# Downton Abbey, Series 2 (PBS) \[Please, no unaired spoilers\] **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [January 13, 2012, 4:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/downton-abbey-series-2-pbs-please-no-unaired-spoilers/609368 "2012-01-13T04:06:18Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Sampiro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/2acd7d/32.png) [@Sampiro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sampiro)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2012, 8:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/downton-abbey-series-2-pbs-please-no-unaired-spoilers/609368/41 "2012-01-19T20:29:49Z")
> [@Acsenray](#): > > Brilliant! > > Joanna Lumley: “You know me. I’m posher than you!” Love how she just jettisons the Scottish accent. > > The youngest, political daughter: “Hiiiiii …” > > Was Jennifer Saunders addressing Kim Cattrall as “Tim … Tim … Tim … Tim Cattrall!”?? > > Best of all Simon Callow as Julian Fellowes: “I don’t know how I do it!” – I haven’t seen the interviews. Is he really like that? “This is Thomas, the evil footman…” ---
**Author:** ![Motorgirl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e36b37/32.png) [@Motorgirl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Motorgirl)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2012, 8:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/downton-abbey-series-2-pbs-please-no-unaired-spoilers/609368/42 "2012-01-19T20:33:21Z")
Before I watch Uptown Downstairs Abbey links, can anyone reassure me they won’t spoil anything for Season 2? I’m watching on PBS, so only 2 episodes in so far. ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2012, 8:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/downton-abbey-series-2-pbs-please-no-unaired-spoilers/609368/43 "2012-01-19T20:39:00Z")
The parody is of Season 1. ---
**Author:** ![ZPG\_Zealot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/e47c2d/32.png) [@ZPG\_Zealot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ZPG_Zealot)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2012, 9:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/downton-abbey-series-2-pbs-please-no-unaired-spoilers/609368/44 "2012-01-19T21:22:36Z")
> [@MsJinx](#): > > This is not truly a spoiler for episode 2, but how many rooms are there in this place, which appears HUGE, that the library has to be divided? The family uses the dining room, library, drawing room, and there is a great hall, and maybe I’ve missed a ballroom? It looks like there could be whole wings that are unused. It wasn’t/isn’t uncommon for whole wings in big houses to be unused for a variety of reasons. Often those wings are in bad repair (I think Downton is suppose to date back to the dissolution of the monastic houses), need to be wired or rewired for gas or electricity, or closed off just to save money or time (cost of heating or time spent cleaning them). ---
**Author:** ![Bridget\_Burke](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7cd45c/32.png) [@Bridget\_Burke](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bridget_Burke)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2012, 9:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/downton-abbey-series-2-pbs-please-no-unaired-spoilers/609368/45 "2012-01-19T21:30:56Z")
The “real” Downton Abbey is [Highclere Castle](http://www.highclerecastle.co.uk/about-us/history-of-highclere-castle.html). There have been dwellings there for 1300 years but the main building is mostly a Victorian reconstruction. It actually became a hospital during WWI. If parts of Downton were in poor repair, we probably would know. I’ll bet Cora’s money went into modernization… ---
**Author:** ![Candyman74](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ad7895/32.png) [@Candyman74](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Candyman74)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2012, 11:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/downton-abbey-series-2-pbs-please-no-unaired-spoilers/609368/46 "2012-01-19T23:56:28Z")
> [@Toucanna](#): > > NOTE: This thread is about PBS’s version of _Downton Abbey_, Season (Series) 2, which started airing on January 8, 2012. Please do not discuss plot points in unaired episodes. Thanks for understanding! They’re all aired. Last year. I saw 'em on my televisual box. ---
