# Downton Abbey -- Series Three (open spoilers) **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [July 22, 2012, 10:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/downton-abbey-series-three-open-spoilers/629082 "2012-07-22T22:47:44Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![GuanoLad](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guanolad/32/42_2.png) [@GuanoLad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GuanoLad)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2012, 4:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/downton-abbey-series-three-open-spoilers/629082/41 "2012-10-16T04:34:28Z")
> [@toast\_pakora](#): > > Wait a minute. There is a cure for eclampsia: childbirth, ie removal of the placenta. That’s why they do caesarians. That’s what Dr Clarkson was recommending, early enough to save her. ---
**Author:** ![alphaboi867](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alphaboi867/32/3898_2.png) [@alphaboi867](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/alphaboi867)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2012, 5:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/downton-abbey-series-three-open-spoilers/629082/42 "2012-10-16T05:25:50Z")
> [@Bridget\_Burke](#): > > Why would Mary & Matthew want to raise the girl–even if Branson conveniently kicks off? To pass on the title, Matthew needs a male heir–legitimate & not adopted… Technically speaking it boy doesn’t have to be Matthew’s. Legally any children Mary gives birth to are his legitimate offspring. No DNA tests in the '20s. If Fellows is going the male infertility route (& they haven’t been married long enough for that to be a major concern yet) there solutions avaible to them. Artificial insemination did exist back then. It was hugely experimental, veiled in secrecy, and probally would involve alot of money & international travel, but it’s an option. There’s also the traditional method for producing an heir when the husband is shooting blanks. > [@toast\_pakora](#): > > …Oh well. On to other things. Lady Edith writes \*one \*Letter to the Editor and she gets offered a newspaper column… He’s an ass, but I have to agree with Lord Grantham. Edith would not have gotten the offer if she wasn’t an earl’s daughter. I was not expecting Syblil to be the one to kick the bucket, but it does things alot juicier regarding Tom & the baby. True society & the courts gave deference to the father’s rights (especially when the mother was dead), but they gave even more deference to money. The Granthams’ marriage is in ruins now. I mean Cora isn’t going to divorce him, but there in for a long period of living seperate lives in the same house (as was customary among their class). O’Brien is such a transparent bitch. It’s pretty obvious that she’s pushing Jimmy into Thomas’s arms in hopes that either; Thomas will make a move causing Jimmy to report him to Carson, or Jimmy will be receptive and she’ll have a change to catch them in the act & be rid of them both. ---
**Author:** ![toast\_pakora](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/3ec8ea/32.png) [@toast\_pakora](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/toast_pakora)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2012, 1:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/downton-abbey-series-three-open-spoilers/629082/43 "2012-10-16T13:41:10Z")
> [@](#): > > That’s what Dr Clarkson was recommending, early enough to save her. What I meant was, once she’d delivered the baby, the threat of eclampsia is gone. Since they’d all gone to bed, it was several hours _later_ that she started having seizures. That’s not right, according to Dr Wiki. > [@](#): > > O’Brien is such a transparent bitch. Get rid of Thomas _and_ promote her nephew. Gotta love her. ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2012, 2:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/downton-abbey-series-three-open-spoilers/629082/44 "2012-10-17T14:26:52Z")
For the discriminating _Downton Abbey_ shopper: “Free John Bates” shirts: [http://www.signals.com/cgi-bin/hazel.cgi?action=DETAIL&ITEM=HN3532](http://www.signals.com/cgi-bin/hazel.cgi?action=DETAIL&ITEM=HN3532) Proclaim “I’m an Edith” (or Sybil, or Mary): [http://www.signals.com/cgi-bin/hazel.cgi?action=DETAIL&ITEM=HN4102](http://www.signals.com/cgi-bin/hazel.cgi?action=DETAIL&ITEM=HN4102) Hard to go wrong with the Dowager Countess: [http://www.signals.com/cgi-bin/hazel.cgi?action=DETAIL&ITEM=HN3522](http://www.signals.com/cgi-bin/hazel.cgi?action=DETAIL&ITEM=HN3522) Good advice at any time: [http://www.signals.com/cgi-bin/hazel.cgi?action=DETAIL&ITEM=HN3542](http://www.signals.com/cgi-bin/hazel.cgi?action=DETAIL&ITEM=HN3542) ---
