# Downton Abbey, Series 2 (PBS) \[Please, no unaired spoilers\] **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [January 13, 2012, 4:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/downton-abbey-series-2-pbs-please-no-unaired-spoilers/609368 "2012-01-13T04:06:18Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 9
**Author:** ![Jesus\_Christ\_s\_Child\_Bride](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/e480ec/32.png) [@Jesus\_Christ\_s\_Child\_Bride](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jesus_Christ_s_Child_Bride)\ **Post date:** [January 31, 2012, 3:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/downton-abbey-series-2-pbs-please-no-unaired-spoilers/609368/161 "2012-01-31T03:44:18Z")
> [@alphaboi867](#): > > Not in 1918 he can’t. Peers weren’t allowed to disclaim their titles until [1963](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peerage_Act). Matthew is the next Earl of Grantham wether he likes or not. He also can’t stop himself from inheiriting Downton Abbey because the entail. I think entail was abolished sometime in the 1920s. He could commit treason. That would strip him of any right to the title. ---
**Author:** ![Sampiro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/2acd7d/32.png) [@Sampiro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sampiro)\ **Post date:** [January 31, 2012, 4:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/downton-abbey-series-2-pbs-please-no-unaired-spoilers/609368/162 "2012-01-31T04:29:55Z")
> [@Clockwork\_Jackal](#): > > I’ve only been watching this show for a few weeks now. I saw the first season on Netflix. But I will say this: if I was Anna I’d have been all over Bates like white on rice. Mrrrrrraow baby. I find the actor extremely attractive despite the age and portliness. But hey, YMMV. > [@Eyebrows\_0f\_Doom](#): > > Thirding this. I usually go for skinny guys but there’s something about Bates that makes him really attractive. > > And it seems that’s quite a popular view: [“The surprise sex symbol of Downton.”](http://www.thisislondon.co.uk/lifestyle/article-23894018-the-unlikely-cult-of-mr-bates.do) He’s not a bad looking guy, but I like Hugh Bonneville (Lord Robert) myself. Very silver-foxy. (Trivia: the two actors were born less than a month apart in 1963.) ---
**Author:** ![Toucanna](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/3bc359/32.png) [@Toucanna](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Toucanna)\ **Post date:** [January 31, 2012, 4:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/downton-abbey-series-2-pbs-please-no-unaired-spoilers/609368/163 "2012-01-31T04:37:45Z")
> [@Acsenray](#): > > So long as it is _conceivable_… But being not conceivable is the problem. 😉 > [@alphaboi867](#): > > Not in 1918 he can’t…I think entail was abolished sometime in the 1920s. Well, if the plot jumps ahead to 1920 and Robert has died and Matthew is still alive, I guess we’ll see. > [@Lamia](#): > > Didn’t Lord Grantham say a couple of episodes back that he didn’t even know who was next in line after Matthew? {snip} Back when Series/Season 1 aired in the USA, I did a back-of-the-envelope genealogy of the Crawleys. Of course I can’t find that envelope now, but from what I remember, yeah, they’ll have to look a long way back in the Crawley pedigree to find a new heir presumptive. Would be cool if it was some soccer hooligan or Welsh tradesman. ([_Up Downtown_](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Up_the_Front), anyone?) But come 1920, when entails can be broken, things might change. > [@Jesus\_Christ\_s\_Child\_Bride](#): > > Matthew is heir presumptive, not heir apparent. Ta! Ya know, I waffled on the two terms and, because I’m lazy, instead of looking up the definitions I flipped a coin. It figures I’d get the wrong word. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Toucanna](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/3bc359/32.png) [@Toucanna](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Toucanna)\ **Post date:** [January 31, 2012, 4:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/downton-abbey-series-2-pbs-please-no-unaired-spoilers/609368/164 "2012-01-31T04:55:49Z")
Forgot to mention: Iain Glenn, who plays “Sir Richard Carlisle”, played “Hamlet” in _Rosencrantz & Guildenstern are Dead_ (1990) and “Bishop Octavian” in two _Doctor Who_ episodes, _The Time of Angels_ and _Flesh and Stone_ (2010). And, “Ser Joah Mormont” in _Game of Thrones_ (2011-2012) ---
