# Downton Abbey, Series 2 (PBS) \[Please, no unaired spoilers\] **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [January 13, 2012, 4:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/downton-abbey-series-2-pbs-please-no-unaired-spoilers/609368 "2012-01-13T04:06:18Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 27
**Author:** ![Toucanna](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/3bc359/32.png) [@Toucanna](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Toucanna)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2012, 7:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/downton-abbey-series-2-pbs-please-no-unaired-spoilers/609368/521 "2012-02-18T19:40:26Z")
> [@Acsenray](#): > > I’d be in favor of a separate thread. Shall I start it, or would you like to? When should the thread be started? Before the episode starts, with folks posting comments while it airs? Upon the episode’s end? ---
**Author:** ![Toucanna](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/3bc359/32.png) [@Toucanna](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Toucanna)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2012, 7:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/downton-abbey-series-2-pbs-please-no-unaired-spoilers/609368/522 "2012-02-18T19:42:55Z")
> [@](#): > > **John Bredin** > It’s also a neat parallel with Sir Richard’s one-foot-on-the-platform…“we’d be great partners”/no-L-word marriage proposal to Lady Mary. Has either Sir Richard or Lady Mary used the L word, ever, in context of their relationship? Episode 1, ~1:37:00 SCENE: Grantham station. Lady Mary is seeing SIr Richard off after his first visit to Downton. Lady Mary: But, Sir Richard, you don’t have to… Sir Richard: “Richard”, please. You see, I want you to marry me. Lady Mary: Why? Sir Richard: Because I think very highly of you. Lady Mary: Very highly? Goodness! Sir Richard: I mean it. I think we’d do well together. We should be a good team. Lady Mary: Now that sounds better. But I can’t help thinking, that tradition demands a little mention of “love”. Sir Richard: Oh, I can talk about “love” and “moon” and “June” and all the rest of it if you wish, but we’re more than that. We’re strong, and sharp, and we can build something worth having, you and I. If you let us. Lady Mary: You’re proposal is improving by leaps and bounds. (pause) You must give me some time. But I promise to think about it, properly. Sir Richard: I’m counting on it. (Sir Richard touches his hat, then boards train.) END SCENE ---
**Author:** ![Toucanna](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/3bc359/32.png) [@Toucanna](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Toucanna)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2012, 7:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/downton-abbey-series-2-pbs-please-no-unaired-spoilers/609368/523 "2012-02-18T19:47:24Z")
> [@](#): > > **Sampiro** > Actually, what was Vera’s evidence of the Dead Turk in the Night to begin with? Episode 1, about 0:40:00 SCENE: In Mrs. Hughes’ sitting room. Vera, to Bates: Sit down. Bates: I don’t want to sit down. Vera: Suit yourself. Bates: Look, I’m not syaing it’s all your fault for how things were between us, but I couldn’t go back to that. I’ll take the blame. I’ll go to some hotel in Malton\* with a tart. So why hold on? Vera: Because I tried it on my own and I don’t like it. You’ve got money now. We’ll be comfortable. Bates: (scoffs) You’re out of your mind. (Pause) What makes you think that I would allow that to happen? Vera: You went to prison for me once. (Pause, looks at tea cup). I must say this is very good. Does Lord Grantham have his own blend? Bates: Is that all? Vera: Not quite. You see, if you don’t come back to me, I’m going to the newspapers with a cracking story. And I’d like to bet the Granthams won’t survive it. Bates: Oh? And what nonsense is this? Vera: The nonsense I heard when I used your name to get a job with Lady Flintshire\*\*, His Lordship’s cousin. Bates: I know who Lady Flintshire is. Vera: When I arrived, her maid asked me if it was true, about Lady Mary Crawley and the Turkish diplomat. They thought I’d know, you see, being your wife. Bates: I hope you told them you knew nothing about it. Vera: (laughs uproariously, then sighs) I said, “Why don’t you tell me what you think you know, and I’ll tell you if its true.” Goodness me, was my patience rewarded. The public’s bored with the war, you see. They like gossip. And a diplomat dying in the bed of an earl’s unmarried daughter, well! That takes the ticket for the tale of the year Bates: That’s a pack of