**Author:** ![toast\_pakora](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/3ec8ea/32.png) [@toast\_pakora](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/toast_pakora)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2012, 3:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/downton-abbey-series-three-open-spoilers/629082/45 "2012-10-23T03:41:41Z")
Hey I thought that was a good episode. Not one big crisis but a lot of stuff happening in small scenes. Loved the showdown in Isobel’s dining room. Now \*next \*week, we get the Return of Bates. ---
**Author:** ![alphaboi867](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alphaboi867/32/3898_2.png) [@alphaboi867](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/alphaboi867)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2012, 6:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/downton-abbey-series-three-open-spoilers/629082/46 "2012-10-23T06:57:35Z")
I’m glad Daisy has a realistic route out of service, and I think that little exchange with Carson helped make up her mind. He & Robert are really very similiar people. Right down to have the exact same reaction to Ethel, and responding by trying to issue commands to people they don’t really have any authority over. I really hope Matthew calls him out how be mismanaged Cora’s fortune, that he (Matthew) saved Downton, and Robert was the one who insisted on giving Matthew an equal share. Also I’m disappointed how clear it’s getting that Jimmy is straight. Thomas might be a cunning, manipulative bastard (though he’s still a saint compared to O’Brien), but it’d be nice to seem at least get one night of happiness. Especially given that Bates is coming back. ---
**Author:** ![HazelNutCoffee](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/ac91a4/32.png) [@HazelNutCoffee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HazelNutCoffee)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2012, 11:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/downton-abbey-series-three-open-spoilers/629082/47 "2012-10-24T11:21:55Z")
Thomas is no saint compared to O’Brien. I would say they’re pretty evenly matched, although in my mind O’Brien has at least shown a somewhat more human side. I can’t really remember Thomas showing any kind of remorse or empathy about anything or anyone. I loved the scene in Isobel’s dining room as well. Robert needs to be slapped in the face with a wet trout. ---
**Author:** ![alphaboi867](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alphaboi867/32/3898_2.png) [@alphaboi867](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/alphaboi867)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2012, 6:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/downton-abbey-series-three-open-spoilers/629082/48 "2012-10-24T18:30:03Z")
> [@HazelNutCoffee](#): > > Thomas is no saint compared to O’Brien… Remind me, how many miscarriages has Thomas caused? ---
**Author:** ![Dr.Righteous](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/bbe5ce/32.png) [@Dr.Righteous](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr.Righteous)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2012, 7:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/downton-abbey-series-three-open-spoilers/629082/49 "2012-10-24T19:52:07Z")
> [@HazelNutCoffee](#): > > I can’t really remember Thomas showing any kind of remorse or empathy about anything or anyone. He did seem truly upset at Sybil’s passing. First time for everything. ---
**Author:** ![alphaboi867](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alphaboi867/32/3898_2.png) [@alphaboi867](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/alphaboi867)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2012, 8:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/downton-abbey-series-three-open-spoilers/629082/50 "2012-10-24T20:23:58Z")
> [@Dr.Righteous](#): > > He did seem truly upset at Sybil’s passing. First time for everything. Don’t forget the blind officer in series 2. Thomas was showing so much emontional vulnerability with him he almost came out before he realized what he was saying. ---
**Author:** ![Eyebrows\_0f\_Doom](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eyebrows_0f_doom/32/3119_2.png) [@Eyebrows\_0f\_Doom](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eyebrows_0f_Doom)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2012, 9:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/downton-abbey-series-three-open-spoilers/629082/51 "2012-10-24T21:06:22Z")
Thomas was genuinely upset at Sybil’s death, which surprised me. I think that was the first time he actually showed he had feelings towards another person that weren’t solely based on him getting something. He’s still a dick though, even more so with him now creeping on the new footman James. He has to get his comeuppance at \*some \*point. O’Brien has at least shown remorse for the way she has acted in the past. I like that she is against Thomas this season. Glad that Bates is finally coming back to the house. Fellowes really dropped the ball with that storyline. ---
