# Downton Abbey, Series 2 (PBS) \[Please, no unaired spoilers\] **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [January 13, 2012, 4:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/downton-abbey-series-2-pbs-please-no-unaired-spoilers/609368 "2012-01-13T04:06:18Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 25
**Author:** ![Dangerosa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/22d042/32.png) [@Dangerosa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dangerosa)\ **Post date:** [February 17, 2012, 12:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/downton-abbey-series-2-pbs-please-no-unaired-spoilers/609368/481 "2012-02-17T00:18:27Z")
> [@Toucanna](#): > > Dagnabbit!! Why can’t you people get it through your thick skulls that “no spoilers” means “no spoilers”?!?!? > > j/k!!!😃 Yeah, there is a rule about expecting no spoilers when the source material is 200 years old…🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Rhiannon8404](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rhiannon8404/32/17929_2.png) [@Rhiannon8404](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rhiannon8404)\ **Post date:** [February 17, 2012, 12:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/downton-abbey-series-2-pbs-please-no-unaired-spoilers/609368/482 "2012-02-17T00:19:40Z")
> [@Toucanna](#): > > That said, I don’t know why Bates & Anna needed a “special licence” in order to get married, as they were not marrying outside their parish. They just needed a common licence in order to bypass the delay that a reading of the banns would cause. Is it possible they needed a special license because Vera hadn’t been dead very long? Is there some sort of mourning period that should have been observed or something? (wag) ---
**Author:** ![Toucanna](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/3bc359/32.png) [@Toucanna](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Toucanna)\ **Post date:** [February 17, 2012, 12:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/downton-abbey-series-2-pbs-please-no-unaired-spoilers/609368/483 "2012-02-17T00:35:11Z")
> [@Dangerosa](#): > > Yeah, there is a rule about expecting no spoilers when the source material is 200 years old…🙂 [Or even just 52.](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=14761707&postcount=290) ---
**Author:** ![Toucanna](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/3bc359/32.png) [@Toucanna](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Toucanna)\ **Post date:** [February 17, 2012, 1:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/downton-abbey-series-2-pbs-please-no-unaired-spoilers/609368/484 "2012-02-17T01:48:24Z")
> [@Rhiannon8404](#): > > Is it possible they needed a special license because Vera hadn’t been dead very long? Is there some sort of mourning period that should have been observed or something? (wag) You bring up a good point. The only info on the subject I can find deals with mourning customs among the upper class during the Edwardian Era. Widowers were expected to be in mourning for at least two years. Bates was in service, and thus not a member of the upperclass, so I don’t know how long his mourning period was supposed to be. I found one mention of how the “lower classes” (that is, anyone who was not upperclass) would dye all their clothes black if they could not afford to buy or have made mourning clothes. ---
**Author:** ![Savannah](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b3f665/32.png) [@Savannah](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Savannah)\ **Post date:** [February 17, 2012, 5:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/downton-abbey-series-2-pbs-please-no-unaired-spoilers/609368/485 "2012-02-17T05:04:15Z")
> [@Misnomer](#): > > I _think_ I’ve read this entire thread, and I don’t recall anyone mentioning _[The Duchess of Duke Street](http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0077004/)_: a wonderful 1976 BBC series about a woman who starts off wanting to be a cook and winds up owning/running a hotel. The show follows thirty-five years of her life, from when she starts as a young woman “downstairs” through her running of the hotel as an “upstairs” person. It takes place from 1900-1935. > > Yep. 😃 > > I can’t seem to find an unedited version of the second season – one that I trust is _truly_ uncut – but when I do I’ll get that, too. Eve highly recommended it, and she was right. We’re off to watch some more of it now! Sorry about the hijack, but until Downton Abbey’s third series, we need a fix of English costume drama. Very much enjoying Duchess; thank you, **Eve**. ---
**Author:** ![Oslo\_Ostragoth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/a9a28c/32.png) [@Oslo\_Ostragoth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Oslo_Ostragoth)\ **Post date:** [February 17, 2012, 5:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/downton-abbey-series-2-pbs-please-no-unaired-spoilers/609368/486 "2012-02-17T05:09:23Z")
> [@Toucanna](#): > > My apologies for not being clearer. The “rolleyes” was directed at the filmmakers’ decision to make Matthew pasty-faced as indicator of the depth of his grief. My comment was meant as an extension of, and not a rebuttal to/criticism of, other folks’ poking fun at Matthew’s excessive pallor after Lavinia’s demise. I completely missed his being pale. That shows you the level of my TV comprehension ability\*. I may have to join the Jersey Shore crowd to be among my peers. \*Is there such a thing as TVQ, corresponding to the more familiar IQ? ---
