna](#): > > …Style of address question: when Lady Sybil Crawley marries Thomas Branson, will she be known as “Lady Sybil Branson”, Mr. Thomas Branson or something else? _Lady Sybil Branson_ would be correct; although Sybil herself would probally stop using her style and prefer “Mrs Thomas Branson” instead. ---
**Author:** ![Lucretia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/13edae/32.png) [@Lucretia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lucretia)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2012, 7:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/downton-abbey-series-2-pbs-please-no-unaired-spoilers/609368/304 "2012-02-13T07:15:43Z")
I thought for a minute there the writers were being sly, and meant Thomas the Chauffeur to be the ancestor of Richard Branson. I’m rather disappointed that he’s not. ---
**Author:** ![Sampiro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/2acd7d/32.png) [@Sampiro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sampiro)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2012, 7:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/downton-abbey-series-2-pbs-please-no-unaired-spoilers/609368/305 "2012-02-13T07:28:06Z")
> [@alphaboi867](#): > > _Lady Sybil Branson_ would be correct; although Sybil herself would probally stop using her style and prefer “Mrs Thomas Branson” instead. Her husband would not have any title nor would any children they might have, so it would probably cause problems to have Mr. Thomas Branson and Lady Sybil Branson. Her children would have no titles. I think she would also be considered Jewish after any non-procreative sexual contact. ETA: Oh, sorry. I’m thinking of blowing the shofar, which is quite different. ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2012, 11:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/downton-abbey-series-2-pbs-please-no-unaired-spoilers/609368/306 "2012-02-13T11:19:35Z")
> [@Toucanna](#): > > knighted and becomes Sir Thomas Branson. Thomas the socialist anarchist Irish nationalist is not going to accept a knighthood. And 1919 is just around the corner. ---
**Author:** ![ThelmaLou](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thelmalou/32/390_2.png) [@ThelmaLou](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ThelmaLou)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2012, 11:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/downton-abbey-series-2-pbs-please-no-unaired-spoilers/609368/307 "2012-02-13T11:20:33Z")
Can someone remind me what O’Brien needed forgiveness for? Thomas was lookin’ pretty good by the end there. I was not turned on by the Robert/Jane thing, and normally I adore inappropriate relationships. No chemistry? ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2012, 11:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/downton-abbey-series-2-pbs-please-no-unaired-spoilers/609368/308 "2012-02-13T11:34:44Z")
> [@ThelmaLou](#): > > Can someone remind me what O’Brien needed forgiveness for? O’Brien left a bar of soap on the floor next to the bathtub when Cora was taking a bath. When she got out of the bath, Cora stepped on it, slipped and fell, and had a miscarriage. O’Brien feels guilty because she did this intentionally, as an act of revenge, because she thought Cora was about to replace her. Honestly, though, I didn’t know it was so easy to induce a miscarriage. Isn’t it common for pregnant women to fall? ---
**Author:** ![Eve](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/9e8a1a/32.png) [@Eve](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eve)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2012, 2:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/downton-abbey-series-2-pbs-please-no-unaired-spoilers/609368/309 "2012-02-13T14:34:21Z")
Since I am a socially insecure leftie, I guess I can play Spot That Error: “Sucking up?” In 1919? Really? That record that Matthew played on the talking machine was “Look for the Silver Lining,” a \*huge \*Jerome Kern hit from the \*huge \*1920 hit play _Sally_, not something from a little 1919 flop. ---