**Author:** ![TreacherousCretin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/treacherouscretin/32/476_2.png) [@TreacherousCretin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TreacherousCretin)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2012, 5:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/downton-abbey-series-three-open-spoilers/629082/52 "2012-10-25T05:46:10Z")
I’m requesting a SPOILER. I’m one of those people whose enjoyment is not compromised by advance knowledge of story details. How did Bates get out of prison? Has his wife’s murderer been ID’d? ---
**Author:** ![Eyebrows\_0f\_Doom](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eyebrows_0f_doom/32/3119_2.png) [@Eyebrows\_0f\_Doom](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eyebrows_0f_Doom)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2012, 5:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/downton-abbey-series-three-open-spoilers/629082/53 "2012-10-25T05:57:05Z")
> [@TreacherousCretin](#): > > I’m requesting a SPOILER. I’m one of those people whose enjoyment is not compromised by advance knowledge of story details. > > How did Bates get out of prison? Has his wife’s murderer been ID’d? Unless they pull some 11th hour twist to it, Vera committed suicide. Apparently by eating a pie she poisoned with arsenic or something. :rolleyes: Which was exactly what it seemed like from the beginning so I’m a bit disappointed nothing else was made of it. I thought maybe they’d have Sir Richard or O’Brien be involved, but nope. Suicide by pie. Now why that evidence did not come up during the trial, I don’t know. **shakes fist** Murray!! Even though the prison storyline has been going on for so long, the resolution felt very rushed. ---
**Author:** ![GuanoLad](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guanolad/32/42_2.png) [@GuanoLad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GuanoLad)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2012, 6:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/downton-abbey-series-three-open-spoilers/629082/54 "2012-10-25T06:09:41Z")
I think I’m beginning to tire of this show. It’s a wonderfully lavish, beautifully acted, poorly plotted soap opera. ---
**Author:** ![Dr.Righteous](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/bbe5ce/32.png) [@Dr.Righteous](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr.Righteous)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2012, 4:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/downton-abbey-series-three-open-spoilers/629082/55 "2012-10-25T16:22:41Z")
> [@Eyebrows\_0f\_Doom](#): > > Unless they pull some 11th hour twist to it, Vera committed suicide. Apparently by eating a pie she poisoned with arsenic or something. :rolleyes: Which was exactly what it seemed like from the beginning so I’m a bit disappointed nothing else was made of it. I thought maybe they’d have Sir Richard or O’Brien be involved, but nope. Suicide by pie. > > Now why that evidence did not come up during the trial, I don’t know. **shakes fist** Murray!! Even though the prison storyline has been going on for so long, the resolution felt very rushed. To elaborate on this: A neighbor had said in her original testimony that she remembered Vera had pie crust under her fingernails when she spoke to her and Vera told her she feared for her life - that’s why when Vera died that same day she just knew it was Bates who had done it. Anna reconstructed the events of the afternoon and realized that Bates saw her BEFORE she had made the pie - and there was proof of that since he was on a train back to Downton at that time - so the poison was in a pie that had not yet even been made and therefore he could not have been the one to put it there. She told Lord Grantham, who had his lawyer come out and talk to her, and then that lawyer went to visit the neighbor and got the real story out of her (eventually). Lawyer presented said proof to the courts, and voila - Bates is free. Of course we all can imagine ways someone could get poison into food even days after the poisoner has left the place, but that’s the way it came down. Good thing they didn’t have CSI back then. ---
**Author:** ![TreacherousCretin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/treacherouscretin/32/476_2.png) [@TreacherousCretin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TreacherousCretin)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2012, 4:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/downton-abbey-series-three-open-spoilers/629082/56 "2012-10-25T16:52:46Z")
Thanks. Agreed, it’s a bit of a letdown for such a long subplot. ---