**Author:** ![Oslo\_Ostragoth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/a9a28c/32.png) [@Oslo\_Ostragoth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Oslo_Ostragoth)\ **Post date:** [February 17, 2012, 5:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/downton-abbey-series-2-pbs-please-no-unaired-spoilers/609368/487 "2012-02-17T05:11:18Z")
> [@Savannah](#): > > Eve highly recommended it, and she was right. We’re off to watch some more of it now! > > Sorry about the hijack, but until Downton Abbey’s third series, we need a fix of English costume drama. > > Very much enjoying Duchess; thank you, **Eve**. Available where? ---
**Author:** ![AK84](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/85e7bf/32.png) [@AK84](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AK84)\ **Post date:** [February 17, 2012, 5:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/downton-abbey-series-2-pbs-please-no-unaired-spoilers/609368/488 "2012-02-17T05:36:26Z")
> [@Oslo\_Ostragoth](#): > > Available where? In locations which should remain nameless I presume. ---
**Author:** ![alphaboi867](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alphaboi867/32/3898_2.png) [@alphaboi867](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/alphaboi867)\ **Post date:** [February 17, 2012, 6:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/downton-abbey-series-2-pbs-please-no-unaired-spoilers/609368/489 "2012-02-17T06:09:23Z")
> [@Kimstu](#): > > Yup, in the Church of England you gotta call the banns for three consecutive Sundays in your parish of residence, or else you get the Archbishop of Canterbury to issue you a special license (sorry, “licence”) and waive the waiting period. I believe this requirement still holds if you want to be married in the Anglican church. > [@Dangerosa](#): > > …It needed to be signed by a bishop - which means you had to know a bishop or be able to get access to one (I don’t think it had to be the Archbishop of Canterbury, just a bishop, but I could be misinformed). This is why Mrs. Bennett gets so excited about a “special license” in Pride and Prejudice. > [@Toucanna](#): > > …That said, I don’t know why Bates & Anna needed a “special licence” in order to get married, as they were not marrying outside their parish. They just needed a common licence in order to bypass the delay that a reading of the banns would cause. Anna & Bates didn’t get married in a church; they got married in a register office. The special licence Bates got was from the superintendant registrar to waive the waiting period so they could get married right away. It was a civil wedding so it had nothing to do with bishops, the Church of England, banns, or parish boundries. > [@Toucanna](#): > > …I found one mention of how the “lower classes” (that is, anyone who was not upperclass) would dye all their clothes black if they could not afford to buy or have made mourning clothes. People in service would’ve worn a black armband over their uniforms. We’ve seen Daisy wearing one now that she’s stuck mourning for William. ---
**Author:** ![PrettyVacant](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/49beb7/32.png) [@PrettyVacant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PrettyVacant)\ **Post date:** [February 17, 2012, 8:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/downton-abbey-series-2-pbs-please-no-unaired-spoilers/609368/490 "2012-02-17T08:22:49Z")
Just a head up: Upstairs Downstairs appears to be returning this Sunday evening, it’s further to the not-overly inspiring Christmas Special from 14 months ago: > **[Upstairs Downstairs is not another Downton Abbey, says Heidi Thomas](https://www.theguardian.com/tv-and-radio/tvandradioblog/2012/jan/31/upstairs-downstairs-downton-abbey-heidi-thomas)** > > Call the Midwife screenwriter describes the challenge of resurrecting famous period drama Upstairs Downstairs. By Vicky Frost Also, the current Sunday period favourite is something called ‘Call the Midwife’, I have no idea if/when it’s due to air in the US but it is a BBC production. The latter is more a ‘heads out’, I 'spose: > **[Call the Midwife](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Call_the_Midwife)** > > Call the Midwife is a BBC period drama series about a group of nurse midwives working in the East End of London in the late 1950s and 1960s. The principal cast of the show has included Jessica Raine, Miranda Hart, Helen George, Bryony Hannah, Laura Main, Jenny Agutter, Pam Ferris, Judy Parfitt, Cliff Parisi, Stephen McGann, Ben Caplan, Daniel Laurie, Emerald Fennell, Victoria Yeates, Jack Ashton, Linda Bassett, Charlotte Ritchie, Kate Lamb, Jennifer Kirby, Annabelle Apsion and Leonie Elliott. > ... ---