**Author:** ![alphaboi867](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alphaboi867/32/3898_2.png) [@alphaboi867](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/alphaboi867)\ **Post date:** [January 31, 2012, 5:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/downton-abbey-series-2-pbs-please-no-unaired-spoilers/609368/165 "2012-01-31T05:01:00Z")
> [@Bridget\_Burke](#): > > After Patrick’s death, it was amusing just how eager both Cora & Violet were to break the entail. If it would impoverish the next Lord Grantham–so what? Were they really so careless of that nobility thing as long as Cora & her girls had the big bucks?.. Cora’s American; she really doesn’t care about the title (at least not as much as Lord Grantham) or wether the next Earl of Grantham has a proper estate or not. She does think (like most Americans, then & now) that her dowry going to a stranger rather than her own daughters is absurd. It’s actually kinda strange that her father even allowed her to sign a marriage settlement that didn’t take this scenario into account in the first place. Violet, yes one would expect her to be more concerned, but her reaction is perfectly believable. After all the next heir is a common, middle-class, lawyer and a total stranger to her. Remember that Lord Grantham and his cousin (Patrick’s father) grew up together, and the family had been planning for Patrick to marry Lady Mary (or even Lady Edith) for years. And it’s entirely possible that she and Lord Grantham had sons other than Robert; they all could’ve died by the time Robert married Cora. ---
**Author:** ![Sampiro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/2acd7d/32.png) [@Sampiro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sampiro)\ **Post date:** [January 31, 2012, 11:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/downton-abbey-series-2-pbs-please-no-unaired-spoilers/609368/166 "2012-01-31T23:14:08Z")
[Shirley MacLaine joins the cast of Downton Abbey](http://www.pbs.org/about/news/archive/2012/shirley-maclaine-downton-abbey/?utm_source=Facebook&utm_medium=fanpage&utm_campaign=pbs) (as Cora’s mother) for next season. She’s a great actress when she feels like it, though she sometimes just dusts off Aurora Greenway footage and emails it in, so, it could go either way. ---
**Author:** ![Eyebrows\_0f\_Doom](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eyebrows_0f_doom/32/3119_2.png) [@Eyebrows\_0f\_Doom](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eyebrows_0f_Doom)\ **Post date:** [January 31, 2012, 11:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/downton-abbey-series-2-pbs-please-no-unaired-spoilers/609368/167 "2012-01-31T23:38:54Z")
> [@Toucanna](#): > > Forgot to mention: Iain Glenn, who plays “Sir Richard Carlisle”, … And, “Ser Jorah Mormont” in _Game of Thrones_ (2011-2012) Ah! Thank you! It has been bugging me why I knew him! ---
**Author:** ![Eve](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/9e8a1a/32.png) [@Eve](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eve)\ **Post date:** [January 31, 2012, 11:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/downton-abbey-series-2-pbs-please-no-unaired-spoilers/609368/168 "2012-01-31T23:48:36Z")
> [@Sampiro](#): > > [Shirley MacLaine joins the cast of Downton Abbey](http://www.pbs.org/about/news/archive/2012/shirley-maclaine-downton-abbey/?utm_source=Facebook&utm_medium=fanpage&utm_campaign=pbs) (as Cora’s mother) for next season. Why don’t they go whole-hog and get Mary Tyler Moore and Dick Van Dyke as Cora’s parents? ---
**Author:** ![PrettyVacant](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/49beb7/32.png) [@PrettyVacant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PrettyVacant)\ **Post date:** [February 1, 2012, 12:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/downton-abbey-series-2-pbs-please-no-unaired-spoilers/609368/169 "2012-02-01T00:15:42Z")
It’ll be nice for the Countess of Grantham to have someone to knock back the Sherry with. ---
**Author:** ![Sampiro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/2acd7d/32.png) [@Sampiro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sampiro)\ **Post date:** [February 1, 2012, 1:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/downton-abbey-series-2-pbs-please-no-unaired-spoilers/609368/170 "2012-02-01T01:14:17Z")
> [@Eve](#): > > Why don’t they go whole-hog and get Mary Tyler Moore and Dick Van Dyke as Cora’s parents? Dick insisted on doing his “impeccable Cockney accent, guvnah!” and for a rich 19th century American it didn’t work anymore than Mary saying “Oh robbbber baron!” And at least it’s not Betty White for a change. ---
**Author:** ![Sampiro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/2acd7d/32.png) [@Sampiro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sampiro)\ **Post date:** [February 1, 2012, 1:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/downton-abbey-series-2-pbs-please-no-unaired-spoilers/609368/171 "2012-02-01T01:41:01Z")
Unconfirmed, but my sources report the other big change to Downton next season is a new theme song by Reba McEntire. I have some of the lyrics: “It’s rich English folk livin in a big old castle and a single mama who don’t want no hassle Upstairs they’re sippin’ tea most every night She works her fingers to the bone but she’s still got fight!” It’s unclear who the “single mama” or the “She” is, but rumor is it’s a new maid from America played by Jamie Pressly who’s walked out on an abusive marriage and crossed the ocean to find work. The new season will also feature a live audience and laugh track and the title episode will be called MY NAME IS EARL OF GRANTHAM. ---