**Author:** ![Sampiro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/2acd7d/32.png) [@Sampiro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sampiro)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2012, 12:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/downton-abbey-series-2-pbs-please-no-unaired-spoilers/609368/47 "2012-01-20T00:58:15Z")
> [@Bridget\_Burke](#): > > The “real” Downton Abbey is [Highclere Castle](http://www.highclerecastle.co.uk/about-us/history-of-highclere-castle.html). There have been dwellings there for 1300 years but the main building is mostly a Victorian reconstruction. It actually became a hospital during WWI. > > If parts of Downton were in poor repair, we probably would know. I’ll bet Cora’s money went into modernization… Highclere was featured on a recent show on cable- I think on the Travel Channel but I can’t swear to it. What I thought was amazing from the info on that was that its owner, the Earl of Carnarvon own about 6,000 acres surrounding the castle, much of it in developed real estate and rental housing, and their rents and revenues from it come to well over $1 million U.S. per _month_, but every penny is eaten by taxes and upkeep of the mansion. Their main source of income for their own personal use is from tours of the house, which is why the TV show was a godsend: in addition to the money they get from the production company it’s become one of the most popular tourist attractions in England. The Countess of Carnarvon did say she goes nuts when they’re filming because the production crew doesn’t always treat her antiques with delicacy or respect, basically moving up a 300 year old chair and writing table the same way they’d pick up a chair and writing table from Ikea. ---
**Author:** ![Motorgirl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e36b37/32.png) [@Motorgirl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Motorgirl)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2012, 1:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/downton-abbey-series-2-pbs-please-no-unaired-spoilers/609368/48 "2012-01-20T01:19:37Z")
> [@Acsenray](#): > > The parody is of Season 1. yay, thanks! ---
**Author:** ![PrettyVacant](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/49beb7/32.png) [@PrettyVacant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PrettyVacant)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2012, 1:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/downton-abbey-series-2-pbs-please-no-unaired-spoilers/609368/49 "2012-01-20T01:24:10Z")
I’m sure I read the production uses the same 4 rooms or so, plus a reception hall/ and stairs. Maybe it seems more from the variety of angles. ---
**Author:** ![Sampiro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/2acd7d/32.png) [@Sampiro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sampiro)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2012, 2:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/downton-abbey-series-2-pbs-please-no-unaired-spoilers/609368/50 "2012-01-20T02:11:57Z")
On the parody, does anybody recognize the housekeeper arriving as Mrs. Danvers (Joanna Lumley) leaves? I’m wondering if she’s a cameo. The website for BBC/PBS’s reality show [Manor House](http://www.pbs.org/manorhouse/) is extremely helpful in understanding the mechanics of running a great house; the [virtual tour](http://www.pbs.org/manorhouse/thehouse/tour/29.shtml), though not of Highclere/Downton, shows you the servant’s rooms (small but surprisingly well appointed) as well as the famous silver staircase at that house, Manderston. Among other things it tells what the duties of a second footman or housemaid (vs. a first footman or butler or housekeeper or scullery maid) are; the person who seems to have the worst job would be the [hallboy](http://www.pbs.org/manorhouse/thepeople/ken_duties.html): > [@](#): > > Morning Duties > You must rise at six o’clock and wash and dress. > > Your bed must be made and you must make your way over to the house and be ready to work within half an hour of waking. > > Your first task of the day is to clean the boots of the Upper Servants and Family members. You should collect them last thing the night before. The Butler, Chef and Housekeeper are all to rise at seven o’clock so their boots need to be returned to their rooms by this time. Family members will be rising from eight o’clock. > > You must then empty the chamber pots of all the male Servants, and wash them around with a soaked rag kept for that purpose. > > At a quarter-to eight you should lay the table in the Servants’ Hall for Breakfast. > > Breakfast is served in the Servants’ Hall at a quarter-past eight. This is all before 7:45 a.m., mind, and his daily duties go until 9:00 p.m.. Though he couldn’t complain too much as he was [paid £16](http://www.pbs.org/manorhouse/edwardianlife/servants_wages.html)(approximately $1462 in 21st century USD) per _year_ for the job (plus bed and board of course). I also loved this: > [@](#): > > It is very much the custom in the old houses that, when entering into new Service, Lower Servants adopt new names given to them by their Masters. You may follow this tradition and rename certain members of your Staff. Common names for matching Footmen are James and John. Emma is popular for Housemaids. I think we should bring this custom back. All housemaids should be Maria or Consuelo. Anybody who works on your lawn should be Bobby if pre-puberty, Bob if puberty to middle aged, Robert if middle aged to elderly, and Mr. Robert if