# Downton Abbey, Series 2 (PBS) \[Please, no unaired spoilers\] **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [January 13, 2012, 4:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/downton-abbey-series-2-pbs-please-no-unaired-spoilers/609368 "2012-01-13T04:06:18Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 23
**Author:** ![AK84](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/85e7bf/32.png) [@AK84](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AK84)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2012, 9:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/downton-abbey-series-2-pbs-please-no-unaired-spoilers/609368/441 "2012-02-16T09:13:33Z")
> [@Sampiro](#): > > Actually, what was Vera’s evidence of the Dead Turk in the Night to begin with? She’d heard the rumor but, as mentioned, so had many other people, and presumably what she heard was true (we don’t know _exactly_ what she told Sir Richard) but the only evidence I can think of that existed anywhere was Lady Edith’s letter and she certainly wouldn’t have had that, so it’s just a tale told by a low class woman of bad character who by her own admission heard it years after it happened from somebody who had herself heard it second hand. I thought that England had harder libel laws than the U.S.\*. If she can get money for that then why not go all out and claim Cora once had a fling with the Kaiser or that Lady Sibyl was a Bolshevik agent? > \*Oscar Wilde’s absolute horror of a lover (and downfall) Alfred Douglas made a small fortune by suing newspapers for libel, then went to jail 6 months in the in the early 1920s for libeling Churchill and lost a [not small] fortune in other libel judgements and defense fees. SPOILER ALERT Vera needs little details. The story writes itself. A foreign diplomat of Country that the UK was currently at war with dies inside home (and as we know the unmarried daughter) of an English Earl. The story is bad enough as it is, and a simple rumour that there was more than meets the eye would be sufficient. ---
**Author:** ![PunditLisa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/4af34b/32.png) [@PunditLisa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PunditLisa)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2012, 12:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/downton-abbey-series-2-pbs-please-no-unaired-spoilers/609368/442 "2012-02-16T12:44:23Z")
> [@Sampiro](#): > > I may have missed something, but the only real case against Bates is circumstantial, right? He benefitted and she said she was afraid of him in a letter? He also bought rat poison, at Vera’s request, a few months prior to her death. The rat poison contained arsenic. Bates and Anna argued as to whether he should bring that point up to the police himself or risk letting them find it out through investigation. I’m not sure what he did. Of course, given the state of their marriage, what idiot would purchase rat poison anyway? Not because he’d think that it would implicate her in her death, but because he had good reason to be afraid that she’d use it on HIM. Personally, I think that Bates didn’t do it because he’s too honorable. He went to prison for Vera, he wouldn’t kiss Anna for YEARS, he resigned from the Grantham household when Vera threatened to expose Mary’s ill-kept secret…Nah, it wasn’t him. Hey, maybe Vera died after buying “flour” from Thomas – and it ended up being rat poison! ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2012, 12:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/downton-abbey-series-2-pbs-please-no-unaired-spoilers/609368/443 "2012-02-16T12:54:52Z")
> [@AK84](#): > > I really really hope that was a woosh. It’s not a whoosh. I don’t even watch previews or promos because I don’t want to know anything about an episode in advance. ---
**Author:** ![Misnomer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/misnomer/32/14897_2.png) [@Misnomer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Misnomer)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2012, 1:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/downton-abbey-series-2-pbs-please-no-unaired-spoilers/609368/444 "2012-02-16T13:32:49Z")
> [@Sampiro](#): > > OTOH, a show about _just_ the hotel might work. I _think_ I’ve read this entire thread, and I don’t recall anyone mentioning _[The Duchess of Duke Street](http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0077004/)_: a wonderful 1976 BBC series about a woman who starts off wanting to be a cook and winds up owning/running a hotel. The show follows thirty-five years of her life, from when she starts as a young woman “downstairs” through her running of the hotel as an “upstairs” person. It takes place from 1900-1935. > [@Toucanna](#): > > [O’Brien]So, you’re so much better than the rest of us who were content with watching the version aired in the USA?[/O’Brien] Yep. 😃 I can’t seem to find an unedited version of the second season – one that I trust is _truly_ uncut – but when I do I’ll get that, too. ---