**Author:** ![Annie](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/858c86/32.png) [@Annie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Annie)\ **Post date:** [February 1, 2012, 5:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/downton-abbey-series-2-pbs-please-no-unaired-spoilers/609368/172 "2012-02-01T05:17:03Z")
How long until Robert and the new maid get it on? ---
**Author:** ![Clockwork\_Jackal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/b5e925/32.png) [@Clockwork\_Jackal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Clockwork_Jackal)\ **Post date:** [February 1, 2012, 6:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/downton-abbey-series-2-pbs-please-no-unaired-spoilers/609368/173 "2012-02-01T06:00:08Z")
What’s the England in 1919 equivalent of “Bow chicka wow wow?” ---
**Author:** ![Sampiro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/2acd7d/32.png) [@Sampiro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sampiro)\ **Post date:** [February 1, 2012, 7:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/downton-abbey-series-2-pbs-please-no-unaired-spoilers/609368/174 "2012-02-01T07:29:03Z")
> [@Clockwork\_Jackal](#): > > What’s the England in 1919 equivalent of “Bow chicka wow wow?” A low key unsmiling “Lovely”. ---
**Author:** ![Toucanna](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/3bc359/32.png) [@Toucanna](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Toucanna)\ **Post date:** [February 2, 2012, 6:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/downton-abbey-series-2-pbs-please-no-unaired-spoilers/609368/175 "2012-02-02T06:59:23Z")
> [@Sampiro](#): > > Shirley MacLaine joins the cast of Downton Abbey (as Cora’s mother) for next season. {snip} From the linked article: _Ms. MacLaine will play a new character, Martha Levinson, the mother of Lady Grantham (Elizabeth McGovern)._ “_Levinson?!?_” Was Cora’s maiden name “Levinson”? Or did Martha divorce/survive Cora’s dad and then marry a Mr. Levinson? If Cora was born “Levinson”, is she [Jewish](http://wiki.name.com/en/Levinson)? Or perhaps, descended from Jews who converted to a Protestant faith? If Cora’s ethnic heritage is Jewish…wowee wow wow wow! ---
**Author:** ![Sampiro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/2acd7d/32.png) [@Sampiro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sampiro)\ **Post date:** [February 2, 2012, 7:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/downton-abbey-series-2-pbs-please-no-unaired-spoilers/609368/176 "2012-02-02T07:17:45Z")
I know they were using X-Rays in France during WW1 (one model was called “Le Petite Curie”, or just ‘The Marie’ in English), but I wonder if somebody like William would have been examined with one. Matthew’s mother would certainly know of them and probably want one used to examine his spinal injury; it’d be an interesting twist if it turned out he wasn’t rendered impotent by the injury but was left sterile due to radiation. ---
**Author:** ![Sampiro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/2acd7d/32.png) [@Sampiro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sampiro)\ **Post date:** [February 2, 2012, 7:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/downton-abbey-series-2-pbs-please-no-unaired-spoilers/609368/177 "2012-02-02T07:31:17Z")
> [@Toucanna](#): > > From the linked article: _Ms. MacLaine will play a new character, Martha Levinson, the mother of Lady Grantham (Elizabeth McGovern)._ > > “_Levinson?!?_” Was Cora’s maiden name “Levinson”? Or did Martha divorce/survive Cora’s dad and then marry a Mr. Levinson? If Cora was born “Levinson”, is she [Jewish](http://wiki.name.com/en/Levinson)? Or perhaps, descended from Jews who converted to a Protestant faith? If Cora’s ethnic heritage is Jewish…wowee wow wow wow! I’ve wondered if she’s (very loosely) based on [Alva Vanderbilt](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alva_Belmont). I mentioned her earlier in this thread: penniless Alabama belle who married a Vanderbilt and forced her daughter to marry the Duke of Marlboro. The reasons I wondered: -They’re roughly the same generation (Alva was born in 1853, Cora’s mother would probably be slightly older but wouldn’t have to be much older) -The “rich American who arranged daughter’s marriage for a title” bit -After Alva forced her daughter to marry Marlboro she divorced her husband and married O.H.P. Belmont, who was Jewish by ancestry (though not by religion) -By the time of WW1, Alva Vanderbilt was a zealous suffragette and general women’s rights advocate It’s highly doubtful a British Earl would consider a marriage to an American Jewish heiress for himself or his heir; he might consider one or the other but both would be highly unlikely as it would have been a MAJOR departure from all the norms of his world in late Victorian England. Remarriage, however, would explain Cora’s mother having a Jewish surname. In addition, this being Shirley MacLaine, you can be pretty well sure that Cora’s mother isn’t going to be Miss Manners, but at the same time she at least once cared enough about respectability she wanted to wed her nouveau rich robber baron lineage to genuine aristocracy, so an Alva character would seem a nice fit. (Cora is luckier that Consuelo Vanderbilt in that she loves Robert; Consuelo hated her husband.) ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2012, 5:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/downton-abbey-series-2-pbs-please-no-unaired-spoilers/609368/178 "2012-02-04T05:00:01Z")