**Author:** ![Toucanna](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/3bc359/32.png) [@Toucanna](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Toucanna)\ **Post date:** [February 17, 2012, 9:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/downton-abbey-series-2-pbs-please-no-unaired-spoilers/609368/491 "2012-02-17T09:11:52Z")
[QUOTE=alphaboi867] Anna & Bates didn’t get married in a church; they got married in a register office… [/quote] Missed that point. Seems I’ll be joining **Oslo Ostragoth** in that remedial TV watching class. 😃 [QUOTE=alphaboi867] People in service would’ve worn a black armband over their uniforms… [/QUOTE] Agreed. I think the clothes dyeing thing was for their civvies. But, as I said, I haven’t found much info about it online. ---
**Author:** ![Eve](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/9e8a1a/32.png) [@Eve](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eve)\ **Post date:** [February 17, 2012, 1:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/downton-abbey-series-2-pbs-please-no-unaired-spoilers/609368/492 "2012-02-17T13:49:00Z")
> [@Savannah](#): > > Very much enjoying Duchess; thank you, **Eve**. \*'Ta! \*Ain’t it a right corker, then? ---
**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\ **Post date:** [February 17, 2012, 2:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/downton-abbey-series-2-pbs-please-no-unaired-spoilers/609368/493 "2012-02-17T14:35:18Z")
> [@Rhiannon8404](#): > > Is it possible they needed a special license because Vera hadn’t been dead very long? Is there some sort of mourning period that should have been observed or something? (wag) Thanks to **alphaboi** for clearing up what the special license was about in this case, but AFAIK no kind of marriage formalities specified any extra waiting period for a widow or widower. “Till death do us part” means what it says: the moment one spouse kicked the bucket, the surviving spouse became equivalent to any other single person as far as British marriage laws were concerned.\* Sartorially speaking, I’m not sure but I **think** that it would not have been considered mandatory (and might even have seemed in bad taste) to go into mourning for a divorced ex-spouse. \*Okay, disregarding technicalities about the tables of affinity and deceased wife’s sister and so forth that don’t apply here. ---
**Author:** ![Bridget\_Burke](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7cd45c/32.png) [@Bridget\_Burke](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bridget_Burke)\ **Post date:** [February 17, 2012, 2:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/downton-abbey-series-2-pbs-please-no-unaired-spoilers/609368/494 "2012-02-17T14:49:03Z")
> [@Toucanna](#): > > @ **John Bredin** : simulpost! > > But now that you mention it…Is Sybil converting to RCC in order to marry Branson? Is Branson agreeing to a CoE service in order to please Sybil? Where in Ireland of 1920 would they go to have a CoE wedding? Church of Ireland (not CoE) weddings could be done all over Ireland–& still can. (Except perhaps in the most isolated areas.) The most ancient Irish churches were appropriated by the Church of Ireland–if they weren’t knocked down. But the Church of Ireland congregations have dwindled & some of the old churches are falling into ruin. ([Like this one](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clonfert_Cathedral).) ---
**Author:** ![Misnomer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/misnomer/32/14897_2.png) [@Misnomer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Misnomer)\ **Post date:** [February 17, 2012, 3:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/downton-abbey-series-2-pbs-please-no-unaired-spoilers/609368/495 "2012-02-17T15:18:25Z")
> [@Toucanna](#): > > The lovely **Eve** gave it high marks in post #92. So she did! :smack: Sorry, **Eve**! 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Toucanna](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/3bc359/32.png) [@Toucanna](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Toucanna)\ **Post date:** [February 17, 2012, 3:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/downton-abbey-series-2-pbs-please-no-unaired-spoilers/609368/496 "2012-02-17T15:59:56Z")
[QUOTE=Kimstu] …I’m not sure but I **think** that it would not have been considered mandatory (and might even have seemed in bad taste) to go into mourning for a divorced ex-spouse. [/QUOTE] But, but, but…unless I totally missed something, weren’t John and Vera Bates still married at the time of her death? Not arguing, just confused. [QUOTE=Bridget Burke] Church of Ireland (not CoE)… [/QUOTE] Ta! and a belated “Ta!” to **alphaboi867**. Who says this thread is all fluff and no substance? We’re _learning_ history and religious customs and social customs and language and all kinds of egg-head stuff here! ---