**Author:** ![twickster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ec9cab/32.png) [@twickster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/twickster)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2012, 2:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/downton-abbey-series-2-pbs-please-no-unaired-spoilers/609368/445 "2012-02-16T14:23:27Z")
> [@AK84](#): > > I really really hope that was a woosh. **AK84** – it doesn’t matter what your attitude is about spoilers, this is a thread where people have made it exquisitely clear that they don’t want them. Knock off your behavior now – next time you stick a toe over that line I’ll give you a warning for being a jerk, and if you continue after that I’ll issue additional warnings as necessary for ignoring moderator instructions. **twickster** , Cafe Society moderator ETA: Information from episodes that have already aired, including shows from last season, are not considered spoilers. Stop acting like you think they are – it is jerkish. ---
**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2012, 2:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/downton-abbey-series-2-pbs-please-no-unaired-spoilers/609368/446 "2012-02-16T14:38:28Z")
> [@AK84](#): > > SPOILER ALERT Dude, you are making me kinda regret that I tried to stick up for you. I enjoy your actual comments on the episodes, but please, can you just let it go with the “S”-word thing? Thanks. ---
**Author:** ![MsJinx](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/278dde/32.png) [@MsJinx](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MsJinx)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2012, 4:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/downton-abbey-series-2-pbs-please-no-unaired-spoilers/609368/447 "2012-02-16T16:06:23Z")
Regarding who could have killed Vera Bates: Wasn’t she in London? It took quite awhile to get there, so if it was someone at Downton, they would be missed. If it was staff, they would have had to arrange transport to the train station as well. Bates having been there, and returning with a scratch or bruise on his face implicates him, but that’s a classic red herring. I don’t recall if any other staff members commented on it, besides Anna. IIRC, what O’Brien overheard was something Bates said what could be interepreted as a threat on Vera’s life if she didn’t leave them alone. I think she wouldn’t hesitate to volunteer what she overheard and put the worst spin on it. ---
**Author:** ![AK84](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/85e7bf/32.png) [@AK84](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AK84)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2012, 4:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/downton-abbey-series-2-pbs-please-no-unaired-spoilers/609368/448 "2012-02-16T16:18:41Z")
> [@twickster](#): > > **AK84** – it doesn’t matter what your attitude is about spoilers, this is a thread where people have made it exquisitely clear that they don’t want them. Knock off your behavior now – next time you stick a toe over that line I’ll give you a warning for being a jerk, and if you continue after that I’ll issue additional warnings as necessary for ignoring moderator instructions. > > **twickster** , Cafe Society moderator > ETA: Information from episodes that have already aired, including shows from last season, are not considered spoilers. Stop acting like you think they are – it is jerkish. You can issue me one warnings or ten, or five thousand or ban me or change my username to Shirley McLain. That is your prerogative and you may do what you please. And as for air date; aired where? T[he first season is still not fully aired in Croatia, Hong Kong and the Czech Republic](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Downton_Abbey#Releases), never mind the rest of the series. So according to your “logic” any information that might spoil it for American viewers is bad, but you will shrug that off for anyone else? Or for someone who has not seen the series yet? ---
**Author:** ![Rhiannon8404](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rhiannon8404/32/17929_2.png) [@Rhiannon8404](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rhiannon8404)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2012, 4:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/downton-abbey-series-2-pbs-please-no-unaired-spoilers/609368/449 "2012-02-16T16:24:12Z")
> [@AK84](#): > > You can issue me one warnings or ten, or five thousand or ban me or change my username to Shirley McLain. That is your prerogative and you may do what you please. > And as for air date; aired where? T[he first season is still not fully aired in Croatia, Hong Kong and the Czech Republic](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Downton_Abbey#Releases), never mind the rest of the series. So according to your “logic” any information that might spoil it for American viewers is bad, but you will shrug that off for anyone else? Or for someone who has not seen the series yet? Well it does say, “PBS” in the title of the thread, so presumably no spoilers for anything that hasn’t aired on PBS, which is an American network. ---