**Author:** ![running\_piglet\_cheese](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/22d042/32.png) [@running\_piglet\_cheese](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/running_piglet_cheese)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2012, 9:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/downton-abbey-series-three-open-spoilers/629082/57 "2012-10-25T21:42:51Z")
The women on the show seem to be much more with the changing times than the men. Carson and Lord Mucky Muck made such a big deal about Edith. You would have thought she had leprosy. O’Brien is setting up Thomas so underhandedly. You DO NOT want to get on her wrong side. She has not changed one iota IMO. She had some remorse after the miscarriage, but other than that she is just plain evil. Do you think Mary will ever back her husband over her father? I do think that Carson and dear old Dad will never accept the changes that are coming and that truly is sad. ---
**Author:** ![alphaboi867](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alphaboi867/32/3898_2.png) [@alphaboi867](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/alphaboi867)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2012, 2:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/downton-abbey-series-three-open-spoilers/629082/58 "2012-10-26T02:54:16Z")
> [@running\_piglet\_cheese](#): > > …Do you think Mary will ever back her husband over her father? I do think that Carson and dear old Dad will never accept the changes that are coming and that truly is sad. Maybe. Her daddy’s little girl act is getting really old now that she’s a married woman in her 30s. Of course it doesn’t help that she’s still living in her childhood bedroom. She didn’t side with him over the christening, but that’s only because Sybil told her she wanted the baby to be Roman Catholic like Tom. Also, I’m hoping the Pamuk thing comes up again. I can believe Sir Richard choosing not to go public, if for no other reason than it’d make him look bad too, but he’s not just going to let it go either. There’s some kind of discrete revenge plan brewing. > [@Dr.Righteous](#): > > …She told Lord Grantham, who had his lawyer come out and talk to her, and then that lawyer went to visit the neighbor and got the real story out of her (eventually). Lawyer presented said proof to the courts, and voila - Bates is free… How would that process have worked exactly? Does it take an actual appeal with a hearing, or does Murry just petion the Home Secretary? Does Bates’s actual conviction get quashed, or does he get a pardon? ---
**Author:** ![alphaboi867](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alphaboi867/32/3898_2.png) [@alphaboi867](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/alphaboi867)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2012, 5:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/downton-abbey-series-three-open-spoilers/629082/59 "2012-10-31T05:15:02Z")
O’Brien is a frigid dispicable cunt. :mad: Is she ever going to get what’s coming to her? Thomas doesn’t deserve this. He just doesn’t. Carson’s reaction was interesting. He’s clearly revolted, but his primary concern is of course to handle the matter with as little risk of scandal as possible. It doesn’t look like this is the first time he’s faced this dilema either. Plus he did work in the theatre. Meanwhile once again Violet’s realism won out over Isobel’s idealism. Getting away from Yorkshire is the _only_ chance Ethel has of escaping her past. Isobel will find a new project. Maybe she can hire Thomas as a butler. I was shocked that Violet suggested Tom as the new land agent. Of course the idea coming from her is the only possible way Robert would ever accept it. And it would make him an employee again, albeit one with a social standing much closer to Lord Grantham’s solicitor than his chauffer. Next week looks really interesting. Only one more regular episode left, plus a Christmas special and they’re introducing a new character? A member of Violet’s family is an upper class girl gone wild? That should be fun to watch. Are there any plans for a 4th series, or is the Xmas special it? I know Fellows is interesting in doing a prequel about Robert & Cora’s courtship. ---
**Author:** ![Simplicio](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c37758/32.png) [@Simplicio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Simplicio)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2012, 2:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/downton-abbey-series-three-open-spoilers/629082/60 "2012-10-31T14:51:21Z")
Ya know, if someone who was known for her complicated plans to wreck vengeance on people had announced to my face that she was going to launch a plan to wreck vengeance on me, and then stopped by a little later to mention that she thought the other footman was interested in engaging in a highly illegal and scandelous love-affair with me, I think I’d pause for a moment and consider the idea that she might be lying. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/downton-abbey-series-three-open-spoilers/629082.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/downton-abbey-series-three-open-spoilers/629082.md?page=4)