lies!!! Vera: I assume that’s loyalty, and not ignorance, because, you see, I heard that Lady Mary used her maid to help her carry him, and yes, you guessed it. Your precious Anna is going to figure in the story, too. Not to worry too much. It’s not a criminal offense is it? Just a social one. Bates: You bitch! (grabs Vera’s forearm) Vera: Please, be my guest, but you must excuse me while I run into town and have it photographed. Bates: (releases Vera and sits down) What do you want from me? Vera: Firstly, you hand in your notice–tonight. I’ll put up at the pub in the village. Bates: And what _reason_ do I give? Vera: You don’t need a reason, Just tell them that you’re going. And then tomorrow we head back to London. We can stay in your mother’s house for the time being, until we get ourselves sorted. And in case you’re wondering, whatever my future plans may be, they’ll involve you. END SCENE Cut to shot of Mrs. Hughes in the adjoining room, listening at the grate, Indistinct conversation filters in from her sitting room. * * * Trivia: \*Malton is a small town in north Yorkshire. \*\*The Marquess of Flintshire is the minister the Dowager Countess calls to get William Mason sent to Downton for his “convalesence”. The Marquess is her nephew, “Shrimpy”. ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2012, 8:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/downton-abbey-series-2-pbs-please-no-unaired-spoilers/609368/524 "2012-02-18T20:08:53Z")
> [@Toucanna](#): > > Shall I start it, or would you like to? > > When should the thread be started? Before the episode starts, with folks posting comments while it airs? Upon the episode’s end? [Here you go](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=642513) ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2012, 8:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/downton-abbey-series-2-pbs-please-no-unaired-spoilers/609368/525 "2012-02-18T20:13:47Z")
:smack: Of course I screwed up the spoiler dates in the OP! I’ve asked a mod to correct them, but until then, read all the dates as Feb. 19, even if they say Feb. 16 or Feb. 18. ---
**Author:** ![Toucanna](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/3bc359/32.png) [@Toucanna](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Toucanna)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2012, 8:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/downton-abbey-series-2-pbs-please-no-unaired-spoilers/609368/526 "2012-02-18T20:32:42Z")
Some more trivia: The [Marconi scandal](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marconi_scandal), which was precipitated when Lavinia Swire delivered her uncle’s confidential documents to Sir Richard Carlisle. “Haxby Park”: There is a town called [Haxby](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haxby), about 5 miles NNE of York. There is a neighborhood called “Park Estate” a little bit south of Haxby. [Edwardian Era Etiquette](http://edwardianpromenade.com/category/etiquette/) [Tons o’ links to info about the Edwardian Era](http://fashion-era.com/1890-1914_la_belle_epoque.htm) ---
**Author:** ![MsJinx](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/278dde/32.png) [@MsJinx](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MsJinx)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2012, 8:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/downton-abbey-series-2-pbs-please-no-unaired-spoilers/609368/527 "2012-02-18T20:33:35Z")
RE: Sybil - in love or not: Branson: Do you mean you’ve made your decision? ## Sybil: Yes. My answer is…that I’m ready to travel and you are my ticket to get away from this house, away from this life. Doesn’t sound very romantic - she refers to him as her ticket out, and then allows him to kiss her, not that ‘we’ can only kiss for now, but that he can kiss her. ---
**Author:** ![Savannah](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b3f665/32.png) [@Savannah](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Savannah)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2012, 8:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/downton-abbey-series-2-pbs-please-no-unaired-spoilers/609368/528 "2012-02-18T20:35:53Z")
> [@Oslo\_Ostragoth](#): > > Available where? To be honest, we didn’t obtain it through channels not spoken of. My friend has the series (The Duchess of Duke Street) on DVD and so lent it to us. I don’t quite know where she obtained it. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2012, 9:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/downton-abbey-series-2-pbs-please-no-unaired-spoilers/609368/529 "2012-02-18T21:25:20Z")