you cannot fathom his age without carbon dating, unless he does your topiary in which case he should be addressed as Mr. Miyagi regardless of gender or ethnicity. Similarly, all waitresses in restaurants with average entree price under $9.99 should be Sugar, waitresses for places with entrees priced $10-$34.99 should be Connie, and in places where entrees start at $35 or higher should be Olivia. All waiters may be addressed as Kevin or Ricky. Street prostitutes should be Vickie, hotel escorts are Vivien, and mistresses should be Mrs. Danson-Bowler regardless of age or marital status. Likewise, personal assistants should be addressed as either Susie (by the employer others) or Mrs. Rutherford (by employer and others), regardless of age, marital status, or gender. ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2012, 2:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/downton-abbey-series-2-pbs-please-no-unaired-spoilers/609368/51 "2012-01-20T02:37:14Z")
> [@Candyman74](#): > > They’re all aired. Last year. I saw 'em on my televisual box. Not in the United States, but I’m guessing you know that. ---
**Author:** ![ThelmaLou](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thelmalou/32/390_2.png) [@ThelmaLou](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ThelmaLou)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2012, 3:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/downton-abbey-series-2-pbs-please-no-unaired-spoilers/609368/52 "2012-01-20T03:13:50Z")
> [@Sampiro](#): > > All housemaids should be Maria or Consuelo. Anybody who works on your lawn should be Bobby if pre-puberty, Bob if puberty to middle aged, Robert if middle aged to elderly, and Mr. Robert if you cannot fathom his age without carbon dating, unless he does your topiary in which case he should be addressed as Mr. Miyagi regardless of gender or ethnicity. > > Similarly, all waitresses in restaurants with average entree price under $9.99 should be Sugar, waitresses for places with entrees priced $10-$34.99 should be Connie, and in places where entrees start at $35 or higher should be Olivia. All waiters may be addressed as Kevin or Ricky. > > Street prostitutes should be Vickie, hotel escorts are Vivien, and mistresses should be Mrs. Danson-Bowler regardless of age or marital status. Likewise, personal assistants should be addressed as either Susie (by the employer others) or Mrs. Rutherford (by employer and others), regardless of age, marital status, or gender. _\_ ---
**Author:** ![Candyman74](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ad7895/32.png) [@Candyman74](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Candyman74)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2012, 3:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/downton-abbey-series-2-pbs-please-no-unaired-spoilers/609368/53 "2012-01-20T03:46:30Z")
> [@Acsenray](#): > > Not in the United States, but I’m guessing you know that. Not really. Though now you mention it, I do remember that being mentioned in another thread. ---
**Author:** ![PrettyVacant](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/49beb7/32.png) [@PrettyVacant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PrettyVacant)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2012, 9:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/downton-abbey-series-2-pbs-please-no-unaired-spoilers/609368/54 "2012-01-20T09:03:29Z")
Know of her, never seen her. > [@Sampiro](#): > > On the parody, does anybody recognize the housekeeper arriving as Mrs. Danvers (Joanna Lumley) leaves? I’m wondering if she’s a cameo. > **[Kim Woodburn](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kim_Woodburn)** > > Patricia Mary "Kim" Woodburn (née McKenzie; 25 March 1942 – 16 June 2025) was an English television personality, writer, and expert cleaner. Known as the "Queen of Clean", she came to prominence by co-presenting the Channel 4 series How Clean Is Your House? (2003–2009) and its Canadian version Kim's Rude Awakenings (2007–2009). Woodburn went on to appear on various reality television shows, including I'm a Celebrity...Get Me Out of Here! (2009) and Celebrity Big Brother (2017). > Patricia Mary ... > [@](#): > > In 2002, she auditioned for Channel 4, while earning £1000 a month as a cleaner. She was hired as a presenter of new show How Clean is Your House?, which began in February 2003, and eventually became the highest paid Channel 4 female presenter. At the age of 61, Woodburn was catapulted into stardom as the show became an instant success ---
**Author:** ![Mr\_Downtown](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/8e8cbc/32.png) [@Mr\_Downtown](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr_Downtown)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2012, 4:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/downton-abbey-series-2-pbs-please-no-unaired-spoilers/609368/55 "2012-01-23T04:04:21Z")
Why would Bates so willingly return to service? Surely he could make a better living working in the pub? And why do O’Brien and Thomas so dislike Bates in the first place? ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2012, 4:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/downton-abbey-series-2-pbs-please-no-unaired-spoilers/609368/56 "2012-01-23T04:34:51Z")
