# Downton Abbey, Series 2 (PBS) \[Please, no unaired spoilers\] **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [January 13, 2012, 4:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/downton-abbey-series-2-pbs-please-no-unaired-spoilers/609368 "2012-01-13T04:06:18Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 21
**Author:** ![Sampiro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/2acd7d/32.png) [@Sampiro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sampiro)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2012, 5:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/downton-abbey-series-2-pbs-please-no-unaired-spoilers/609368/401 "2012-02-15T17:36:54Z")
Do we know for an absolute fact Bates didn’t kill (or contribute to the death of) his wife? Because that would be an interesting reveal. ---
**Author:** ![Bridget\_Burke](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7cd45c/32.png) [@Bridget\_Burke](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bridget_Burke)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2012, 5:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/downton-abbey-series-2-pbs-please-no-unaired-spoilers/609368/402 "2012-02-15T17:37:59Z")
> [@ThelmaLou](#): > > If you get a nosebleed, call 911 immediately. ☹ And hope that the modern version of Dr Clarkson is not on call… ETA: We know nothing about the death of The First Mrs Bates. Rather like the murder in _Gosford Park_–with so many having a motive, how do we find the guilty party? ---
**Author:** ![AK84](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/85e7bf/32.png) [@AK84](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AK84)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2012, 5:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/downton-abbey-series-2-pbs-please-no-unaired-spoilers/609368/403 "2012-02-15T17:56:44Z")
Has the Christmas special aired yet? If not, I will happily supply one spoiler. Maggie Smiths line “do you promise” is IMO, the best of the entire series. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2012, 6:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/downton-abbey-series-2-pbs-please-no-unaired-spoilers/609368/404 "2012-02-15T18:36:49Z")
> [@AK84](#): > > Has the Christmas special aired yet? > > If not, I will happily supply one spoiler. Maggie Smiths line “do you promise” is IMO, the best of the entire series. The thread title says “no unaired spoilers,” and based on posts in this thread and the report I just go, the episode hasn’t aired. Please follow the thread guidelines. It’s really inconsiderate to flout them on purpose. ---
**Author:** ![Toucanna](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/3bc359/32.png) [@Toucanna](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Toucanna)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2012, 6:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/downton-abbey-series-2-pbs-please-no-unaired-spoilers/609368/405 "2012-02-15T18:46:54Z")
> [@Sampiro](#): > > Do we know for an absolute fact Bates didn’t kill (or contribute to the death of) his wife? Because that would be an interesting reveal. We really need a pathologist’s expertise. I had thought Bates could NOT have killed Vera because I was under the impression that arsenic was a slow killer. But the Wikipedia entry mentions instances of people (and one horse) dying quickly after ingesting a “massive amount” of arsenic. ---
**Author:** ![Eve](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/9e8a1a/32.png) [@Eve](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eve)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2012, 6:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/downton-abbey-series-2-pbs-please-no-unaired-spoilers/609368/406 "2012-02-15T18:54:38Z")
> [@Toucanna](#): > > We really need a pathologist’s expertise. I had thought Bates could NOT have killed Vera because I was under the impression that arsenic was a slow killer. But the Wikipedia entry mentions instances of people (and one horse) dying quickly after ingesting a “massive amount” of arsenic. My \*guess \*is that Mary’s Evil Newspaper Tycoon Fiance killed her–that would free Mary up, too. ---