**Author:** ![LavenderBlue](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/e95f7d/32.png) [@LavenderBlue](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LavenderBlue)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2012, 3:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/downton-abbey-series-2-pbs-please-no-unaired-spoilers/609368/310 "2012-02-13T15:17:13Z")
> [@Sampiro](#): > > Her husband would not have any title nor would any children they might have, so it would probably cause problems to have Mr. Thomas Branson and Lady Sybil Branson. Her children would have no titles. I think she would also be considered Jewish after any non-procreative sexual contact. > > ETA: Oh, sorry. I’m thinking of blowing the shofar, which is quite different. I love you for that last line. 😃 The second season is just dumber than the first. Mary’s mooning over Matthew is just ridiculous. Sir Richard’s villany is one deminsional and annoying. Matthew’s jumping from his wheelchair after months of paralysis was as unconvincing as the Patrick storyline of the last episode. Didn’t Thomas bother to taste the ingredients before attempting to sell them? I hope season three goes back to the intelligent and subtlety that made season one so engaging. ---
**Author:** ![Eve](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/9e8a1a/32.png) [@Eve](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eve)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2012, 3:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/downton-abbey-series-2-pbs-please-no-unaired-spoilers/609368/311 "2012-02-13T15:19:14Z")
> [@LavenderBlue](#): > > I hope season three goes back to the intelligent and subtlety that made season one so engaging. Yes, the addition of Shirley Maclaine should assure \*that \*. . . . ---
**Author:** ![Mr\_Downtown](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/8e8cbc/32.png) [@Mr\_Downtown](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr_Downtown)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2012, 4:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/downton-abbey-series-2-pbs-please-no-unaired-spoilers/609368/312 "2012-02-13T16:24:02Z")
I keep rolling my eyes at the idea that O’Brien somehow knew _precisely_ where Her Ladyship would step on leaving the bath. Why was Lavinia buried in Grantham rather than London? Also, I don’t think His Lordship could in any meaningful way order Branson out of the Grantham Arms. He was just blustering. ---
**Author:** ![Archergal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/c89c15/32.png) [@Archergal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Archergal)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2012, 5:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/downton-abbey-series-2-pbs-please-no-unaired-spoilers/609368/313 "2012-02-13T17:15:49Z")
My husband has gotten tired of the Mary/Matthew drama and the continuing Woeful Tale of Mr. Bates. I kinda have too, honestly. ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2012, 5:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/downton-abbey-series-2-pbs-please-no-unaired-spoilers/609368/314 "2012-02-13T17:44:07Z")
> [@Eve](#): > > “Sucking up?” In 1919? Really? I’ll wait to hear a linguist weigh in. Slang is often not as new as you might think. I recently learned that “fat,” meaning “cool” is at least a century old and that the spelling “phat” goes back at least 50 years. ---
**Author:** ![LavenderBlue](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/e95f7d/32.png) [@LavenderBlue](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LavenderBlue)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2012, 5:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/downton-abbey-series-2-pbs-please-no-unaired-spoilers/609368/315 "2012-02-13T17:54:19Z")
> [@Eve](#): > > Yes, the addition of Shirley Maclaine should assure \*that \*. . . . Ha Ha Ha. 😃 Bloggers Tom and Lorenzo has been hysterically funny when writing about this series: > [@](#): > > [http://www.tomandlorenzo.com/2012/02/downton-abbey-hahahahahahaha.html](http://www.tomandlorenzo.com/2012/02/downton-abbey-hahahahahahaha.html) > > Julian Fellowes, you hack. Did you get drunk while writing this script? Oh, wait! Was it… A BLOW TO THE HEAD? Did you wake up with a Canadian accent and then bang this out on a typewriter? :D:D:D ---
**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2012, 5:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/downton-abbey-series-2-pbs-please-no-unaired-spoilers/609368/316 "2012-02-13T17:56:16Z")
> [@Acsenray](#): > > I’ll wait to hear a linguist weigh in. Slang is often not as new as you might think. I recently learned that “fat,” meaning “cool” is at least a century old and that the spelling “phat” goes back at least 50 years. I ain’t no linguist, but the 1874 edition of [John Camden Hotten’s Slang Dictionary](http://books.google.com/books?id=l3MKAAAAIAAJ) lists on p. 315: > [@](#): > > Suck up, “to SUCK UP to a person”, to insinuate oneself into his good graces. I will not tell you what “to suck the mop” means, though: go to p. 314 and look it up. (Not dirty, sorry.) ---