I’m enjoying Season 2 very much, and think I just might be falling in lust with the youngest Crawley daughter. But can’t she see the Irish chauffeur is all wrong for her?!?!?!?!? > [@Sampiro](#): > > …I think we should bring this custom back. > > …Street prostitutes should be Vickie, hotel escorts are Vivien, and mistresses should be Mrs. Danson-Bowler regardless of age or marital status. Likewise, personal assistants should be addressed as either Susie (by the employer others) or Mrs. Rutherford (by employer and others), regardless of age, marital status, or gender. LOL. Thank you for this! > [@Robot\_Arm](#): > > I happened to catch a few minutes of this the other evening. I thought I recognized one of the actors. I said to myself "I’d swear I’ve seen that guy before. Deja vu."Yep, he played Deja Vu in _Top Secret_. Jim Carter also played Goering to Ian McKellen’s Hitler in the chilling British Fascist-era movie version of _Richard III_. > [@Sampiro](#): > > I wonder how much the WW1 widow’s pensions were… ISTR from Jeffrey Archer’s excellent British political novel _First Among Equals_, in which it was a minor plot point, that they were none too generous, and thus became something of a national disgrace/political football in later years. > [@Toucanna](#): > > Forgot to mention: Iain Glenn, who plays “Sir Richard Carlisle”, played “Hamlet” in _Rosencrantz & Guildenstern are Dead_ (1990) and “Bishop Octavian” in two _Doctor Who_ episodes, _The Time of Angels_ and _Flesh and Stone_ (2010). And, “Ser Jo[r]ah Mormont” in _Game of Thrones_ (2011-2012) He also played a Moriarty-like evil genius in an episode of _Law & Order UK_ not long ago. Very talented guy. > [@Sampiro](#): > > I’ve wondered if she’s (very loosely) based on [Alva Vanderbilt](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alva_Belmont). I mentioned her earlier in this thread: penniless Alabama belle who married a Vanderbilt and forced her daughter to marry the Duke of Marlboro… Nitpick: Marlborough. > **[Duke of Marlborough (title)](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Duke_of_Marlborough_(title))** > > Duke of Marlborough (pronounced /ˈmɔːrlbrə/) is a title in the Peerage of England. It was created by Queen Anne in 1702 for John Churchill, 1st Earl of Marlborough (1650–1722), the noted military leader. The queen and the nation also gave him what became Blenheim Palace, unique as a national monument and family home. In historical texts, unqualified use of the title typically refers to the 1st Duke. The name of the dukedom refers to Marlborough in Wiltshire. > The earldom of Marlborough was held... I’d heard there was a _Downton Abbey_ Christmas special. Is that right? If so, will it air at the end of the current season, or has it already aired in the U.S.? ---
**Author:** ![Toucanna](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/3bc359/32.png) [@Toucanna](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Toucanna)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2012, 7:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/downton-abbey-series-2-pbs-please-no-unaired-spoilers/609368/179 "2012-02-04T19:34:48Z")
> [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](#): > > {SNIP} I’d heard there was a _Downton Abbey_ Christmas special. Is that right? If so, will it air at the end of the current season, or has it already aired in the U.S.? Not yet aired in the USA. Here’s a link to [IMDB.com](http://IMDB.com)’s [plot synopsis](http://www.imdb.com/title/tt2013429/). NOTE: May contain spoilers. (It probably contains spoilers, I haven’t read it and won’t until I’ve seen the last episode of Series/Season 2.) ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2012, 4:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/downton-abbey-series-2-pbs-please-no-unaired-spoilers/609368/180 "2012-02-05T04:11:31Z")
> [@Toucanna](#): > > Not yet aired in the USA. Here’s a link to [IMDB.com](http://IMDB.com)’s [plot synopsis](http://www.imdb.com/title/tt2013429/). NOTE: May contain spoilers. (It probably contains spoilers, I haven’t read it and won’t until I’ve seen the last episode of Series/Season 2.) OK, thanks. I’ll keep an eye out for it. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/downton-abbey-series-2-pbs-please-no-unaired-spoilers/609368.md?page=8) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/downton-abbey-series-2-pbs-please-no-unaired-spoilers/609368.md?page=10)