**Author:** ![Toucanna](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/3bc359/32.png) [@Toucanna](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Toucanna)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2012, 7:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/downton-abbey-series-2-pbs-please-no-unaired-spoilers/609368/407 "2012-02-15T19:27:44Z")
> [@Eve](#): > > My \*guess \*is that Mary’s Evil Newspaper Tycoon Fiance killed her–that would free Mary up, too. Ah, yes. _Qui bono?_ and all that. Sir Richard Carlisle: because with Vera dead, only he can blackmail Lady Mary. Bates: he gets all her stuff and is free to remarry. Anna: she can marry Bates, share in his $ and possesions, and leave service to go into business with Bates. Lord G: gets to keep Bates as his valet. Mrs. Hughes: gets to keep Anna, who is a good worker, and protects the name of the bouse of Grantham, thus protecting her job. Lady Mary: keeps Vera from blabbing and keeps Anna as her maid. Lady G: protects Mary’s reputation, thus allowing the wedding to happen, and keeps Anna. Lady Edith: protects the family’s name, thus protecting her marriageability. Thomas Barrows: to get back at/sabotage Bates. O’Brien: to sabotage Bates and Anna. Lady Sybil: No! Not Lady Sybil!!! Anyone else have a motive? ---
**Author:** ![PrettyVacant](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/49beb7/32.png) [@PrettyVacant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PrettyVacant)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2012, 8:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/downton-abbey-series-2-pbs-please-no-unaired-spoilers/609368/408 "2012-02-15T20:58:53Z")
Well, she was no shrinking violet, she liked the company of men, and a drink, and was relatively wealthy. In working class London of that era it wouldn’t be too difficult for circumstances to arise she would find challenging. ---
**Author:** ![Sampiro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/2acd7d/32.png) [@Sampiro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sampiro)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2012, 9:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/downton-abbey-series-2-pbs-please-no-unaired-spoilers/609368/409 "2012-02-15T21:07:32Z")
I may have missed something, but the only real case against Bates is circumstantial, right? He benefitted and she said she was afraid of him in a letter? I just don’t see her as the type to commit suicide, especially when she has money to burn through. I have no idea what rights the spouse of a prisoner would have in 1919, but I’m guessing that the fact Anna is now legally Mrs. Bates will be important, if not in the final episode then next season (assuming the Bates plotline isn’t wrapped up in ‘A Very Downton Christmas’ and gets carried over to next season). > [@Toucanna](#): > > Ah, yes. _Qui bono?_ and all that. > Sir Richard Carlisle: because with Vera dead, only he can blackmail Lady Mary. > Bates: he gets all her stuff and is free to remarry. > Anna: she can marry Bates, share in his $ and possesions, and leave service to go into business with Bates. > Lord G: gets to keep Bates as his valet. > Mrs. Hughes: gets to keep Anna, who is a good worker, and protects the name of the bouse of Grantham, thus protecting her job. > Lady Mary: keeps Vera from blabbing and keeps Anna as her maid. > Lady G: protects Mary’s reputation, thus allowing the wedding to happen, and keeps Anna. > Lady Edith: protects the family’s name, thus protecting her marriageability. > Thomas Barrows: to get back at/sabotage Bates. > O’Brien: to sabotage Bates and Anna. > Lady Sybil: No! Not Lady Sybil!!! > > Anyone else have a motive? Violet: Because she has to kill a commoner once ever 14 years by the terms of the entail and this one seemed like she’d be fun to kill. Isis: “Because I’m the official bitch of this show!” ---
**Author:** ![John\_Bredin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/96bed5/32.png) [@John\_Bredin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Bredin)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2012, 9:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/downton-abbey-series-2-pbs-please-no-unaired-spoilers/609368/410 "2012-02-15T21:11:37Z")
> [@Toucanna](#): > > Lady Edith: protects the family’s name, thus protecting her marriageability. Lady Edith started this whole damned snowball rolling downhill in the first place with her letter to the Turkish Embassy. :smack: She wasn’t worried too much about the Grantham name or her own prospects back then. :rolleyes: (at Lady Edith, not you. 😃 ) ---
**Author:** ![Misnomer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/misnomer/32/14897_2.png) [@Misnomer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Misnomer)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2012, 9:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/downton-abbey-series-2-pbs-please-no-unaired-spoilers/609368/411 "2012-02-15T21:18:51Z")
> [@Toucanna](#): > > SCENE: Sybil and Branson’s room at the Swan Inn. Mary and Edith confront Sybil: no one uses the “L” word. True, but she _did_ say that she’d given her heart to Branson. (I just watched the episode last night.) ---