Fellowes admits he overreacted to criticism of the show: [Downton Abbey writer regrets outburst | Television | The Guardian](http://www.guardian.co.uk/tv-and-radio/2011/sep/13/downton-abbey-writer-regrets-outburst?intcmp=239) According to that quiz, I’m Mr. Bates, too. But I’m not nearly as stoic and long-suffering as him. ---
**Author:** ![Katriona](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/katriona/32/113_2.png) [@Katriona](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Katriona)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2012, 9:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/downton-abbey-series-2-pbs-please-no-unaired-spoilers/609368/530 "2012-02-18T21:34:45Z")
> [@ThelmaLou](#): > > I’m also Violet. 🆒 Me too. It surprised me. I expected Sybil or Branson. ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2012, 10:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/downton-abbey-series-2-pbs-please-no-unaired-spoilers/609368/531 "2012-02-18T22:01:17Z")
I’m Sybil. ---
**Author:** ![Rhiannon8404](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rhiannon8404/32/17929_2.png) [@Rhiannon8404](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rhiannon8404)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2012, 11:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/downton-abbey-series-2-pbs-please-no-unaired-spoilers/609368/532 "2012-02-18T23:06:28Z")
I took the quiz three times, with different answers (using second and third choices) and I got Thomas every time. 😕 ---
**Author:** ![Sampiro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/2acd7d/32.png) [@Sampiro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sampiro)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2012, 11:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/downton-abbey-series-2-pbs-please-no-unaired-spoilers/609368/533 "2012-02-18T23:57:34Z")
[Paper dolls](http://www.vulture.com/2012/02/print-out-vultures-downton-abbey-paper-dolls.html) while you wait for the Christmas special. (My favorite of course is Violet for the changing expressions.) ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2012, 1:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/downton-abbey-series-2-pbs-please-no-unaired-spoilers/609368/534 "2012-02-19T01:24:19Z")
> [@Sampiro](#): > > [Paper dolls](http://www.vulture.com/2012/02/print-out-vultures-downton-abbey-paper-dolls.html) while you wait for the Christmas special. > > (My favorite of course is Violet for the changing expressions.) Heheh. Thanks - those are great. I like “Evil Facial Hair” for Thomas, too. ---
**Author:** ![Oslo\_Ostragoth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/a9a28c/32.png) [@Oslo\_Ostragoth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Oslo_Ostragoth)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2012, 2:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/downton-abbey-series-2-pbs-please-no-unaired-spoilers/609368/535 "2012-02-19T02:37:28Z")
> [@Sampiro](#): > > [Paper dolls](http://www.vulture.com/2012/02/print-out-vultures-downton-abbey-paper-dolls.html) while you wait for the Christmas special. > > (My favorite of course is Violet for the changing expressions.) Curse you! You stole my post! :mad: (Hoping that my printer can accept card stock.) ---
**Author:** ![Toucanna](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/3bc359/32.png) [@Toucanna](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Toucanna)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2012, 2:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/downton-abbey-series-2-pbs-please-no-unaired-spoilers/609368/536 "2012-02-19T02:42:52Z")
> [@Sampiro](#): > > Paper dolls while you wait for the Christmas special… From the link: _(Imagine all the things you can make Matthew and Mary do…)_ Blast and bother! I can’t get the demmed corset off her! ---
**Author:** ![Toucanna](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/3bc359/32.png) [@Toucanna](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Toucanna)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2012, 3:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/downton-abbey-series-2-pbs-please-no-unaired-spoilers/609368/537 "2012-02-19T03:52:57Z")
It took me a while to get the answers to these questions, but here they are. Episode numbers and time stamps are from the videos posted on PBS’s “Masterpiece” web page. > [@](#): > > **alphaboi867** > Remember Vera was suing [Bates] for divorce so he must’ve decided to do the “gentlemenly thing” and pretend to give her grounds for divorce so she could save face. So what grounds did he admit to to get the divorce? > [@](#): > > **stargazer** > They showed O’Brien overhearing one of Anna & Bates’ conversations, right when Bates was getting off the phone - I don’t remember what the conversation was about (a little help, anyone?)