**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2012, 4:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/downton-abbey-series-2-pbs-please-no-unaired-spoilers/609368/450 "2012-02-16T16:28:58Z")
> [@AK84](#): > > And as for air date; aired where? T[he first season is still not fully aired in Croatia, Hong Kong and the Czech Republic](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Downton_Abbey#Releases), never mind the rest of the series. So according to your “logic” any information that might spoil it for American viewers is bad, but you will shrug that off for anyone else? Or for someone who has not seen the series yet? Conditions about spoilers in threads are usually set according to the explicitly stated preferences of the thread’s OP. Our OP, **Toucanna** , has made it very clear that she prefers that we not reveal any information about episodes that have not yet aired on PBS (American public television). If viewers in, say, Croatia or Hong Kong, or potential viewers who haven’t yet watched any episodes, would prefer not to know anything about episodes that have already aired in the US, then they are perfectly free not to read or participate in this thread. As are you, of course. You may be having some fun getting huffy about this thread’s spoiler policy, but at this point I have to say that you’re not really contributing to anybody else’s enjoyment of the discussion. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2012, 4:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/downton-abbey-series-2-pbs-please-no-unaired-spoilers/609368/451 "2012-02-16T16:40:12Z")
> [@AK84](#): > > You can issue me one warnings or ten, or five thousand or ban me or change my username to Shirley McLain. That is your prerogative and you may do what you please. > And as for air date; aired where? T[he first season is still not fully aired in Croatia, Hong Kong and the Czech Republic](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Downton_Abbey#Releases), never mind the rest of the series. So according to your “logic” any information that might spoil it for American viewers is bad, but you will shrug that off for anyone else? Or for someone who has not seen the series yet? **AK84** , this board is based in the U.S. and I believe the date mentioned in the OP reflects when this season started airing in the U.S. I understand you think people are being unreasonable about the spoilers - some people take them very, very seriously - but you’ve been asked nicely to stop, and failing to do so violates the “don’t be a jerk” rule. You’re not going to get banned over this, but it’s also not worth the trouble you’re putting into it. If you want to discuss SDMB policies on spoilers, start a thread in the About This Message Board forum. But don’t post another spoiler or fake spoiler in this thread, big or small, and stop arguing with the mods- that belongs in ATMB, not here. ---
**Author:** ![Dangerosa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/22d042/32.png) [@Dangerosa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dangerosa)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2012, 6:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/downton-abbey-series-2-pbs-please-no-unaired-spoilers/609368/452 "2012-02-16T18:24:21Z")
Ak84, we’ve discussed other BBC shows with US delayed air times on their UK schedule, just be clear when you create the thread title that you are talking about, say, the episodes of Sherlock that aired in the uk but not yet in the US (to cite a recent thread). ---
**Author:** ![MLS](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/919ad9/32.png) [@MLS](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MLS)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2012, 7:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/downton-abbey-series-2-pbs-please-no-unaired-spoilers/609368/453 "2012-02-16T19:09:45Z")
Personally, based on absolutely nothing, I think Bates did kill his first wife. He’s carrying a lot of simmering anger and I bet she pushed him just a bit too much just one too many times. This is not a spoiler. It’s a guess. I have no facts about the Christmas special or any subsequent episodes. ---
**Author:** ![Rhiannon8404](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rhiannon8404/32/17929_2.png) [@Rhiannon8404](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rhiannon8404)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2012, 7:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/downton-abbey-series-2-pbs-please-no-unaired-spoilers/609368/454 "2012-02-16T19:57:32Z")
> [@MLS](#): > > Personally, based on absolutely nothing, I think Bates did kill his first wife. He’s carrying a lot of simmering anger and I bet she pushed him just a bit too much just one too many times. > > This is not a spoiler. It’s a guess. I have no facts about the Christmas special or any subsequent episodes. Well, it will certainly be interesting if he did. I don’t think so, though. I think he loves Anna too much to drag her through that as his wife. It would make her look guilty as a conspirator. He would not have married her if he were actually guilty of the crime. Marrying Anna only make him look more guilty. ---