**Author:** ![Toucanna](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/3bc359/32.png) [@Toucanna](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Toucanna)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2012, 6:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/downton-abbey-series-2-pbs-please-no-unaired-spoilers/609368/317 "2012-02-13T18:02:38Z")
> [@Acsenray](#): > > Thomas the socialist anarchist Irish nationalist is not going to accept a knighthood. And 1919 is just around the corner. I guess I wasn’t sufficiently obvious in my sarcasm (irony?). Given Julian Fellowes’ political views, I was insinuating that, should the series continue far enough, Branson would “see the light” about his “misguided” political views and come around to the “proper” British way of things. (Also, the episode that aired last night was set in 1919.) > [@Mr\_Downtown](#): > > I keep rolling my eyes at the idea that O’Brien somehow knew _precisely_ where Her Ladyship would step on leaving the bath. The soap was in a small puddle. Lady G didn’t necessarily need to step on the soap to silp, just in the puddle. And I don’t think O’Brien meant for Lady G to take a bad tumble, just slip and bang herself and suffer a loss of dignity. > [@Mr\_Downtown](#): > > Why was Lavinia buried in Grantham rather than London? Good question. Anyone? > [@Mr\_Downtown](#): > > Also, I don’t think His Lordship could in any meaningful way order Branson out of the Grantham Arms. He was just blustering. ## I’m not sure, but I think the Lord of the Manor had judicial powers, akin to a county magistrate’s. Perhaps Lord G had the authority to tell someone to move on if he felt s/he was an undesirable element in his bailiwick. For example (it’s definitely not a legal cite but), in the Jeeves & Wooster stories, Marmaduke “Chuffy” Chuffnell (5th Baron Chuffnell [a fictional title]) was the magistrate for the area in which his estate was located. I had started to post a long list of questions about what might happen in the third series, but I think this should wait until after the Christmas special airs. ---
**Author:** ![Eve](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/9e8a1a/32.png) [@Eve](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eve)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2012, 6:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/downton-abbey-series-2-pbs-please-no-unaired-spoilers/609368/318 "2012-02-13T18:08:52Z")
> [@Kimstu](#): > > I ain’t no linguist, but the 1874 edition of [John Camden Hotten’s Slang Dictionary](http://books.google.com/books?id=l3MKAAAAIAAJ) lists on p. 315: Ah–alright, unlike Hizzoner Lord Fellowes, I am happy to admit when I am wrong. I am just \*so \*insecure about my social position! [_Goes off humming “Look for the Silver Lining”_] ---
**Author:** ![Toucanna](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/3bc359/32.png) [@Toucanna](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Toucanna)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2012, 6:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/downton-abbey-series-2-pbs-please-no-unaired-spoilers/609368/319 "2012-02-13T18:11:46Z")
“Did you wake up with a Canadian accent and then bang this out on a typewriter?” Despite all the preposterous plot points, I actually don’t have a problem with Major Gordon’s Canadian accent whilst claiming to be the English Patrick Crawley: [Foreign Accent Syndrome](http://serendip.brynmawr.edu/exchange/node/6359). I wonder if there was a scene cut from the final show in which Doctor Clarkson explained F.A.S. to Lord G? ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2012, 6:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/downton-abbey-series-2-pbs-please-no-unaired-spoilers/609368/320 "2012-02-13T18:28:20Z")
> [@Toucanna](#): > > I guess I wasn’t sufficiently obvious in my sarcasm (irony?). Whooshed me! > [@](#): > > (Also, the episode that aired last night was set in 1919.) Ah, then it’s _really_ just around the corner! [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/downton-abbey-series-2-pbs-please-no-unaired-spoilers/609368.md?page=15) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/downton-abbey-series-2-pbs-please-no-unaired-spoilers/609368.md?page=17)