Why do you think he could make a better living in a pub, necessarily? He’s just an employee and surely Grantham can afford to pay him more than the landlord could. Being a valet to an Earl would be a pretty choice position for a working man. And there would’ve perks, like the best clothing and certain amenities afforded by living in a great house. Thomas first started hating Bates because he got the job of valet, which Thomas wanted. Also, he was the one who discovered Thomas’s pilfering. ---
**Author:** ![alphaboi867](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alphaboi867/32/3898_2.png) [@alphaboi867](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/alphaboi867)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2012, 4:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/downton-abbey-series-2-pbs-please-no-unaired-spoilers/609368/57 "2012-01-23T04:50:38Z")
Also Bates would be closer to Anna and able to see her on a daily basis (including eating with her). And regarding the pay; historically one of the major perks about working in a great house was that your room & board were taken care of. It might not seem like much today, but you got 3 proper meals a day, a roof over your head, a proper bed (to yourself, unless you were a junior maid), clean clothes, etc. ---
**Author:** ![Sampiro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/2acd7d/32.png) [@Sampiro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sampiro)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2012, 6:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/downton-abbey-series-2-pbs-please-no-unaired-spoilers/609368/58 "2012-01-23T06:04:19Z")
> [@alphaboi867](#): > > Also Bates would be closer to Anna and able to see her on a daily basis (including eating with her). And regarding the pay; historically one of the major perks about working in a great house was that your room & board were taken care of. It might not seem like much today, but you got 3 proper meals a day, a roof over your head, a proper bed (to yourself, unless you were a junior maid), clean , etc. Many great houses provided cottages or special quarters for married servants. It worked out well for both parties as it tied the servants closer to the manor. I didn’t realize until _Gosford Park_ (also by Julian Fellowes, of course) that it was customary for guests to tip the butler. Does anybody know if lower servants received tips as well? As much as it galls me to side with very rich people, I feel the Granthams are being far more than obliging towards the convalescent home and didn’t blame the Countess a whit for her “pray let not the door hit your ass as you depart” attitude towards Mrs. Crawley. And since the house is completely private property I would have said “No”, or if asked for elaboration “Hell no”, to Thomas being there in the first place but once there I’d have banned him from the servant’s quarters or any place else other than the convalescent wards themselves. On the PBS site for Manor House it states: > [@](#): > > In 1911, almost half of all illegitimate children were born to women in service > ‘Unemployable’ women would often end up at the workhouse, or as prostitutes > > [Manor House. You in 1905 | PBS](http://www.pbs.org/manorhouse/1905/f3.html) I hope they don’t plan to follow Ethel from the manor house to the whorehouse. ---
**Author:** ![Robot\_Arm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/robot_arm/32/18280_2.png) [@Robot\_Arm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Robot_Arm)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2012, 7:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/downton-abbey-series-2-pbs-please-no-unaired-spoilers/609368/59 "2012-01-23T07:26:09Z")
I happened to catch a few minutes of this the other evening. I thought I recognized one of the actors. I said to myself "I’d swear I’ve seen that guy before. Deja vu."Yep, he played Deja Vu in _Top Secret_. ---
**Author:** ![AK84](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/85e7bf/32.png) [@AK84](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AK84)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2012, 7:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/downton-abbey-series-2-pbs-please-no-unaired-spoilers/609368/60 "2012-01-23T07:33:26Z")
Is it being aired by episode in the US or is it like last time, with two episodes being aired everytime? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/downton-abbey-series-2-pbs-please-no-unaired-spoilers/609368.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/downton-abbey-series-2-pbs-please-no-unaired-spoilers/609368.md?page=4)