**Author:** ![Bridget\_Burke](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7cd45c/32.png) [@Bridget\_Burke](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bridget_Burke)\ **Post date:** [February 17, 2012, 4:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/downton-abbey-series-2-pbs-please-no-unaired-spoilers/609368/497 "2012-02-17T16:11:58Z")
> [@Toucanna](#): > > But, but, but…unless I totally missed something, weren’t John and Vera Bates still married at the time of her death? Not arguing, just confused… > > Ta! and a belated “Ta!” to **alphaboi867**. Who says this thread is all fluff and no substance? We’re _learning_ history and religious customs and social customs and language and all kinds of egg-head stuff here! You’re right. The divorce never went through. Next up: A dissertation on Divorce Law Reform in Early 20th Century England. With vampires! And wouldn’t Vera make a great one… ---
**Author:** ![Toucanna](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/3bc359/32.png) [@Toucanna](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Toucanna)\ **Post date:** [February 17, 2012, 4:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/downton-abbey-series-2-pbs-please-no-unaired-spoilers/609368/498 "2012-02-17T16:19:29Z")
[QUOTE=Bridget Burke] And wouldn’t Vera make a great one… [/QUOTE] Now that you mention it, I believe she would, seeing as how before she snuffed it she was a life-draining leech. ---
**Author:** ![raindrop](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/74df32/32.png) [@raindrop](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/raindrop)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2012, 12:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/downton-abbey-series-2-pbs-please-no-unaired-spoilers/609368/499 "2012-02-18T00:00:48Z")
> [@Misnomer](#): > > True, but she _did_ say that she’d given her heart to Branson. (I just watched the episode last night.) > [@Toucanna](#): > > Yup, which is why I was under the impression Sybil has used the L word. Sorry to be so nitpicky, but I get a different read on Sybil’s “giving my heart” comment too. Sybil’s comment was really more of a challenging question that she asked when Branson expressed his doubt about her. I scribbled it down (in _very_ bad handwriting, so this might not be exact, although close). She said, “Am I so weak that you think I can be talked out of giving my heart in five minutes?” And then she said some more words (that I can’t read, grrr), and followed those with “… I will be true to you,” which also didn’t sound romantic or loving to my cynical ears. When she challenged/questioned Branson I wondered, did she give her heart to him somewhere off-screen? because I sure didn’t see it. My opinion is that Sybil is exploiting Branson’s obsession with her, giving him just enough to make him think she’s devoted, but not enough to betray her own true feelings. As to another topic, I’m enjoying that the woman playing Daisy is being given more to do beside standing there like a lovestruck doe while pining over Thomas. I like that the Daisy character is being further developed, e.g. talking back to Mrs. Patmore (and others), being very principled and strong in her stance, wanting to bake a wedding cake (yikes!), etc. And I think they are making Matthew look spooky for a reason. Combine his horrid war experiences, with his own severe injuries, with survivor guilt re William, and then his guilt re Lavinia’s death, all gives me the idea they are making him look translucently spooky because he’s about to crack up. Will the next Lord G be emotionally unstable? ---
**Author:** ![MsJinx](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/278dde/32.png) [@MsJinx](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MsJinx)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2012, 1:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/downton-abbey-series-2-pbs-please-no-unaired-spoilers/609368/500 "2012-02-18T01:40:07Z")
> [@raindrop](#): > > As to another topic, I’m enjoying that the woman playing Daisy is being given more to do beside standing there like a lovestruck doe while pining over Thomas. I like that the Daisy character is being further developed, e.g. talking back to Mrs. Patmore (and others), being very principled and strong in her stance, wanting to bake a wedding cake (yikes!), etc. I think Daisy got over Thomas long ago, when she saw how cruel he was to William -not because she especially liked William then, but she could see that Thomas was just a jerk. Maybe it was the comment he made about William’s dead mother, which led to fisticuffs with everyone cheering William on. And urging her to lie and say she saw Bates steal wine. Then his bossiness to her when he was managing the convalescent ward. And then the bad commodities. She can see he isn’t an honorable person, no matter how handsome she may have thought him to be. She has shown that she is honest and has very good character. That said, what is the deal with William’s father wanting her to spend time with him, at least as far as it being woven into the story line. Does he maybe think he could take her as a wife? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/downton-abbey-series-2-pbs-please-no-unaired-spoilers/609368.md?page=24) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/downton-abbey-series-2-pbs-please-no-unaired-spoilers/609368.md?page=26)