… Episode 2, ~27:37 SCENE: The Red Lion public house, in Kirby Moorside. Anna has tracked down Bates. Bates: I don’t know if I’ve dreaded this moment, or longed for it. Anna: Either way, it’s happened. (Cut to some other scenes) Episode 2, ~29:12 Bates: It _was_ me. I knew you used to go into the village on a Wednesday. I so longed for a glimpse of you. Anna: But why are you up here at all? And why didn’t you tell me? Bates: Because I want to get things settled first. You see, I’ve discovered that Vera has been unfaithful to me. I’ve got proof. Anna: We can’t criticise her for that. Bates: No, but it means I can divorce her. I’ve had to leave the house to prove that it _has_ broken the marriage. So I came up here to be nearer you. Anna: But what if she fights it? Bates: She can’t. For her to divorce me she needs something beyond adultery; cruelty, or suchlike. For a husband, adultery is enough. Anna: That’s not very fair to women. Bates: I don’t care about fairness, I care about you. The point is, I can get rid of her. If she goes quietly, I will give her money, and plenty of it. If not, she leaves empty-handed. Anna: And when will this be? Bates: I need to get her to accept it first. She’s made threats about selling stuff to the papers. Anna: What stuff? Bates: Don’t worry. They won’t offer what I will. (pause) You’ve changed your hair. Anna: I was trying out Lady Mary’s new curling iron. What do you think? Bates: I think I would love you however, whatever, whenever. Anna: We don’t have to wait, you know. If you want me to throw up everything and come with you, I will, gladly. Bates: I can’t marry you yet. Not legally, and I won’t break the law. Anna: It’s not against the law to take a mistress, Mr. Bates. (Anna takes Bates’ hand) Bates: I know you, Anna Smith, and I love you, and that is not the right path for you. It won’t be long now. (Anna nods her head) END SCENE Episode 3, ~32:30 SCENE: The Red Lion public house. Bates and Lord Grantham have their reunion. Nothing new about Bates long-sought-for divorce is discussed. Lord G asks Bates to return to work as his valet. Bates accepts. Episode 3, ~39:05 SCENE: Night, in the yard outside the servants’ hall. Bates: I’ve written to Vera, spelling out the case and how she cannot win it Then I have told her I will be generous if she will cooperate. Anna: But you’re ready to give her everything? Because I am. Bates: Whatever it takes. I want a clean break and not an open wound, if we can just be patient a litle while longer. (they embrace) We shouldn’t be outside, it’s cold. Anna: I’ll be patient. Can bear anything, except for you to go away again. Bates: No, that’s done. You’re stuck with me now. For good and proper. END SCENE Episode 4, ~11:16 SCENE: In Mrs. Hughes’ sitting room. Vera, after receiving O’Brien’s letter, has come to Downton to confront Bates. Vera: Excuse me, it was not settled! It was not settled by me that you’d come back here and take up with your floozie again. As far as I recall _that_ was never settled. Anna: How did you find out he was here? Vera: Wouldn’t you like to know? Bates: What does it matter? Just say what you want. Spit it out. Vera: You thought you’d got the better of me, but you were wrong. Bates: I never… Vera: I’m going to sell my story anyway, about Lady Mary, the Turkish gentleman, about Miss Smith here. Anna: It’s got nowt to do with me. Vera: Well, that’s not what I heard. Bates: You gave your word. I gave you the money and you gave me your word. Vera: Well, guess what? I was lying. Bates: If I hadn’t come back to Downton, back to Anna, would you have stuck to our agreement? Vera: Well, we’ll never know, now, will we? Bates: You’re angry because I’m happy. Vera: Maybe. But you won’t be happy long. (Vera leaves) END SCENE Episode 5, ~09:19 SCENE: The servants’ hall. Bates: We’re safe. we’ve got the decree _nisi_. I’m sure it’s all right. Anna: Except you’re not sure. O’Brien (from across the room): Not sure about what? Jane, to Thomas: What about you, sergeant? Have you started planning for after the war? Thomas: Not really. Not yet. Mrs. Patmore: I know what you should be doing. I know what we should all be doing. Thomas: Oh, yeah? What’s that? Mrs. Patmore: Hoarding. It may be wrong, but this rationing thing is starting to bite. Even with everyone’s books, I’d a battle getting enough sugar for this week. Thomas (sotto