**Author:** ![John\_Bredin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/96bed5/32.png) [@John\_Bredin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Bredin)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2012, 9:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/downton-abbey-series-2-pbs-please-no-unaired-spoilers/609368/412 "2012-02-15T21:31:42Z")
> [@TruCelt](#): > > It’s also fun to find Fellowe’s character defects in the writing. For instance, when Lady Sybil is accepting the proposal, and informs her dear chauffer of why she’s decided he’ll be imminently useful to her. He shows no sign whatsoever of being offended by this, and treats it exactly as if she had said “I Love You.” That’s Fellowes, it would never occur to him that a lowly chauffer might do what I expected at the end of her sad monologue - be offended by it and dump her. Branson’s been in love with Lady Sybil for ghod-knows-how-long, waiting seemingly endlessly for her reply. All he cares about at that point is that she’s saying yes, she’ll be with him, not the "whereas"es that brought her to that “yes.” In other words, IMHO this particular instance has much more to do with “love is blind” than class. It’s also a neat parallel with Sir Richard’s one-foot-on-the-platform\* “we’d be great partners”/no-L-word marriage proposal to Lady Mary. Has either Sir Richard or Lady Mary used the L word, ever, in context of their relationship? \*Not literally, but damned close. ---
**Author:** ![Sampiro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/2acd7d/32.png) [@Sampiro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sampiro)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2012, 9:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/downton-abbey-series-2-pbs-please-no-unaired-spoilers/609368/413 "2012-02-15T21:38:13Z")
> [@John\_Bredin](#): > > Branson’s been in love with Lady Sybil for ghod-knows-how-long, waiting seemingly endlessly for her reply. All he cares about at that point is that she’s saying yes, she’ll be with him, not the "whereas"es that brought her to that “yes.” In other words, IMHO this particular instance has much more to do with “love is blind” than class. > > It’s also a neat parallel with Sir Richard’s one-foot-on-the-platform\* “we’d be great partners”/no-L-word marriage proposal to Lady Mary. Has either Sir Richard or Lady Mary used the L word, ever, in context of their relationship? I took it as a parallel to Lord Robert’s mid-life crisis in which he’s fantasizing about life with his maid. (I know he’s not actually contemplating divorce and remarriage or anything like it, but he’s probably fantasized about it- he’s too proper to just shag her in his mind without some kind of ultimate formal structure in his mind as well.) My prediction for Season 3: He reveals the lust he’s had for the maid to Cora, who reassures him that it’s quite alright because he’s still her husband and a good father and she loves him “and besides, I’ve been shagging Carson for more than twenty-years… didn’t you ever wonder _why_ he took such a fatherly interest in Mary?” ---
**Author:** ![Eyebrows\_0f\_Doom](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eyebrows_0f_doom/32/3119_2.png) [@Eyebrows\_0f\_Doom](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eyebrows_0f_Doom)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2012, 10:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/downton-abbey-series-2-pbs-please-no-unaired-spoilers/609368/414 "2012-02-15T22:00:11Z")
**AK84** , what is your problem? I did not click on your spoiler, so I have no idea if it’s big or small, or even real, but why would you come into a thread that says “no unaired spoilers” and \*purposefully \*write something that you know hasn’t aired? ---
**Author:** ![stargazer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/eb8c5e/32.png) [@stargazer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/stargazer)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2012, 10:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/downton-abbey-series-2-pbs-please-no-unaired-spoilers/609368/415 "2012-02-15T22:05:48Z")
> [@Toucanna](#): > > Ah, yes. _Qui bono?_ and all that. > Sir Richard Carlisle: because with Vera dead, only he can blackmail Lady Mary. > Bates: he gets all her stuff and is free to remarry. > Anna: she can marry Bates, share in his $ and possesions, and leave service to go into business with Bates. > Lord G: gets to keep Bates as his valet. > Mrs. Hughes: gets to keep Anna, who is a good worker, and protects the name of the bouse of Grantham, thus protecting her job. > Lady Mary: keeps Vera from blabbing and keeps Anna as her maid. > Lady G: protects Mary’s reputation, thus allowing the wedding to happen, and keeps Anna. > Lady Edith: protects the family’s name, thus protecting her marriageability. > Thomas Barrows: to get back at/sabotage Bates. > O’Brien: to sabotage Bates and Anna. > Lady Sybil: No! Not Lady Sybil!!! > > Anyone else have a motive? They showed O’Brien overhearing one of Anna & Bates’ conversations, right when Bates was getting off the phone - I don’t remember what the conversation was about (a little help, anyone?), but it put the seed in my head that it might be O’Brien - out of honest motives, though, not to sabotage Bates & Anna. Also, O’Brien’s newfound loyalty to Lady Grantham might come into play - earlier this season, she and Thomas were talking, and O’Brien was worrying over the Mrs. Bates thing, and regretting that she’d told her that Bates was back at Downton. ---