**Author:** ![TreacherousCretin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/treacherouscretin/32/476_2.png) [@TreacherousCretin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TreacherousCretin)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2012, 8:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/downton-abbey-series-2-pbs-please-no-unaired-spoilers/609368/455 "2012-02-16T20:14:04Z")
> [@Rhiannon8404](#): > > Well, it will certainly be interesting if he did. I don’t think so, though. I think he loves Anna too much to drag her through that as his wife. It would make her look guilty as a conspirator. He would not have married her if he were actually guilty of the crime. Marrying Anna only make him look more guilty. This is as good a time as any to ask- any theories about why Bates ruined his military career, and reputation, by going to prison for Vera? Especially when “everybody” (if I remember correctly) knew that she was the thief? . ---
**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2012, 8:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/downton-abbey-series-2-pbs-please-no-unaired-spoilers/609368/456 "2012-02-16T20:22:56Z")
> [@TreacherousCretin](#): > > This is as good a time as any to ask- any theories about why Bates ruined his military career, and reputation, by going to prison for Vera? Especially when “everybody” (if I remember correctly) knew that she was the thief? Just general overdeveloped sense of honor, IIRC, because he somehow feels he “ruined Vera’s life”. Presumably because of his former alcohol problems, which he may feel corrupted her character or perhaps led him to ill-treat her in some way. ---
**Author:** ![MsJinx](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/278dde/32.png) [@MsJinx](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MsJinx)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2012, 8:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/downton-abbey-series-2-pbs-please-no-unaired-spoilers/609368/457 "2012-02-16T20:25:50Z")
> [@Rhiannon8404](#): > > He would not have married her if he were actually guilty of the crime. Marrying Anna only make him look more guilty. Were there laws then that a wife did not have to testify against a husband in court? If he is accused and tried, the reasons for wanting to shut Vera up could bring up the rumors of Anna’s involvement with moving the Turk’s body, and he would not want Anna to have to testify that she was involved in that. ---
**Author:** ![woodstockbirdybird](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/woodstockbirdybird/32/7905_2.png) [@woodstockbirdybird](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/woodstockbirdybird)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2012, 8:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/downton-abbey-series-2-pbs-please-no-unaired-spoilers/609368/458 "2012-02-16T20:57:58Z")
Don’t know if it’s been mentioned yet, but I was shocked by the twist of having Matthew turn into a vampire after Lavinia’s death. ---
**Author:** ![Clockwork\_Jackal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/b5e925/32.png) [@Clockwork\_Jackal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Clockwork_Jackal)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2012, 9:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/downton-abbey-series-2-pbs-please-no-unaired-spoilers/609368/459 "2012-02-16T21:06:35Z")
As long as he’s not the sparkly kind. That would just be stupid. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Sampiro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/2acd7d/32.png) [@Sampiro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sampiro)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2012, 9:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/downton-abbey-series-2-pbs-please-no-unaired-spoilers/609368/460 "2012-02-16T21:08:42Z")
> [@woodstockbirdybird](#): > > Don’t know if it’s been mentioned yet, but I was shocked by the twist of having Matthew turn into a vampire after Lavinia’s death. They’ve hinted at it all along. Non-vampires are rarely that pale, and how do you think he got his spinal cord back if he wasn’t feeding off of William and then later Lavinia? By the next episode Lady Edith will be feeling puny but Matthew will be running laps around the house, at least until Violet goes Pissed-Off-McGonagall on him. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/downton-abbey-series-2-pbs-please-no-unaired-spoilers/609368.md?page=22) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/downton-abbey-series-2-pbs-please-no-unaired-spoilers/609368.md?page=24)