voce): Are you suggesting the black market, Mrs. Patmore? I’m shocked. Mrs. Patmore: Ohhh, somehow I doubt that very much. (Mrs. Patmore leaves) END SCENE Episode 5, ~14:49 SCENE: The servants’ hall. Carson: Mr. Bates, there’s a telephone call for you. It’s your lawyer. Anna, to Bates: Shall I come with you? (Bates and Anna leave the room) Episode 5, ~16:03 SCENE: a hall in Downton. Bates is speaking on the telephone. Bates: That’s ridiculous! No, of course I’m not saying it’s your fault. It’s mine, all mine. (pause) Bates: Yes. Thank you. Good-bye. (Hangs up phone. He sighs.) Bates, to Anna: She’s only gone and told the judge that I paid her to agree to a divorce. Anna: I suppose you did, didn’t you. Bates: Yes, I bloody well did. Anna: So, what does it mean? Bates: Because we withheld it from the court, it means the judge can withdraw the decree _nisi_. It means I’m not divorced, after all. And above all, it means I am a stupid, stupid, stupid man. Anna: This won’t change a thing. We are going to be together, whether she wants it or not. (As Anna speaks, the camera pans to the right, revealing O’Brien, eavesdropping on their conversation.) If we have to leave here, if we have to leave the country, we are going to be together. (O’Brien walks away) END SCENE Episode 5, ~35:34 SCENE: The servants’ hall. Carson and Branson discuss the political situation in Germany. Bates, to Anna: I’ll have to go up to London. Anna: But what will you say to her that you haven’t said already? Bates: I don’t know, but I know staying here won’t make any difference. O’Brien: You’re always going up and down to London these days, Mr. Bates. Bates: I have business in London. O’Brien: Oh, yes? Well, judging by your expession, your business doesn’t seem to be prospering. Anna: The trick of business is to mind your own. (Lord Grantham enters and announces the war is over.) Episode 5, 40:22 SCENE: The servants’ hall. Bates enters, having returned from London. He greets the staff. Anna and he walk out into the corridor. Anna: I never thought you’d be back tonight. How was it? Bates: Worse than you can possibly imagine. (Anna notices an abrasion on Bates’ left temple.) Anna: What’s…? END SCENE Note: Vera’s death was announced at the end of Episode 5. No more conversations about the divorce occur in the series. ---
**Author:** ![Misnomer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/misnomer/32/14897_2.png) [@Misnomer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Misnomer)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2012, 3:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/downton-abbey-series-2-pbs-please-no-unaired-spoilers/609368/538 "2012-02-19T15:51:46Z")
> [@Savannah](#): > > > [@Oslo\_Ostragoth](#): > > > > Available where? > > To be honest, we didn’t obtain it through channels not spoken of. My friend has the series (The Duchess of Duke Street) on DVD and so lent it to us. I don’t quite know where she obtained it. 🙂 Streaming episodes are available through Amazon Instant Video, and [the DVD box set](http://www.amazon.com/Duchess-Duke-Street-Complete-Collection/dp/B001ADXWYC/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1329666463&sr=8-2) is $62. ---
**Author:** ![Oslo\_Ostragoth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/a9a28c/32.png) [@Oslo\_Ostragoth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Oslo_Ostragoth)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2012, 4:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/downton-abbey-series-2-pbs-please-no-unaired-spoilers/609368/539 "2012-02-19T16:55:48Z")
> [@Misnomer](#): > > Streaming episodes are available through Amazon Instant Video, and [the DVD box set](http://www.amazon.com/Duchess-Duke-Street-Complete-Collection/dp/B001ADXWYC/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1329666463&sr=8-2) is $62. And it appears that YouTube has at least parts of it. ---
**Author:** ![StGermain](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/stgermain/32/2868_2.png) [@StGermain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/StGermain)\ **Post date:** [February 24, 2012, 2:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/downton-abbey-series-2-pbs-please-no-unaired-spoilers/609368/540 "2012-02-24T02:13:19Z")
For your enjoyment - [Downton Tabby](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=clJK3KBqdlE) StG [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/downton-abbey-series-2-pbs-please-no-unaired-spoilers/609368.md?page=26) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/downton-abbey-series-2-pbs-please-no-unaired-spoilers/609368.md?page=28)