**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2012, 10:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/downton-abbey-series-2-pbs-please-no-unaired-spoilers/609368/416 "2012-02-15T22:07:00Z")
> [@Eyebrows\_0f\_Doom](#): > > **AK84** , what is your problem? I did not click on your spoiler, so I have no idea if it’s big or small, or even real, but why would you come into a thread that says “no unaired spoilers” and \*purposefully \*write something that you know hasn’t aired? IAN **AK84** and can’t speak for him, but I did read his “spoiler”. To be fair, I think he was making a joke by posting something that he thought was uninformative and disconnected enough not to really count as “spoiling” anything about the show for anyone. In other words, more of a teaser than a spoiler. I’m not trying to argue with the modding decisions or with anyone who thought it was out of line, just pointing out that AFAICT, **AK84** wasn’t in fact seriously trying to disrespect the spoiler ban. ---
**Author:** ![Toucanna](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/3bc359/32.png) [@Toucanna](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Toucanna)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2012, 10:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/downton-abbey-series-2-pbs-please-no-unaired-spoilers/609368/417 "2012-02-15T22:09:36Z")
> [@Sampiro](#): > > I took it as a parallel to Lord Robert’s mid-life crisis… In part, he was feeling neglected by Lady G who had been so dreadfully busy overseeing the management of the house and its convalescent ward. Also, if we’re going to slam Julian Fellowes for his inaccuracies then, out of a sense of fair play, I’m obliged to clarify that Robert Crawley’s style of address is “Lord Grantham”. > [@Sampiro](#): > > My prediction for Season 3:… LOL! 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Toucanna](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/3bc359/32.png) [@Toucanna](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Toucanna)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2012, 10:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/downton-abbey-series-2-pbs-please-no-unaired-spoilers/609368/418 "2012-02-15T22:14:56Z")
> [@Kimstu](#): > > {snip}…I’m not trying to argue with the modding decisions or with anyone who thought it was out of line, just pointing out that AFAICT, **AK84** wasn’t in fact seriously trying to disrespect the spoiler ban. I saw the post before it was spoiler-tagged and even if it’s true, it doesn’t seem to be a big deal. That said, I would be most truly, really, honestly, sincerely and humbly appreciative if folks were to refrain from posting spoilers here. After the 2011 Christmas special airs on PBS (scheduled for this coming Sunday), everyone will be free to discuss whichever plot points they wish. Thank you for understanding. ::blows kisses to all:: ---
**Author:** ![Toucanna](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/3bc359/32.png) [@Toucanna](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Toucanna)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2012, 10:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/downton-abbey-series-2-pbs-please-no-unaired-spoilers/609368/419 "2012-02-15T22:22:46Z")
> [@John\_Bredin](#): > > Lady Edith started this whole damned snowball rolling… I agree. But she was very young, very foolish, and very jealous when she wrote the letter, and probably could not foresee how her actions might very well come back to bite her in the bustle. ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2012, 10:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/downton-abbey-series-2-pbs-please-no-unaired-spoilers/609368/420 "2012-02-15T22:34:08Z")
I’ve been young too but I’ve never done something so vindictive. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/downton-abbey-series-2-pbs-please-no-unaired-spoilers/609368.md?page=20) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/downton-abbey-series-2-pbs-please-no-unaired-spoilers/609368.md?page=22)